Is the FZJ80 worth it in today’s market?

[Ozark_Prowler]

I think that there is no particular thing that makes the 80 series reliable, its all of it. Sure a Cummins from the same era probably will probably be less maintenance heavy and run longer, but hows the interior on that truck, how many rattles does it have? Sure the 4.0 in the Jeep is a fantastic motor, but how strong is the T-Case behind that? I have seen TJs break T-Cases on 31s.

I think the 80 series is magical because all of it is well assembled. Interior is tight as can be, the motors run forever if taken care of (and you can afford the gas), stout frame and axles with having the option of finding one with 3x lockers, pretty damn reliable electronics for being at this point over 20 years old.

I bought my cruiser when I was 14 and now I am 21. I have put 100,000 miles on my cruiser since then and besides doing PM that we all know they need, its been rock solid. I just threw a supercharger on it 15,000 miles ago (260,000 miles). I am not sure how many trucks can take a supercharger at 250,000 + miles but I think thats pretty incredible.

I think cruisers are in a weird spot because now they are at the point where everything rubber needs attention, and nowdays everyone wants to throw big tires on them, along with bumpers and all the other crap, and still go 80 down the speed limit. And it pisses people off when it can‘t fulfill all of that. For being at this point a classic car, I am not sure what other trucks can do it better then them. Sure they aren’t perfect and no I don’t daily mine anymore (I drive a Pruis everyday now), but the 80 will always be the Swiss army knife of trucks. It doesn’t do anything perfect, but it does a lot of things very very well.

The interior on mine is junk. Full of tacky fake wood and crappy leather. And it handles like a pig and shakes on the highway while pulling to the left. Yes I’m aware these are likely affected by the POs maintenance, but even my rust bucket Tacoma wasn’t this rough.

They were great trucks when they came out and they still are if someone has the means to restore them. In retrospect I should’ve gone with the Xterra as I wouldn’t be worrying so much about it blowing a head gasket or getting beat up on trails. At this point I’m just wondering how much I should put into it before I sell.

As I said the PO neglected it so even the build quality couldn’t save this one. I must have been looking at it with rose colored glasses as its a 97: the last year of the solid axle.

 

[XJLI]

I think that there is no particular thing that makes the 80 series reliable, its all of it. Sure a Cummins from the same era probably will probably be less maintenance heavy and run longer, but hows the interior on that truck, how many rattles does it have? Sure the 4.0 in the Jeep is a fantastic motor, but how strong is the T-Case behind that? I have seen TJs break T-Cases on 31s.

I think the 80 series is magical because all of it is well assembled. Interior is tight as can be, the motors run forever if taken care of (and you can afford the gas), stout frame and axles with having the option of finding one with 3x lockers, pretty damn reliable electronics for being at this point over 20 years old.

I bought my cruiser when I was 14 and now I am 21. I have put 100,000 miles on my cruiser since then and besides doing PM that we all know they need, its been rock solid. I just threw a supercharger on it 15,000 miles ago (260,000 miles). I am not sure how many trucks can take a supercharger at 250,000 + miles but I think thats pretty incredible.

I think cruisers are in a weird spot because now they are at the point where everything rubber needs attention, and nowdays everyone wants to throw big tires on them, along with bumpers and all the other crap, and still go 80 down the speed limit. And it pisses people off when it can‘t fulfill all of that. For being at this point a classic car, I am not sure what other trucks can do it better then them. Sure they aren’t perfect and no I don’t daily mine anymore (I drive a Pruis everyday now), but the 80 will always be the Swiss army knife of trucks. It doesn’t do anything perfect, but it does a lot of things very very well.

No one's breaking Jeep transfer cases. Dana 35 rear ends? Yes. I agree on the "sum of its parts" thing, Toyota's build quality was a real marvel when the 80 came out, up and through the 2000s. Nowadays though, Toyota lags behind on innovation and every other manufacturer has stepped up their quality game. I don't buy the whole "Toyota doesn't use the newest tech, because the old stuff is reliable" argument. Its because not updating things is cheap, and it makes them more money. The 4Runner is ancient, and people still buy it. Why would they rush to update it? It has nearly no other competition in the segment. Every $45k TRD Pro sold is $45k in pure profit.

The 80 is akin to an old CJ. You buy it and drive it because it's cool and what you want or like. To say it is the best tool for the job in 2021 is crazy talk.

 

[nickw]

I think that there is no particular thing that makes the 80 series reliable, its all of it. Sure a Cummins from the same era probably will probably be less maintenance heavy and run longer, but hows the interior on that truck, how many rattles does it have? Sure the 4.0 in the Jeep is a fantastic motor, but how strong is the T-Case behind that? I have seen TJs break T-Cases on 31s.

I think the 80 series is magical because all of it is well assembled. Interior is tight as can be, the motors run forever if taken care of (and you can afford the gas), stout frame and axles with having the option of finding one with 3x lockers, pretty damn reliable electronics for being at this point over 20 years old.

I bought my cruiser when I was 14 and now I am 21. I have put 100,000 miles on my cruiser since then and besides doing PM that we all know they need, its been rock solid. I just threw a supercharger on it 15,000 miles ago (260,000 miles). I am not sure how many trucks can take a supercharger at 250,000 + miles but I think thats pretty incredible.

I think cruisers are in a weird spot because now they are at the point where everything rubber needs attention, and nowdays everyone wants to throw big tires on them, along with bumpers and all the other crap, and still go 80 down the speed limit. And it pisses people off when it can‘t fulfill all of that. For being at this point a classic car, I am not sure what other trucks can do it better then them. Sure they aren’t perfect and no I don’t daily mine anymore (I drive a Pruis everyday now), but the 80 will always be the Swiss army knife of trucks. It doesn’t do anything perfect, but it does a lot of things very very well.

I don't think it's magic - the mechanical strength to power ratio is probably better than any other vehicle out there, HD rear full floating axle with 200 hp is overkill.....that is to say its durability, not necessarily it's reliability. But we need to remember, at the time there were significantly more expensive than other options like a Cherokee....you paid for the all the extra stuff.

I was seriously considering a 80 15(ish) years ago, non of the interiors looked good, they always felt cheap to me.

I've never heard of Jeep Tcases being weak. The Cherokees, besides their great engines also used a manual trans built by Aisin (the AX15) which was very similar to the Aisin's that went in Toyotas of the same era (R150/1)....

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

Speaking of durability, it's too bad we never got the GU Patrols in the U.S. Apparently their drivelines makes the 80 look like a Subaru Forester by comparison.

 

[Andrew Bluemel]

No one's breaking Jeep transfer cases. Dana 35 rear ends? Yes. I agree on the "sum of its parts" thing, Toyota's build quality was a real marvel when the 80 came out, up and through the 2000s. Nowadays though, Toyota lags behind on innovation and every other manufacturer has stepped up their quality game. I don't buy the whole "Toyota doesn't use the newest tech, because the old stuff is reliable" argument. Its because not updating things is cheap, and it makes them more money. The 4Runner is ancient, and people still buy it. Why would they rush to update it? It has nearly no other competition in the segment. Every $45k TRD Pro sold is $45k in pure profit.

The 80 is akin to an old CJ. You buy it and drive it because it's cool and what you want or like. To say it is the best tool for the job in 2021 is crazy talk.

I don’t know who I’m wheeling with but I have seen two TJs (one automatic and one manual) blow up T cases. The manual one snow wheeling which was the most random thing in the world and the automatic one on Chinamans here in Colorado.

But none the less I know it all boils down to preference and everyone is going to have there preferences. From my perspective having bought and sold 28 cars at this point including a JK, LJ, Grand Cherokee, 2 FJ60s, a FJ40, a couple 3rd gen 4Runners and 4th gen 4Runner there is a reason why the Cruiser which was my first car has always stuck around and I was never star struck by another truck that made me want to trade it for the cruiser. I hated every single Jeeps interior with rattles, squeaks and panel gaps, so it does sorta blow my mind that so many people have been disappointed with the quality of the 80s.

I do agree though, at this point there are better trucks for the job it’s a old truck at this point and I appreciate the retro coolness. The new Toyota I 100% agree are a total let down. I would not walk into a dealer and go buy a Toyota over a Jeep.

But circling back to is a 80 worth it in this market which was the original question. I think it is there are still deals to be had if you look hard enough. They are definitely scarce which I think is pretty cool and from my ownership I’ve been really happy with how they perform on and off-road. But to each there own!

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

I think another reason they're still sought after is how many other vehicles have the same combination of solid axles in a relatively compact package (compared to American full-size), and also relative simplicity and trail-serviceability. The only analogue I can think of for the U.S. is the series 1 Disco. We didn't get the Patrols or early G-wagens here unfortunately.

 

[Todd780]

I don’t know who I’m wheeling with but I have seen two TJs (one automatic and one manual) blow up T cases.

The t-case in my auto '99 TJ went out. Actually everything in the drivetrain that particular TJ was bad except to 4.0. Ended up dumping it.

In retrospect I should’ve gone with the Xterra as I wouldn’t be worrying so much about it blowing a head gasket or getting beat up on trails.

Blown head gasket is what killed my '03 Xterra S/C. Too bad cause I loved that SUV.

Drivetrain on my '91 FJ80 was good. It was all the other stuff that kept nickel and diming me.

That... and being terrible to drive were the reasons I got rid of it for the above mentioned Xterra S/C.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

The t-case in my auto '99 TJ went out. Actually everything in the drivetrain that particular TJ was bad except to 4.0. Ended up dumping it.

Blown head gasket is what killed my '03 Xterra S/C. Too bad cause I loved that SUV.

Drivetrain on my '91 FJ80 was good. It was all the other stuff that kept nickel and diming me.

That... and being terrible to drive were the reasons I got rid of it for the above mentioned Xterra S/C.

The S/C models were known for that I think.

And I agree the 80 series drives like kind of a pig. My first gen Tacoma felt way lighter on its feet and perhaps more capable on the trail as a result, like it could just hop over obstacles. I feel like the 80 will just get bogged down, but then I haven't tested it in any serious terrain yet.

 

[XJLI]

I think another reason they're still sought after is how many other vehicles have the same combination of solid axles in a relatively compact package (compared to American full-size), and also relative simplicity and trail-serviceability. The only analogue I can think of for the U.S. is the series 1 Disco. We didn't get the Patrols or early G-wagens here unfortunately.

D1s are a lot smaller than 80s, but the greenhouse makes them feel similar. LWB RRCs would be a better comparison for something born around the same time. Cruisers have always been bigger than the equivalent LR until recently. It's too bad WJ Grand Cherokees don't hold up, that's a great package but the build quality is not good. They're super cheap now though, maybe nice ones will come up like Disco 2s are... few years ago you couldn't give one of those away. Similar story. Maybe I'm onto something.

 

[Lovetheworld]

100%

It would take a LOT of convincing from somebody to show me how a 90's Ford 3/4t with manual trans + 7.3 diesel or 4.9 six with Dana 60's axles or a Dodge equiv with a 5.9 cummins would in any way be inferior. I think the reality is those pickup examples were used by logging companies and got beat to death whereas most cruisers domestically lead a fairly easy posh bougie life.

I have a buddy with a RR Classic with 160k+ miles, runs perfectly, 0 issues outside a few annoying things electrically and the air bags. Feels about as tight and rides as good as any FJ80 of the same era that I've ridden in.

Great, now lets look at the rest of the world. Asia, Africa and Australia. 80s have been used properly everywhere and still are, although sometimes replaced by the 100 series. Next to the usage of a 70 of course.
Our last trip through central asia and mongolia showed many 80s still in use. And the conditions are pretty bad.
All with the diesel 1HD engine, which is probably more reliable than the petrol engines. And there are many remarks of high mileage 80s diesel versions. Some people actually drove theirs 500K kilometers including lots of trips.

I am not saying the other cars are bad, but an 80 series as a diesel has proven itself in harsh conditions and is still being used.
And yes they are old, probably all the rubbers dried out, lots of the noise on the highway which they probably don't see. And some repairs are definetly done in all those years.

But to say the 80s did not get tested properly because they had an easy life is just not true. Their reliability reports are based on these kind of usage. Many mountain regions in Asia still have 80s and sometimes even 40s as the local public transportation.

Nice that a Range rover of a friend is doing so well, but there is a reason Australia dropped all their Land rovers for Toyota.

I do agree that none of these differences apply to new models.

 

[Ozark_Prowler]

Great, now lets look at the rest of the world. Asia, Africa and Australia. 80s have been used properly everywhere and still are, although sometimes replaced by the 100 series. Next to the usage of a 70 of course.
Our last trip through central asia and mongolia showed many 80s still in use. And the conditions are pretty bad.
All with the diesel 1HD engine, which is probably more reliable than the petrol engines. And there are many remarks of high mileage 80s diesel versions. Some people actually drove theirs 500K kilometers including lots of trips.

I am not saying the other cars are bad, but an 80 series as a diesel has proven itself in harsh conditions and is still being used.
And yes they are old, probably all the rubbers dried out, lots of the noise on the highway which they probably don't see. And some repairs are definetly done in all those years.

But to say the 80s did not get tested properly because they had an easy life is just not true. Their reliability reports are based on these kind of usage. Many mountain regions in Asia still have 80s and sometimes even 40s as the local public transportation.

Nice that a Range rover of a friend is doing so well, but there is a reason Australia dropped all their Land rovers for Toyota.

I do agree that none of these differences apply to new models.

I know Toyota's are popular overseas but I've always wondered how much of that is Toyota's marketing of the 70 series workhorse to developing countries. I don't see a reason why an old Ford with the 300 ci engine or even an old IDI diesel with stronger axles than the Toyota wouldn't do the same things in the same environments.

Also, what is the evidence of the HD diesel being more reliable, other than anecdotally. I'm not saying you're wrong and I know diesels are usually more durable, but the 1fz seems about as close you could get to diesel durability without actually running diesel. Diesels might be more prevalent in Central Asia, but in much of South America and the GCC the diesels are few and far between.

The 1HD series itself (at least the earlier ones) is known for having various issues like the BEBs and they also lift HGs like the 1fz. Again I'm not the authority on this, but I'm curious to see any data or first-hand experience on why the Diesels are better.

 

[Paddler Ed]

Many of the 70s and 80s that are being discussed are more likely to be the 2H and 1HZ, big lazy 4200cc diesels that aren't rocket ships in any form, so avoid the BEB issue of the early 1HDT.

With regard to the 300CI engined Ford F-truck, what would the size be in comparison to a Toyota? Width wise, I always perceive them to being wider than the Toyota, so that may not work. The other trade off is fuel economy, US stuff is not well known for fuel efficiency compared to the rest of the world's vehicles. Even if fuel is cents rather than dollars, don't forget that pay is correspondingly lower.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

I know Toyota's are popular overseas but I've always wondered how much of that is Toyota's marketing of the 70 series workhorse to developing countries. I don't see a reason why an old Ford with the 300 ci engine or even an old IDI diesel with stronger axles than the Toyota wouldn't do the same things in the same environments.

Totally unscientific but I wonder if dealer support and local knowledge has anything to do with it.

If nobody knows how to work on them and parts are a slow boatride away... confidence in a vehicle will tank.

Kind of like how for vast expanses of the US a 'cruiser is about as common as a Romulan Warbird. Nobody knows much about them, no stores stock parts for them... with no support they are a fringe vehicle. I know of a single Lexus badged 80 series kicking around but no actual Land Cruisers of any flavor in my AO.

With regard to the 300CI engined Ford F-truck, what would the size be in comparison to a Toyota? Width wise, I always perceive them to being wider than the Toyota, so that may not work. The other trade off is fuel economy, US stuff is not well known for fuel efficiency compared to the rest of the world's vehicles. Even if fuel is cents rather than dollars, don't forget that pay is correspondingly lower.

Fulltime four wheel drives from overseas are not known for fuel economy either...

80 series owners...Post up your miles per gallon

We just returned from a long trip, mostly road driving, and after spending way too much $$$ on gas. I am curious to see what everyone is getting for gas mileage. I know 80s are not known or purchased for their gas sipping abilities, so that doesn't need to be discussed. But I am curious to...

expeditionportal.com

A lot of the older US four wheel drives were built as work/farm trucks, they didn't need long legs because they just needed to take this over there. So in general they had creeper transmissions, no overdrive and deep gearing. And four wheel drives were stupid rare for farmers since they were basically self sufficient until rather recently and had no reason to go anywhere in the winter.

I would love an old Land Cruiser, Land Rover or heck oven a Wagoneer... but my love for them doesn't have much to do with the mileage.

Never dealt with anything luxury like the US Land Cruisers but baseline a older rig right and they will do fine. I have driven my 35+ year old Ranger farther from home (recently) than I ever have my daily driver (which is a youthful 20 years old this coming February)

And there is a certain something-something about not have a cookie cutter newer rig like everybody else. ]

 

[Lovetheworld]

I know Toyota's are popular overseas but I've always wondered how much of that is Toyota's marketing of the 70 series workhorse to developing countries. I don't see a reason why an old Ford with the 300 ci engine or even an old IDI diesel with stronger axles than the Toyota wouldn't do the same things in the same environments.

Also, what is the evidence of the HD diesel being more reliable, other than anecdotally. I'm not saying you're wrong and I know diesels are usually more durable, but the 1fz seems about as close you could get to diesel durability without actually running diesel. Diesels might be more prevalent in Central Asia, but in much of South America and the GCC the diesels are few and far between.

The 1HD series itself (at least the earlier ones) is known for having various issues like the BEBs and they also lift HGs like the 1fz. Again I'm not the authority on this, but I'm curious to see any data or first-hand experience on why the Diesels are better.

Like I said, it wasn't to point out that Landcruisers are better. But that their heritage is true, and based on hard work in other continents. So a remark that Landcruisers would have a great reputation based on an easylife as soccer moms drive them around the US is ridiculous.

But here in Europe the 80 was almost always sold with the diesel and everybody loves them. I have so much anecdotal evidence it isn't anecdotal anymore. Also one guy who had high repair bills by the way, it is not all that great. And personally, now that they are so old, I would prefer a petrol version. The diesel has more parts to break. And the remark that reliability goes down now that they are almost 30 years old, yes I agree.
And still they are sometimes used as workhorse. I was talking to a beach cafe owner who had a really rough 80 to get to the cafe on the beach (salty) and always standing there. That thing is now 30 years old, 400K kilometers, and still it is very reliable to him, only requiring standard maintenance.
But I know lots of people driving them to high mileage pulling trailers and what not.

I also know a swiss guy who had an 80 diesel in Africa and did 500K kilometers in Africa with it, and it only failed him once.

But still this is not the same as doing that now with a 30 year old car. I see people making that mistake all the time, especially with Toyotas and Mercedes. Yes they are or were very reliable models, but you just bought some 25 to 35 year old car and going to travel the world with it. It is different from having that same car new from the dealer and going over the world.

We had a 30 year old BJ45 landcruiser (longbody diesel version of the fj40) and it is a great strong car. But somewhere in Iran in the middle of a city the clutch cilinder failed. All these rubbery gasket/seal kind of things are prown to failure at these ages.
The real great thing about a Toyota is that you can service it anywhere on the planet. Which is impossible with a US truck.
But then, there are specific US trucks and regions where it is absolutely fine and they will be serviceable.
In the end it is silly to focus on an old Toyota being THE way to overland. So many options.
I would like an FZJ80 as a (future) classic, keep it nice, see it rise in value. Unmodified.

And you guys are talking about prices for an fzj80, but here in Europe prices for a good HDJ80 are insane. And they typically have high mileage are slightly modified. I would not buy that.

 

[85_Ranger4x4]

500,000km is only like 300,000 miles, not really that special. Might be getting a little crusty around here from road salt that the rest of the world doesn't have to deal with but aside from EPA mandated shenanigans on the newer diesels maintence isn't a big deal.