Is a Land Cruiser really better off-road than a Tacoma? My experience says the opposite..

[bkg]

RN I’m on 32s and open diffs, with 5100s, giving a 3” lift in the front, but no diff drop and I still have the stock UCAs.

I do have a TRD axle and front 7.5” clamshell with a Detroit LSD installed, both with 4.88 gears with about 20,000 miles on them. Would you say it’d be advisable to install these, or would it kill the drivability of the truck? Also would you say a LSD in the ADD front diff would be asking for trouble? It sounds like @Metcalf was saying the guys locking their IFS front had a lot more breakage. In theory the LSD should make the diff stronger, and shouldn’t be as hard on the CVs as a lunchbox locker.

Still, ideally I’d rather just have a rear locker and 32s/33s on the stock gears. I spend a good amount of time on the highway and it’s already howling at 3k rpm at 75 mph on the 4.10s on 32s. I’d appreciate your advice, thanks.

i have 4.88's w/ 285/75-16's. I will argue all day long that 5.29's would have been a better choice. The OD on the Auto is way higher than the OD on the manual... even w/ 5.29's, the cruising RPM's are almost the same as stock 5-speed w/ 4.10's/31.s

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

naw... hitrac was not more durable... smaller diff, smaller brakes, smaller bearings, steering in compression rather than extension...

But... I always liked that suspension.

Well at least they didn’t have the crappy LBJ design like on the 1G Taco.

 

[Metcalf]

It sounds we're doing different types of wheeling though. Front lockers are usually on required on difficult to extreme trails, and even then only on a few obstacles. I'm not the type to seek out tough obstacles just for the sake of it. My objective is more "touring'' than hardcore wheeling.

Also, I know you said the drivers weren't the yahoo types, but how skilled/experienced were they? In the vid I linked above in the thread, the drivers get their IFS Tacomas through the Rubicon with only 1 broken axle. You can tell they really know how to pick their lines, which of course makes all the difference, IFS or not.

Anyway, someone on Tacomaworld suggested the following mods if doing difficult trails, which address most of your points:

marlin crawler weld on lower arm tabs for reinforcement , or the JD fabrication entire lower subframe.

Upper arm pivot weld on double sheer tabs

both upper and lower aftermarket control arms with uniball / heim pivots at the spindle and frame side.

camburg spindle or weld on stock spindle reinforcements

RCV stock length axles

New steering rack (tundra/LC or custom swing steering with Saginaw box)

While you might not be doing the same things, you can draw parallels to what will happen eventually WHEN you get in a spot where you have to push it more than expected.....and how the parts will hold up over time. You might not break parts every trip like we had issues with.....but you have to ask yourself if you really want to set yourself up for issues WHEN you get into something unplanned or a little over your head. I know I wouldn't go anywhere without spare parts for early Tacoma IFS if I was using 4wd....at least a complete front axle shaft assembly....even if the front end was unlocked.

Experienced ranged from newer to people I have been wheeling with for decades now. They all had the same issues. The most experienced of them was the guy that eventually made his own 8" front diff swap, alloy inner shafts, and did custom RCV front shafts. While the front end now holds up for multiple trips, it sure makes a long of funny noises and still has a lack of steering ability. I think the RCV shafts have gone back for a rebuild already also.

The group really didn't have any issues with much of the stuff in that list.....CVs, inner shafts, and front diffs where the problems. The steering never broke that I can remember, it just didn't have much force at all with aired down tires and locker use. The turning radius was also poor.

If you have to change ALL those things just to get the IFS to kinda maybe hold in there, I still don't see the attraction. The custom set of RCV shafts was about 2500 if I remember right. Personally, I would cut the IFS out and build a nice SAS system for it.

If you want to run a Tacoma IFS by all means go ahead, I am just sharing very direct experience I had with the system over about 10 years of trail use. ?‍♂️

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

i have 4.88's w/ 285/75-16's. I will argue all day long that 5.29's would have been a better choice. The OD on the Auto is way higher than the OD on the manual... even w/ 5.29's, the cruising RPM's are almost the same as stock 5-speed w/ 4.10's/31.s

Yea I’m concerned the 4.88s would kill the drivability of this truck with the R150/V6 combo. Honestly I’m starting to wonder if having a non-SAS 4x4 is even worth it if the IFS is really that prone to breakage. In that case I might as well just have another Subaru and stick to the fire roads lol. The TW guys would flame me if they saw me saying that haha.

Having said that, I’ve found the Tacoma is really good for those trails that are just a bit too gnarly for a Subaru or similar, but not gnarled enough to require solid axles, lockers, etc. I mean at the end of the day any ladder frame truck with 4lo will do more or less the same things, up to a point. There’s nothing “magical” to any particular platform and everything’s a trade off..

A unimog is extremely durable, but good luck getting it up Pritchett Canyon..

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

While you might not be doing the same things, you can draw parallels to what will happen eventually WHEN you get in a spot where you have to push it more than expected.....and how the parts will hold up over time. You might not break parts every trip like we had issues with.....but you have to ask yourself if you really want to set yourself up for issues WHEN you get into something unplanned or a little over your head. I know I wouldn't go anywhere without spare parts for early Tacoma IFS if I was using 4wd....at least a complete front axle shaft assembly....even if the front end was unlocked.

Experienced ranged from newer to people I have been wheeling with for decades now. They all had the same issues. The most experienced of them was the guy that eventually made his own 8" front diff swap, alloy inner shafts, and did custom RCV front shafts. While the front end now holds up for multiple trips, it sure makes a long of funny noises and still has a lack of steering ability. I think the RCV shafts have gone back for a rebuild already also.

The group really didn't have any issues with much of the stuff in that list.....CVs, inner shafts, and front diffs where the problems. The steering never broke that I can remember, it just didn't have much force at all with aired down tires and locker use. The turning radius was also poor.

If you have to change ALL those things just to get the IFS to kinda maybe hold in there, I still don't see the attraction. The custom set of RCV shafts was about 2500 if I remember right. Personally, I would cut the IFS out and build a nice SAS system for it.

If you want to run a Tacoma IFS by all means go ahead, I am just sharing very direct experience I had with the system over about 10 years of trail use. ?‍♂️

I appreciate your insights, you’re just not making me feel good about getting rid of my LC haha. At the time I was tired of its land yacht driving experience and the vintage slushbox. I had to slam it into 2nd and scream up every little hill at 4K rpm. It also only averaged about 120 PSI through all 6 cylinders and drank through oil and power steering fluid. I didn’t feel like dealing with all that while paying the premium for Land Cruiser parts. But now it seems like I should’ve just stuck with it.

Also, I’m not discounting your experiences. I was just taken aback since I’ve heard multiple other accounts of people with years under their belt wheeling the Tacoma IFS while having minimal issues, or at least not on the scale your friends experienced.

Honestly I don’t even “wheel” that much anymore anyway. Maybe once every 2 months if I’m lucky. I do have a spare OEM CV and basic toolkit in the truck.

 

[tacollie]

@Ozark_Prowler maybe you're overthinking it. If you haven't started breaking a bunch of stuff yet the Tacoma may be adequate for your use. Sure a LC or SAS will be better but not it may be overkill for your use. I went through a couple CVs on open diffs between a 2002 Tacoma and 2000 4Runner over the course of 150k miles between the 2 vehicles. A SAS would have prevented that but it would have been overkill for my use. Had it happen more I would considered an axle swap.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

@Ozark_Prowler maybe you're overthinking it. If you haven't started breaking a bunch of stuff yet the Tacoma may be adequate for your use. Sure a LC or SAS will be better but not it may be overkill for your use. I went through a couple CVs on open diffs between a 2002 Tacoma and 2000 4Runner over the course of 150k miles between the 2 vehicles. A SAS would have prevented that but it would have been overkill for my use. Had it happen more I would considered an axle swap.

Yea that sounds like an acceptable amount of breakage to me. Like I said if I were doing the Rubicon every other weekend and/or driving into very remote areas regularly I would’ve stuck with the LC. There’s a reason companies like NATVEC use them for their tours out in Moab instead of a 4Runner or Tacoma.

But this thing spends more time on the highway than anything else.

 

[84FLH]

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[Ozark_Prowler]

@Metcalf I just got 255/75/17 KM3s, which weigh 54.5 lbs each, so hopefully it should hold up ok with this set up, although I would've preferred the Yokohamas, which are 5 lbs lighter. I'm also thinking of getting some softer springs that would bring the lift down to 1.5'' or so to minimize stress on the CVs.


FWIW, most of the trails I run look something like this:

 

[DaveInDenver]

I’d say it’s an apples to water buffalo comparison….

But personal preference (like manual vs auto) will have a massive impact on overall comfort and conclusion.

I’ve owned 7 tacomas and zero LC’s. I had similar thoughts when comparing my 1st gen 4Runners to my xtracab many years ago - believing the 4Runners far superior. Most of it was based on wheelbase, transmission, and ultimately, seat time.

what matters most is finding comfort and enjoyment, I’d guess.

It's absolutely a relative preference. I've never personally owned a big Cruiser wagon but have spent plenty of time in friends. I have owned an FJ40 and FJ60 (briefly) followed by my '91 mini truck and then '08 Tacoma. There was a 4th gen 4Runner in there for a while until it was clear a Forester was a better option in how we used it.

I think the best 'wheeling truck was a stock FJ40 on BFG ATs. Those are slightly scaled down tanks, point and plow. I think mini trucks and 1st gen Tacos are just so light and short wheelbase, they bounce up and over just about anything.

The 80s and 100s aren't nimble but at the end of the day you don't feel anywhere near as beat up. That's one thing I like about my heavier and larger 2nd gen Taco, it seems just a bit less jarring and comfortable.

But all that said, the first time I really saw just how good the 80 is was following them through the Rubicon. They're wide but dang they could walk. But not stock, 4" lifts and 35" tires. I was on 1.5" of lift and 33" following with mostly less drama. Front and rear lockers in my truck made a huge difference but being IFS means I'm mostly only 3-wheels on the deck. Those guys with their long coils and solid axles almost never lifted a tire much.

Which is an important thing to point out, a 79-85 truck with a solid front axle is a bit of a different beast than an 86+ truck. Even there the IFS of a 86-94 truck is reliable but not flexy like a Tacoma.

Just too many variables to make singular conclusions.

 

[gwittman]

I don't know much about the newer Landcruisers or the Tacos, but I owned a '73' FJ55 for about 15 years. It was pretty much a slug around town, but I thought it was almost nimble off-road (that was 90% of its duties). I slapped some 31 BFG AT tires and an auxiliary gas tank on it and I could not find anything that would stop it. Even with its open differentials, it could go almost anywhere.

The drivetrain and suspension where pretty much bullet proof. It would go through ignition points petty fast, but a capacitance discharge system solved that. Replacing brake wheel slaves every year was annoying, but DOT 5 brake fluid solved that. I never could find a solution for the body rust or the rubber deteriorating other than repair and replace though.

The back area was a perfect length for my wife and me to sleep inside. I built a platform that would hold our supplies and gear under it, and we could sleep on top of it. Sitting up was not possible in the bed, but plenty of room otherwise.

The bench seat was not very comfortable, but a friend had some captains seats he removed from the back of his van. I figured out a way to install them in the FJ55 and they were very comfy.

Many refer to it as the Pig, but I always call it the Tank.