Is a Land Cruiser really better off-road than a Tacoma? My experience says the opposite..

[Ozark_Prowler]

That is one sweet build. Wow.

I only plan on doing 6-7/10 trails at the most, (like Pearl Pass or Poughkeepsie Gulch at the hardest), and don’t plan to lock the front or go over skinny 33s, so I think I should be OK. There are RCV axles available for my truck for a cool $2500, so that’s always an option if I get into gnarlier stuff.

It sounds like just getting another J80 might be more cost-effective than going down that rabbit hole from what you’re saying though.. I definitely did feel the extra weight of the 80 series body. It didn’t seem to like mud or slick slopes very much, but it handled big rock steps and the like with aplomb.

I appreciate your perspective, even if I’m a bit disheartened by your jaundiced view of this generation of mini truck. Perhaps an older solid axle Hilux/Pickup with a 3RZ/5VZ swap would really be the sweet spot.

Yes, the next generation IFS is a bit better.....but that is in a lot larger vehicle.

I love the wheelbase and axle width on my #LX45 ( stock 80 series), with the pinched FJ45-esk pickup body ( doors parallel for a 56" wide cabin ), it's an amazing fit on the trail. An 80 series body does feel like it has a big booty, but unless your talking a regular cab Tacoma and no shell, it isn't THAT much larger.

View attachment 769748

 

[Metcalf]

That is one sweet build. Wow.

I only plan on doing 6-7/10 trails at the most, (like Pearl Pass or Poughkeepsie Gulch at the hardest), and don’t plan to lock the front or go over skinny 33s, so I think I should be OK. There are RCV axles available for my truck for a cool $2500, so that’s always an option if I get into gnarlier stuff.

It sounds like just getting another J80 might be more cost-effective than going down that rabbit hole from what you’re saying though.. I definitely did feel the extra weight of the 80 series body. It didn’t seem to like mud or slick slopes very much, but it handled big rock steps and the like with aplomb.

I appreciate your perspective, even if I’m a bit disheartened by your jaundiced view of this generation of mini truck. Perhaps an older solid axle Hilux/Pickup with a 3RZ/5VZ swap would really be the sweet spot.

If someone made me build a Tacoma, I would solid axle swap it. I think that would be less work overall and you get the nicer engine and interior options in a bit newer vehicle. I think there is some interesting stuff that could be done with a solid axle swap to get it a little lower than most, but it would definitely take a bit of extra fab. I'd honestly even consider radius arms after getting some time on the J80 platform for a few years now. As long as you keep the height down ( frame mount pivot equal to axle center ), they work better than most people think they will. They haven't slowed me down.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

If someone made me build a Tacoma, I would solid axle swap it. I think that would be less work overall and you get the nicer engine and interior options in a bit newer vehicle. I think there is some interesting stuff that could be done with a solid axle swap to get it a little lower than most, but it would definitely take a bit of extra fab. I'd honestly even consider radius arms after getting some time on the J80 platform for a few years now. As long as you keep the height down ( frame mount pivot equal to axle center ), they work better than most people think they will. They haven't slowed me down.

I’d think it’d be easier to engine swap an older Pickup or 80 series than to SAS a newer Taco. I really think that frame and undercarriage is a masterpiece on the 80 series.

 

[bkg]

Well regardless I think they really beefed up the IFS for the next gen of Tacoma. You are making me regret getting rid of the 80 series though. It just felt like kind of a boat anchor in the woods compared to the Tacoma, which is almost more like a SxS.

other than a larger clamshell, no... not at all accurate.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

other than a larger clamshell, no... not at all accurate.

I must’ve been mistaken. Like you said they changed to an 8” diff, but I thought the CVs were a little beefier as well. Perhaps not though.

I’d actually be curious on your opinions on the durability of the coil springs Toyota IFS. Is it worth investing in RCV axles, UCAs, etc.?

 

[bkg]

I must’ve been mistaken. Like you said they changed to an 8” diff, but I thought the CVs were a little beefier as well. Perhaps not though.

I’d actually be curious on your opinions on the durability of the coil springs Toyota IFS. Is it worth investing in RCV axles, UCAs, etc.?

depends on need.

Would *I* put $5-10k into IFS? Hell no. For a DD/light wheeler, c/o's,UCA's, diff drop, sane driving and sane expectations are just fine. Until last month, we had 3 lifted IFS rigs and the SAS'd tacoma. Sold two of the IFS rigs, so down to the xtracab and doublecab...

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

depends on need.

Would *I* put $5-10k into IFS? Hell no. For a DD/light wheeler, c/o's,UCA's, diff drop, sane driving and sane expectations are just fine. Until last month, we had 3 lifted IFS rigs and the SAS'd tacoma. Sold two of the IFS rigs, so down to the xtracab and doublecab...

RN I’m on 32s and open diffs, with 5100s, giving a 3” lift in the front, but no diff drop and I still have the stock UCAs.

I do have a TRD axle and front 7.5” clamshell with a Detroit LSD installed, both with 4.88 gears with about 20,000 miles on them. Would you say it’d be advisable to install these, or would it kill the drivability of the truck? Also would you say a LSD in the ADD front diff would be asking for trouble? It sounds like @Metcalf was saying the guys locking their IFS front had a lot more breakage. In theory the LSD should make the diff stronger, and shouldn’t be as hard on the CVs as a lunchbox locker.

Still, ideally I’d rather just have a rear locker and 32s/33s on the stock gears. I spend a good amount of time on the highway and it’s already howling at 3k rpm at 75 mph on the 4.10s on 32s. I’d appreciate your advice, thanks.

 

[Metcalf]

I’d think it’d be easier to engine swap an older Pickup or 80 series than to SAS a newer Taco. I really think that frame and undercarriage is a masterpiece on the 80 series.

I guess it depends what you want. Sticking the engine in is kinda easy.....but it's all the small stuff that you end up wanting.....cruise, AC, etc that really never make an engine swap feel 'done' to me. You will also be fighting having an older truck in general. The old solid axle toyotas are super vehicles, but they have their own set of quirks and issues that you have to sort though.

 

[Metcalf]

RN I’m on 32s and open diffs, with 5100s, giving a 3” lift in the front, but no diff drop and I still have the stock UCAs.

I do have a TRD axle and front 7.5” clamshell with a Detroit LSD installed, both with 4.88 gears with about 20,000 miles on them. Would you say it’d be advisable to install these, or would it kill the drivability of the truck? Also would you say a LSD in the ADD front diff would be asking for trouble? It sounds like @Metcalf was saying the guys locking their IFS front had a lot more breakage. In theory the LSD should make the diff stronger, and shouldn’t be as hard on the CVs as a lunchbox locker.

Still, ideally I’d rather just have a rear locker and 32s/33s on the stock gears. I spend a good amount of time on the highway and it’s already howling at 3k rpm at 75 mph on the 4.10s on 32s. I’d appreciate your advice, thanks.

All of them had ARB front lockers. They tried not to use them to keep the front axles alive ( and to be able to steer with the super weak IFS rack steering ). That only works to a point though, eventually, you are going to need that front locker for overall vehicle capability or you are going to be winching a lot of stuff. Leaving the front diff open didn't seem to solve all the issues either....still had breakage even with the front diff open ( mainly the issue where the front tire was getting pushed/pulled into things while trying to steer. That still took out the front outer CV more than once that I can remember.

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

Engine swap is so much more intensive than an axle swap. With an engine, there are so many fine points that add up to make the whole package.

Yes, swapping an axle takes a lot of planning too. Thinking outside the box helps. You just have to imagine what you want and then picture that suspension and in the confines of the vehicle. Rear suspensions are vastly simple compared to front suspension because there is a lot less stuff out back. To Brennan's point, ride height, it is difficult to keep ride height low and still maintain off road ability. I was able to pull this off many years ago with a 2007 Tacoma. With the 37" tires it had at the time, the frame height was only 20 inches. Yes, it had limited up travel, but that was the trade off. It still performed exellent on the trail and was safe enough to become the owner's daily driver. He has since put 40's on it.

Back to the original comparison between the Taco and the LC. It reminds me of being a kid in MN. When we moved to CA, I noticed many more 4 wheel drive vehicles than there were in snowy Minnesota. When I asked my grandad why this was, his reply astonished me - "because with a four wheel drive you just get more stuck." So light and nimble vs big and tough. It's kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Impact gun vs torque wrench.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

All of them had ARB front lockers. They tried not to use them to keep the front axles alive ( and to be able to steer with the super weak IFS rack steering ). That only works to a point though, eventually, you are going to need that front locker for overall vehicle capability or you are going to be winching a lot of stuff. Leaving the front diff open didn't seem to solve all the issues either....still had breakage even with the front diff open ( mainly the issue where the front tire was getting pushed/pulled into things while trying to steer. That still took out the front outer CV more than once that I can remember.

It sounds we're doing different types of wheeling though. Front lockers are usually on required on difficult to extreme trails, and even then only on a few obstacles. I'm not the type to seek out tough obstacles just for the sake of it. My objective is more "touring'' than hardcore wheeling.

Also, I know you said the drivers weren't the yahoo types, but how skilled/experienced were they? In the vid I linked above in the thread, the drivers get their IFS Tacomas through the Rubicon with only 1 broken axle. You can tell they really know how to pick their lines, which of course makes all the difference, IFS or not.

Anyway, someone on Tacomaworld suggested the following mods if doing difficult trails, which address most of your points:

marlin crawler weld on lower arm tabs for reinforcement , or the JD fabrication entire lower subframe.

Upper arm pivot weld on double sheer tabs

both upper and lower aftermarket control arms with uniball / heim pivots at the spindle and frame side.

camburg spindle or weld on stock spindle reinforcements

RCV stock length axles

New steering rack (tundra/LC or custom swing steering with Saginaw box)

 

[Stoffregen Motorsports]

I saw a bone stock 1989 Toyota 4x4 go through the Rubicon once, so yes it can be done, but a built rig would have been a lot more comfortable.

Hell, I even saw a VW bus go through the Rubicon. Did you guys ever hear of that one?

Interesting idea to install a Saginaw box on an IFS Tacoma. That would solve a few problems.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

FWIW I posted a similar thread on TE and the response were basically all "you'll be fine unless doing hardcore trails, the IFS is surprisingly durable", etc. (I realise they might be a little biased).

I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong or question their experiences, but it can be hard to form a deifintive conclusion with so many opinions and anecdotes out there.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

I saw a bone stock 1989 Toyota 4x4 go through the Rubicon once, so yes it can be done, but a built rig would have been a lot more comfortable.

Hell, I even saw a VW bus go through the Rubicon. Did you guys ever hear of that one?

Interesting idea to install a Saginaw box on an IFS Tacoma. That would solve a few problems.

The pre-95 IFS was a more durable torsion bar design if I'm not mistaken, although it was stiffer than the later coilover designs.

 

[bkg]

The pre-95 IFS was a more durable torsion bar design if I'm not mistaken, although it was stiffer than the later coilover designs.

naw... hitrac was not more durable... smaller diff, smaller brakes, smaller bearings, steering in compression rather than extension...

But... I always liked that suspension.