Is a Rubicon worth it???

[JPK]

I believe the Rubicon is always worth it, unless the end goal is a rebuilt rock crawler with a new multi speed transfer case, D60 or bigger axles..., ultimately a trailer queen.

For the TJ/LJ's you get aluminum 16" wheels, a 4:1 Xcase, D44 front and rear, 4.10 gears, rear limited slip and front and rear air lockers in the TJ/LJ, rear disks in lieu of drums for some years (?)

For JK's the differences are 17" aluminum wheels, 4:1 Xcase, D44 front (all have D44 rears,) 4.10 gears, electricly controled sway bar disconnect - manual or electric disconnects are essential for rock crawling but also great for off road ride, and electric lockers front and rear.

JK's ride a hell of a lot better than TJ/LJ's due to suspension design, accomodate larger tires stock or with any given lift height, are easier to lift...

A TJ with 4.10's and 35" tires is going to be a dog. My LJ Rubicon with 33's and 4.10's could use re-gearing because of its roof rack and added skid weight, it'd be fine without the added skids or roof rack. 35's really require re-gearing to 4.56's or 4.88's to maintain reasonable highway performance. I believe that 33"X10" or so tires are about optimal for TJ/LJ's anyway. The 255/85X16" BFG KM2 MT's would be a fine tires at about 33"x10".

I would inspect every candidate and crawl under, looking for the tell tales of lots of offroading, like scratches, dents and gravel or mud on top of the skids - and then steer clear of a candidate that shows more than a few signs of having been off road.

When weeding out candidates don't forget to test the 4wd, both high and low ranges, and the lockers too.

I would try to find a soccer mom driven, mall crawling JK four door Rubicon, it would be the perfect candidate.

JPK

 

[Metcalf]

opps

 

[Lawrence]

Given your budget and your recent possible find, it appears that you're looking at TJs. Aside from 16" wheels, a Rubicon will give you D44 front, 4.10 gears, lockers, the 241 transfer case, and hood stickers. These are good options and worth the extra $ if you plan on leaving it stock, but not that valuable if you plan on modifying your TJ.

As for the comments on finding a soccer mom's Jeep with no signs of having been offroad, I would take that with a grain of salt. There are a lot of people who think that owning a vehicle is about putting gas in and turning the key on, and they don't even know what an oil filter is. Besides, there is nothing wrong with taking a Jeep offroad, after all that's what they were built for and you can always tell if a rig has been abused or not. My TJ has been offroad and I can tell you that it has been better maintained than most mall crawlers, and I can speculate that it is true for a lot of rigs on this forum. Most of us take pride in our rigs and maintain them accordingly.

Now about modded or not, it is the eternal question. It is always cheaper to buy it built than building it yourself. However, you don't get the gratification if that's what you're into, and you may not like all the mods the PO did. It is a personal preference really.

 

[Nickell80]

I have never seen/heard somebody say "I really wish I hadn't bought the Rubi, it's way more capable than I need it to be" :sombrero:

 

[JPK]

I have never seen/heard somebody say "I really wish I hadn't bought the Rubi, it's way more capable than I need it to be" :sombrero:

Ain't that the truth!

Regarding Lawrence's comments about well cared for Jeeps that have been off road, sure there are those few, and then there are those many which face the same issues that the soccer mom driven Jeeps face - potentially less mindful owners and lapsing maintenance - but they've also had the s--t beaten or rattled out of them too.

You can always check service records to insure that oil has been changed at reasonable intervals, diffs serviced on time, etc,..., but reading the difference between mindful off road use and mindless off road use can be difficult. Even lots of mindful offroad use loosens a Jeep up, to its detriment.

Also, Lawrence missed the rear D44 (some TJ's came with D35's) and rear limited slip which is a TJ/LJ Rubicon standard feature as well as the wider flares.

Here's a TJ buyers guide which gives specs and what to look out for, from JP magazine: http://www.jpmagazine.com/featuredvehicles/154_1001_jeep_wrangler_tj_buyers_guide/index.html

I have an LJ and a JKU, my wife has an JKU as well. You'd be better off in a JK or JKU if you can swing the price.

JPK

 

[Metcalf]

Just remember that lockers just get you stuck farther from home
Don't forget the winch and recovery gear.

The belly skid plate on the TJ Rubicons is terrible. The AEV Tummy Tucker is one of the best options for max clearance without a body lift. The install is a little tight however. It makes a DRASTIC difference in breakover angle and the belly is very smooth which helps also.

255/85r16 tires will fit with only 1-2" of lift and a small bumpstop spacer. I think its one of the best 'minimal modification' tires sizes for the TJ. On the Rubi, especially the 6pd, you can use the stock 4.10 gears no problem. They also work well on the stock wheels. You can run 'bent' lower from control arms for a more steering angle. Spacers also work, but I am not a big fan. 255s are not for people who like to drive fast in corners, the 85 section height does cause a little tire lean/deflection.

The fuel tank is the other annoying part of the TJ. You pretty much need to drive around the clearance loss and get a nice skidplate. The Savvy aluminum unit is pretty light and provides a nice smooth bottom.

Just a few thoughts....

 

[Lawrence]

Regarding Lawrence's comments about well cared for Jeeps that have been off road, sure there are those few, [snip] but they've also had the s--t beaten or rattled out of them too.

[snip] reading the difference between mindful off road use and mindless off road use can be difficult. Even lots of mindful offroad use loosens a Jeep up, to its detriment.

Our Jeeps have been offroad and there is nothing lose about them, not a squeak nor rattle, everything is properly checked and tended to. I also do my own maintenance, so service records are not always the gospel. Jeeps are very easy to figure out and you can easily tell which ones to stay away from, it's not that hard.

Also, Lawrence missed the rear D44 (some TJ's came with D35's) and rear limited slip which is a TJ/LJ Rubicon standard feature as well as the wider flares.

The rear D44 is not specific to the Rubicons, it can be found in many Sports and Saharas. Wider flares yes (1"), but the Saharas also had the 4" flares. I did forget the limited slip, but hardly a valuable option, and I also forgot to mention the black diamond plate rockers.

I have an LJ and a JKU, my wife has an JKU as well. You'd be better off in a JK or JKU if you can swing the price.

For us it's the LJ, although it helps that it has a Hemi under the hood.

Regarding your earlier comment:

I would inspect every candidate and crawl under, looking for the tell tales of lots of offroading, like scratches, dents and gravel or mud on top of the skids - and then steer clear of a candidate that shows more than a few signs of having been off road.

I would try to find a soccer mom driven, mall crawling JK four door Rubicon, it would be the perfect candidate.

I hope that you don't miss soccer practice and that you periodically flex some at the mall, or else you may never be able to sell your Jeeps if they have more than a few signs of offroad use.

There are many ways to go about it within the OP's budget, TJ/LJ or JK/JKU, Rubicon or not, built or not... There's no right or wrong way, just a matter of finding the right Jeep for the right use.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I can tell you that a good solid TJ with a sway bar disconect system, and an automatic trany can walk through so much it is amazing. Heck my Grand walks through everything with the sway bars disconnected, AND I am far more comfortable around town...(and far heavier than a tj I must admit, Of course if you are thinking JK, then you may as well get a full size ford Pickup, JK's weigh WAY too much!).

I would also posit that a simple ARB in the rear will get you MOST places that two lockers can get you. So that is important to consider as well.

You can pick up a nice TJ, I would say go with the Sahara model (before the changed the lable) and toss in a locker in the rear if you really need it.

Why do I tell you to not get the Rubi.

One, you are going to tow the jeep, and you said behind a truck, so I am going to assume you are talking about flat tow. That is a lot of wear on the components, like the gears etc.

Two, you are asking us if the Rubi is worth it. Most folks who want the capability of a rubi already knew before they ever even saw one that OH YEAH They are worth it! So, yeah, they are worth it, IF you are going to use it. If you are not needing lockers but once a year, maybe less, then skip the rubi. Put a Hi-Lift jack on there and use it like a winch that one time per year.

Last thought for you, I think you have to make up your mind and go with what feels good. If you want a Rubi, then the heck with me an any other descenter, but if it is not that big of a deal, then I say skip the Rubi and move on.

Best of luck, and safe travels!

 

[Ford Prefect]

Just remember that lockers just get you stuck farther from home
Don't forget the winch and recovery gear.

The belly skid plate on the TJ Rubicons is terrible. The AEV Tummy Tucker is one of the best options for max clearance without a body lift. The install is a little tight however. It makes a DRASTIC difference in breakover angle and the belly is very smooth which helps also.

255/85r16 tires will fit with only 1-2" of lift and a small bumpstop spacer. I think its one of the best 'minimal modification' tires sizes for the TJ. On the Rubi, especially the 6pd, you can use the stock 4.10 gears no problem. They also work well on the stock wheels. You can run 'bent' lower from control arms for a more steering angle. Spacers also work, but I am not a big fan. 255s are not for people who like to drive fast in corners, the 85 section height does cause a little tire lean/deflection.

The fuel tank is the other annoying part of the TJ. You pretty much need to drive around the clearance loss and get a nice skidplate. The Savvy aluminum unit is pretty light and provides a nice smooth bottom.

Just a few thoughts....

You know, if you want to build a more capable rig, I think the best thing you can do is get a set of Highline (either AEV or Genright) tube fenders front and rear. Then put on the belly up/tummy tucker style skid with a 1"bl and 1"mml. From that alone you can run 37's (of course the stock axles would likely break soon.) I think that set up with a nice 35" tire, and the above stated JKS disco's would be able to make for an absolutely superb rig off road. If I had the money, I would do it for sure.

 

[JPK]

Our Jeeps have been offroad and there is nothing lose about them, not a squeak nor rattle, everything is properly checked and tended to. I also do my own maintenance, so service records are not always the gospel. Jeeps are very easy to figure out and you can easily tell which ones to stay away from, it's not that hard.



The rear D44 is not specific to the Rubicons, it can be found in many Sports and Saharas. Wider flares yes (1"), but the Saharas also had the 4" flares. I did forget the limited slip, but hardly a valuable option, and I also forgot to mention the black diamond plate rockers.



For us it's the LJ, although it helps that it has a Hemi under the hood.

Regarding your earlier comment:



I hope that you don't miss soccer practice and that you periodically flex some at the mall, or else you may never be able to sell your Jeeps if they have more than a few signs of offroad use.

There are many ways to go about it within the OP's budget, TJ/LJ or JK/JKU, Rubicon or not, built or not... There's no right or wrong way, just a matter of finding the right Jeep for the right use.

Lawrence,

I don't doubt that you take good care of your Jeeps. But as you pointed out there are those who don't. Within that large pool there are those who aren't soccer moms and take their Jeeps offroad and some beat the crap out of them. I think you know that its not so easy as you claim to distinguish mindful offroad use and mindless offroad use when looking at used candidates. But its damned easy to spot a Jeep that seen offroad use vs one that has seen the malls and school parking lots. Not too many soccer moms are changing their own oil, servicing their own differentials, etc. So if the service was done there will be records, especially if done at a dealer.

Since you service your own Jeeps and take such good care then you must also recognize that a steady diet of offroad travel, even limited to gravel and two tracks leads inevitably to higher and more frequent service requirements, more wear and tear on every component. Shocks, springs, u joints... the list is as long as the list of components of the Jeep or truck or trailer or ....

Nothing could be worse than the OP or anyone else buying a money pit. Avoiding the money pit is easy, don't buy a Jeep thats been offroad and don't buy one without service records.

The rear D44 wasn't on every TJ, but its on every Rubicon, every LJ as well as 4.0l TJ's, the front D44 is limited to Rubicons.

The 1" wider flares allow 33"x10.5" tires to remain under the flares, required in some states.

I find the limited slip to be quite useful, especially in snow and rain and especially on road but also offroad where traction is intermittent and poor but too good for lockers.

I always hope that when I sell a Jeep that I find a buyer anxious to buy, impatient, unaware of potential pitfals, unwilling to crawl under and take a look. I hope that they are razzed by the aftermarket bumpers and tire carrier, the winch and the more capable stance of a reasonably lifted Jeep, the aggressive tires and the businesslike rack. Not all buyers are razzed or lost in the dream of getting off road better than they could with a stock Jeep. The smart ones go looking for a mall crawler with good service records.

I wish my LJ had the 4.6 stroker in it, I think that would be enough though a Hemi or 350 would be sweet. It's going to my daughter soon though when she turns 16, and she doesn't need the extra power, I hope! My JKU has the 5.7 VVT Hemi and I can be reminded at will by driving my wife's JKU Rubicon (the perfect example of what the OP should be looking for) of what the Hemi does for the JKU.

BTW, is your LJ an AEV Hemi Jeep? Were you at Easter Jeep Safari in Moab last week? I ran a trail, Steel Bender, on Monday with the AEV group and there was a silver LJ with a Hemi in it in the group. You?

As far as the right Jeep for the OP, well, imo there are a couple of right Jeeps but a plethora of wrong Jeeps. And one best selection, imo. But that is his choice to make, hopefully based on the imput he asked for and all have given.

JPK

 

[Lawrence]

Lawrence,
I don't doubt that you take good care of your Jeeps. But as you pointed out there are those who don't. [snip] Nothing could be worse than the OP or anyone else buying a money pit. Avoiding the money pit is easy, don't buy a Jeep thats been offroad and don't buy one without service records.

I am glad you didn't think I was picking on you and I do agree with you. However, I also believe there are good Jeeps out there that have been wheeled. Buying one built is a lot cheaper than building it yourself, but there can definitely be pitfalls if you're not careful. I was just trying to give the OP another point of view and broaden his search parameters.

I always hope that when I sell a Jeep that I find a buyer anxious to buy, impatient, unaware of potential pitfals, unwilling to crawl under and take a look. I hope that they are razzed by the aftermarket bumpers and tire carrier, the winch and the more capable stance of a reasonably lifted Jeep, the aggressive tires and the businesslike rack.

Got a good chuckle out of that one. Funny stuff, but so true for most buyers.

I wish my LJ had the 4.6 stroker in it, I think that would be enough though a Hemi or 350 would be sweet. It's going to my daughter soon though when she turns 16, and she doesn't need the extra power, I hope!

If you have the 42RLE auto, I would suggest 4.88 gears with your 33s. I have that combo on the TJ and it makes it fun to drive. Of course, there is not substitute for V8 power.

BTW, is your LJ an AEV Hemi Jeep? Were you at Easter Jeep Safari in Moab last week? I ran a trail, Steel Bender, on Monday with the AEV group and there was a silver LJ with a Hemi in it in the group. You?

Not an AEV Jeep, they make good products but I like other products better. Unfortunately, I could not take any time off this spring, so it wasn't me and my LJ is black.

 

[JPK]

I can see by the limited flex those coil overs give you that your LJ is at least mall ready!

Who did your Hemi conversion or provided the kit/parts/pieces?

JPK

 

[Lawrence]

For a turnkey conversion, my vote goes to Burnsville Offroad, very good shop and local to me.

If you plan on doing it yourself, call Tony or Chris Squire @ http://www.hotwireauto.com. They are a tremendous resource and offer a complete package to do the conversion. They will answer all of your questions and can walk you through just about anything, really good folks.

 

[MOAK]

Thank you for the reply. I have found a 2004 Rubicon with 99000miles. It looks to be in excellent condition. They are asking $14500 with a 5 year 100000 warrenty. It has a lift and brandnew 35 inch tires. I am not crazy about that large of tires and lift.It is at a large dealership chain. I have not been able to find any Rubicons that cheap. Even a 2003 Sport is $16000. We have such a great economy down here all the toys are expensive.

I would stay away from dealerships, & find one that is basically stock. I doubt they will honor that kind of warranty.

 

[Capt Eddie]

I was scared of the lift and big tires. I have found another Rubicon. 2010 6 speed hardtop, 18000 miles. They started at 26900. Internet price of 24900. Local paper now has it listed at 21995. NADA list it at 28979. It is the wrong color but for a 6K savings I can live with the Orange color. I will be contacting the dealer tomorrow to see if it a TYPO or bait and switch. I will know tomorrow.