Is the FZJ80 worth it in today’s market?

[Tex68w]

For those thinking about purchasing a neglected 80. Here's what to estimate for decent baseline and refresh. Numbers are estimated parts cost only/parts+labor.
Front axle rebuild: $200/$1000
Oil Pump Gasket/Dizzy ORing/Front main seal/Valve Cover Gasket: $100/$1200
PHH+ Temp Control Valve + All hoses: $400/$1000
Radiator replacement: $300/$500
Brake Booster (seiken): $375/ $600
Front seat recover: $1200
Steering wheel recover: $100/$300
Paint: A lot

THIS!!!

We sold our triple locked 80 five years ago but before I did I pretty much did all those things listed above to it. It’s a labor of love and as cool as it was/looked my heart just wasn’t in it anymore so it went on down the road. I love the classics, even the so called modern ones like the 80 Series but after restoring many of them over the years there are very few I’d still be interested in owning going forward.

 

[nickw]

yep, old trucks need a dedicated owner. I love old Jeeps and know where to find good parts but if I owned an old Land Cruiser I'd have no idea where to start. At the moment my best TJR parts source is the extra one in the driveway with 400K kms on it. If you want an old vehicle you need to be collecting good parts. You definitely need to own a garage or at least a carport.

On the old vehicle reliable as an expo vehicle I take exception. Give me a 1969 F250 with a straight 6, 4 speed any day over any brand new diesel automatic pickup and I'd bet the 1969 will have fewer issues, definitely cheaper issues.

Super cool truck! I had a clean 1996 F150, manual with 4.9 straight 6,...that thing purred and was a lot of fun to drive.

You'll probably be constantly chasing issues on any rig 40+ yrs old vs a newer diesel that may (or may not) give you xxxxK trouble free miles then things can hit the fan, so agree with you there as long as you can fix stuff on your own....I don't think most folks could tolerate older rigs like that even though they were simple and mechanically robust.

 

[SixLug]

Why would you have to tear down the motor? Did you buy one with a blown head gasket?

I don't know if I would call a head gasket "tearing down the motor". But from my research, the 200k-225k mileage mark is when they are most prone to let go. Mine is fine right now, but I budgeted for the work for peace of mind. And again, a few I looked at that were twice the price STILL didn't have a record of it being done, so I would have had to do it on those too. I don't want to question it in the back of my mind on a long trip, especially with wife and kids on board.

 

[MOAK]

Interesting thread with interesting opinions expressed. Here are my 3 cents worth. An 80 is not just a vehicle. If you’re not into it, there’s no sense keeping it. We have had our 96 LX450 for nearly a decade and with 350,000 miles it has only broken down once, and that was my fault. Big time my fault. The 80 series Landcruiser was engineered & designed to last half a million miles with proper maintenance. Servicing the front axle every 100-120,000 miles and pulling the head every 150-175,000 miles is considered a part of proper maintenance along with all the other normal PM procedures. All in all, a small price to pay for reliability. It’s been said that when you retire you ought to have a few serious hobbies. The 80, as with any old mechanical thing is a great hobby. It sits in our carriage house, tethered to a battery tender, just waiting for its weekly drive and chafing at the bit for the next long tour. I’ll admit, that early on I was a bit apprehensive about taking it on our 7-10,000 mile tours. Now that I know the vehicle, I’ve no trouble hooking up to our trailer and just going. And go we do, to some of the most inaccessible campsites in the lower 48. If & when we ever come near the half million mile mark, I would consider rebuilding the engine & transmission as just another scheduled preventative maintenance procedure.

 

[plh]

This is one of the cheapest 1997 Land Cruisers auctioned in the last month.

1997 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80

Bid for the chance to own a 1997 Toyota Land Cruiser FZJ80 at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #55,499.

bringatrailer.com

I certainly don't believe that BaT sets market pricing.

 

[nickw]

Interesting thread with interesting opinions expressed. Here are my 3 cents worth. An 80 is not just a vehicle. If you’re not into it, there’s no sense keeping it. We have had our 96 LX450 for nearly a decade and with 350,000 miles it has only broken down once, and that was my fault. Big time my fault. The 80 series Landcruiser was engineered & designed to last half a million miles with proper maintenance. Servicing the front axle every 100-120,000 miles and pulling the head every 150-175,000 miles is considered a part of proper maintenance along with all the other normal PM procedures. All in all, a small price to pay for reliability. It’s been said that when you retire you ought to have a few serious hobbies. The 80, as with any old mechanical thing is a great hobby. It sits in our carriage house, tethered to a battery tender, just waiting for its weekly drive and chafing at the bit for the next long tour. I’ll admit, that early on I was a bit apprehensive about taking it on our 7-10,000 mile tours. Now that I know the vehicle, I’ve no trouble hooking up to our trailer and just going. And go we do, to some of the most inaccessible campsites in the lower 48. If & when we ever come near the half million mile mark, I would consider rebuilding the engine & transmission as just another scheduled preventative maintenance procedure.

I've heard comments about design life over the years, 15 years, 25 years, 500k, etc...is there an official Toyota stance on that? I've always found that a bit interesting considering the wide range of environments they are used, obviously 500k in Africa is different than 500k motoring around London.

The majority of MTBO and B10/B50 stuff I've seen has been engine related, like the 5.9 Cummins B50 = 350,000 miles but that has some fairly robust assumptions based on hours and average speeds...based on my research puts hours in the 8-10,000 hr range, which is about right for higher speed diesel engines

 

[MOAK]

I've heard comments about design life over the years, 15 years, 25 years, 500k, etc...is there an official Toyota stance on that? I've always found that a bit interesting considering the wide range of environments they are used, obviously 500k in Africa is different than 500k motoring around London.

The majority of MTBO and B10/B50 stuff I've seen has been engine related, like the 5.9 Cummins B50 = 350,000 miles but that has some fairly robust assumptions based on hours and average speeds...based on my research puts hours in the 8-10,000 hr range, which is about right for higher speed diesel engines

“High speed Diesel engine” is a bit of an oxymoron, unless you’re comparing them to steam engines, as their power band is generally between 1250 & 1750 rpm, depending on flavor. The sweet spot power band of the 4.5 I6 gasser is about 2100 to 3100. The engine & ensuing drivetrain of any vehicle do not care where they are operated, as long as they are operated within the design and specification parameters. To answer your question, yes, a decade or so ago, the later 80 series design & engineering teams stated the half million mile remark, off the record. This may explain why some pristine and well maintained high mileage (200,000 & up) 80 series are fetching $ 25,000 and more. It is not unusual seeing them listed for $40,000. I’ve been offered 20 for mine & it is not pristine, it’s just clean. ??

 

[nickw]

“High speed Diesel engine” is a bit of an oxymoron, unless you’re comparing them to steam engines, as their power band is generally between 1250 & 1750 rpm, depending on flavor. The sweet spot power band of the 4.5 I6 gasser is about 2100 to 3100. The engine & ensuing drivetrain of any vehicle do not care where they are operated, as long as they are operated within the design and specification parameters. To answer your question, yes, the later 80 series design & engineering teams stated the half million mile remark, off the record. This may explain why some pristine and well maintained high mileage (200,000 & up) 80 series are fetching $ 25,000 and more. It is not unusual seeing them listed for $40,000. I’ve been offered 20 for mine & it is not pristine, it’s just clean. ??

High speed diesels....there are low speed ones too, just qualifying my comment of the 8-10k hours.

Like I said, I don't know where the 500k number came from, always thought it was folklore since most design verbiage references things like MTBO, MTBF, B50, etc. I was just curious if there was any hard data or an actual quote from Toyota. When I had my FJ40 and was on IH8MUD I heard a lot of the same design parameters statements but never really believed any of it....not to say they are not overbuilt or designed for a hard life, I just never saw it in actual Toyota literature....maybe it exists?

 

[RiverCityDave]

Yeh I'd like to say I could do most of it myself but I'm not sure I trust myself to overhaul the cooling system or replace a valve cover gasket without making some dumb mistake and losing coolant or oil pressure though. Maybe I'm just psyching myself out though. In the past I've preferred to drop the car at the shop and not worry about it, but that may have to change now.

5-10k seems pretty steep for baseline if you're doing the work yourself, unless the truck needs a top end rebuild? In any case, I'll have to space out the work a bit with my budget. Cooling system is my first priority.

The cooling system is not at all complex. I completely replaced every hose, the radiator, and the water pump in a nice afternoon of work. The valve cover gasket is genuinely a 1 banana job. There is a write up of every single possible job on the Mud forum, usually with photos.

I grew up as a mechanic, but I still feel confident that most of it is something you can handle.

 

[MOAK]

High speed diesels....there are low speed ones too, just qualifying my comment of the 8-10k hours.

Like I said, I don't know where the 500k number came from, always thought it was folklore since most design verbiage references things like MTBO, MTBF, B50, etc. I was just curious if there was any hard data or an actual quote from Toyota. When I had my FJ40 and was on IH8MUD I heard a lot of the same design parameters statements but never really believed any of it....not to say they are not overbuilt or designed for a hard life, I just never saw it in actual Toyota literature....maybe it exists?

Off the record, yes. There’s a guy out in the San Fran area that was a Toyota engineer, he drives a pristine 80 series and has often spoken ‘ off the record ‘ in different feature articles that they are built to go half a million. I’m not sure what you mean by high speed Diesel engines unless you are comparing them to the prime movers that the railroads use, in which case they operate at right around 1,000 RPMs. The DD series of engines, loved 1250- 1500rpms. The Volvo engines loved 1100- 1400 RPMs.. even the old DT466 naturally aspirated operated at 1700- 2150 rpms. The Cummins you referenced is about the same. Anything more the operator was just blowing fuel out the stack.

 

[nickw]

Off the record, yes. There’s a guy out in the San Fran area that was a Toyota engineer, he drives a pristine 80 series and has often spoken ‘ off the record ‘ in different feature articles that they are built to go half a million. I’m not sure what you mean by high speed Diesel engines unless you are comparing them to the prime movers that the railroads use, in which case they operate at right around 1,000 RPMs. The DD series of engines, loved 1250- 1500rpms. The Volvo engines loved 1100- 1400 RPMs.. even the old DT466 naturally aspirated operated at 1700- 2150 rpms. The Cummins you referenced is about the same. Anything more the operator was just blowing fuel out the stack.

General consensus is it's hearsay:

25 Year Engineering service life.

So the 25 year minimum engineering service life of a Cruiser is thrown around quite a lot on the forum and in reviews and I believe it to be absolutely true, however, has anyone got any actual proof from Toyota that this is a design mandate? Or is it all just hearsay and speculation that they...

forum.ih8mud.com

I've always known high speed diesels to be 1000 RPM+

 

[XJLI]

General consensus is it's hearsay:

25 Year Engineering service life.

So the 25 year minimum engineering service life of a Cruiser is thrown around quite a lot on the forum and in reviews and I believe it to be absolutely true, however, has anyone got any actual proof from Toyota that this is a design mandate? Or is it all just hearsay and speculation that they...

forum.ih8mud.com

The service life for anything is infinite provided you keep throwing money and parts at it.

 

[tacollie]

General consensus is it's hearsay:

25 Year Engineering service life.

So the 25 year minimum engineering service life of a Cruiser is thrown around quite a lot on the forum and in reviews and I believe it to be absolutely true, however, has anyone got any actual proof from Toyota that this is a design mandate? Or is it all just hearsay and speculation that they...

forum.ih8mud.com

Even if it wasn't hearsay the newest fj80 in the US is 24 years old.

 

[phsycle]

As @XJLI said, you can keep anything going. Typically, it’s not a longevity problem, but a money problem.

I mean, I can honestly say I’ve seen as many series and D1 LR’s on the road as 40’s, 60’s and 80’s.

 

[nickw]

Even if it wasn't hearsay the newest fj80 in the US is 24 years old.

That's the bigger issue IMO....