Is the Pro 4x Worth it?

[steve c]

Not trying to sound like a ********, but just becuase you don't know the answer doesn't make it an opinion. It just means you're ignorant to the facts. In your defense, the numbers are a bit elusive and take time to find. Some of this is based on measurements people have taken and some with conversations with NissTec and RadFlo.

Using the fronts as an example, the stock Xterra shocks have a stroke of 4". Given the width of the control arms, we get about a 1:1.5 ratio of shock stroke to wheel travel ratio. So on a stock travel suspension, we get roughly 6" of wheel travel. Going to a radflo "extended travel" shock only nets about another inch of shock stroke, for a travel at the wheel of approximately 7.5-8".

The FJ cruiser, on the other hand, has roughly 6" of SHOCK STROKE in stock form. Basic long travel suspension set ups for FJ's have over 11" of travel at the wheel.

Those are the best/seemingly most reliable numbers I have been able to find based on posted actual measurements and conversations with nisstec and radflo. If someone has better numbers, I'd (genuinely) like to see them.....

The bottom line is the suspension of the Xterra was designed for the road. Not to articulate. The X will never perform as well as the Toyota's do without doing a titan front end swap and custom length, long travel rear shocks. Doesn't bother some folks, which great, its a functional option. I don't really want to incur the time/expense of a titan swap, or have the mini monster truck look of the wheels sticking out 3" past the fenders.

Its a reality that sucks. Had I known this up front (or had it even occurred to me to check) I never would have bought the Xterra. Watching my truck on the trail vs my buddy's FJ is an outright depressing spectacle when you compare the obstacle clearance and articulation of the trucks.

We've got another greenmanx on our hands!



Good explanation however


I did the "flex test" out at Truckhaven in the SoCal desert. Not sure if it's relevant to our discussion, but here it is anyways.

At the time of these photos, I had the PRG advanced kit installed with stock leafs and AALs.









The X was full of all my camping stuff.

 

[libarata]

Not trying to sound like a ********, but just becuase you don't know the answer doesn't make it an opinion. It just means you're ignorant to the facts. In your defense, the numbers are a bit elusive and take time to find. Some of this is based on measurements people have taken and some with conversations with NissTec and RadFlo.

Using the fronts as an example, the stock Xterra shocks have a stroke of 4". Given the width of the control arms, we get about a 1:1.5 ratio of shock stroke to wheel travel ratio. So on a stock travel suspension, we get roughly 6" of wheel travel. Going to a radflo "extended travel" shock only nets about another inch of shock stroke, for a travel at the wheel of approximately 7.5-8".

The FJ cruiser, on the other hand, has roughly 6" of SHOCK STROKE in stock form. Basic long travel suspension set ups for FJ's have over 11" of travel at the wheel.

Those are the best/seemingly most reliable numbers I have been able to find based on posted actual measurements and conversations with nisstec and radflo. If someone has better numbers, I'd (genuinely) like to see them.....

The bottom line is the suspension of the Xterra was designed for the road. Not to articulate. The X will never perform as well as the Toyota's do without doing a titan front end swap and custom length, long travel rear shocks. Doesn't bother some folks, which great, its a functional option. I don't really want to incur the time/expense of a titan swap, or have the mini monster truck look of the wheels sticking out 3" past the fenders.

Its a reality that sucks. Had I known this up front (or had it even occurred to me to check) I never would have bought the Xterra. Watching my truck on the trail vs my buddy's FJ is an outright depressing spectacle when you compare the obstacle clearance and articulation of the trucks.

It was built to be an offroad capable utility vehicle, not a crawler. Should it then be a shock that it fails as a crawler? The FJ was not meant to be a utility vehicle, otherwise you could see out of the damnable thing. Nice try though.

 

[KiwiKurt]

We've got another greenmanx on our hands!

Fill in the ignorant?

I did the "flex test" out at Truckhaven in the SoCal desert. Not sure if it's relevant to our discussion, but here it is anyways.

At the time of these photos, I had the PRG advanced kit installed with stock leafs and AALs.

is that an "extended travel" set up?

 

[KiwiKurt]

It was built to be an offroad capable utility vehicle, not a crawler. Should it then be a shock that it fails as a crawler? The FJ was not meant to be a utility vehicle, otherwise you could see out of the damnable thing. Nice try though.

*shrug* to each their own. I like the xterra quite a bit on the road, or even off road on trails. But it doesn't perform nearly as well when the trail gets really rough, and I'm by no means a "crawler"....

I'll probably change to the extended travel radflos and hope its "good enough".

 

[Strizzo]

Not trying to sound like a ********, but just becuase you don't know the answer doesn't make it an opinion. It just means you're ignorant to the facts. In your defense, the numbers are a bit elusive and take time to find. Some of this is based on measurements people have taken and some with conversations with NissTec and RadFlo.

Using the fronts as an example, the stock Xterra shocks have a stroke of 4". Given the width of the control arms, we get about a 1:1.5 ratio of shock stroke to wheel travel ratio. So on a stock travel suspension, we get roughly 6" of wheel travel. Going to a radflo "extended travel" shock only nets about another inch of shock stroke, for a travel at the wheel of approximately 7.5-8".

The FJ cruiser, on the other hand, has roughly 6" of SHOCK STROKE in stock form. Basic long travel suspension set ups for FJ's have over 11" of travel at the wheel.

Those are the best/seemingly most reliable numbers I have been able to find based on posted actual measurements and conversations with nisstec and radflo. If someone has better numbers, I'd (genuinely) like to see them.....

The bottom line is the suspension of the Xterra was designed for the road. Not to articulate. The X will never perform as well as the Toyota's do without doing a titan front end swap and custom length, long travel rear shocks. Doesn't bother some folks, which great, its a functional option. I don't really want to incur the time/expense of a titan swap, or have the mini monster truck look of the wheels sticking out 3" past the fenders.

Its a reality that sucks. Had I known this up front (or had it even occurred to me to check) I never would have bought the Xterra. Watching my truck on the trail vs my buddy's FJ is an outright depressing spectacle when you compare the obstacle clearance and articulation of the trucks.

again, i'm not arguing that the FJ or Xterra can be made into the more capable vehicle, I was simply replying to the assertion that a stock FJ can "out wheel" (which is a pretty vague term, could mean mud, rocks, overland, fording... lots of things) a 2" lifted xterra (doesn't specify which lift, just "his 2" lifted xterra S", so not even a comparable package to the the FJ TT, but nonetheless). the stock swaybars are not going to allow much more if any more articulation on an FJ and if you look at the numbers, its pretty damn close so any advantage is slight at best aside from wheelbase, assume pro4x vs TT or OR package FJ, both come with 32" tires, factory stamped steel skids, rear locker, A-TRAC/E-LSD, and bilstein shocks.

also, the shock/wheel ratio on the xterra is more like 1.65, but you're still not going to get that out of either truck in a flexing mode without removing the swaybars, so its all just bench racing anyways.

sure, FJ has a ton of aftermarket and available "long travel" kits but they get there the same way you do with a titan swap anyways, with longer arms and longer coilovers (the wheel sticking 3" out the fenders . Also, the statement that "the xterra was designed for the road, not to articulate" isn't really fair considering its the same front suspension as the tacoma and 4runner (same rear suspension setup as 4runner too) but supposedly the 4th gen 4runner was a dog offroad in stock form.

 

[Viggen]

Also, the statement that "the xterra was designed for the road, not to articulate" isn't really fair considering its the same front suspension as the tacoma and 4runner (same rear suspension setup as 4runner too) but supposedly the 4th gen 4runner was a dog offroad in stock form.

What? The Taco is leaf sprung in the rear. The 4Runner has been coil sprung in the rear since the 2nd gen in the early 90s.

So, the Titan swap is the Nissan equivalent of a long travel kit for the Taco/ 4Runner? In my area, tires sticking out that far beyond the fender line is illegal so I am guessing that people are running flares?

 

[Strizzo]

What? The Taco is leaf sprung in the rear. The 4Runner has been coil sprung in the rear since the 2nd gen in the early 90s.

So, the Titan swap is the Nissan equivalent of a long travel kit for the Taco/ 4Runner? In my area, tires sticking out that far beyond the fender line is illegal so I am guessing that people are running flares?

Front suspension is the same on the three, the FJ and 4runner have the same setup in the rear, 4 link coil suspension

 

[Viggen]

Front suspension is the same on the three, the FJ and 4runner have the same setup in the rear, 4 link coil suspension

They all might be IFS but that does not mean that they are the same. If that was not the case, you could go to any Toyota place and buy their stuff to bolt onto your Nissan. Nothing is the same between a Toyota and a Nissan front suspension. The FJ and the 4Runner are the same in the rear but that does not mean that they are going to respond the same. Wheelbases, weights, etc... are going to make the trucks react differently.

 

[KiwiKurt]

also, the shock/wheel ratio on the xterra is more like 1.65, but you're still not going to get that out of either truck in a flexing mode without removing the swaybars, so its all just bench racing anyways.

Really interested to see where that number comes from. All I have been able to find is a 1.5 ratio? Not that the .15 really makes any difference at all.....

sure, FJ has a ton of aftermarket and available "long travel" kits but they get there the same way you do with a titan swap anyways, with longer arms and longer coilovers (the wheel sticking 3" out the fenders . Also, the statement that "the xterra was designed for the road, not to articulate" isn't really fair considering its the same front suspension as the tacoma and 4runner (same rear suspension setup as 4runner too) but supposedly the 4th gen 4runner was a dog offroad in stock form.

True, a lot of them are replacing the upper and lower control arms same as with a Titan swap, but the shock stroke is still a lot longer. Without replacing the lower control arms, the FJ is getting about 11" of wheel travel(LT shocks w/ UCA), which is about 1.5" compression and droop advantage over the X with a long travel shock and UCA.

True, its no fair to say "set up for road", My X has thus far gotten me everywhere I have wanted to go...just sour bitterness talking.

...similar in design to the Taco in coil front/leaf rear, but the Toyota is executed better. long travel shocks in those platforms is netting roughly 10 inches of suspension travel.....

Does anyone make sway bar disconnects for the X that we know of?

 

[Strizzo]

They all might be IFS but that does not mean that they are the same. If that was not the case, you could go to any Toyota place and buy their stuff to bolt onto your Nissan. Nothing is the same between a Toyota and a Nissan front suspension. The FJ and the 4Runner are the same in the rear but that does not mean that they are going to respond the same. Wheelbases, weights, etc... are going to make the trucks react differently.

i don't know how you get the idea i thought the suspension pieces are identical toyota to nissan, what i meant was FJ, taco, 4runner use the same front suspension parts, FJ and 4runner use same rear suspension parts, yet somehow only the FJ is this magical offroad machine because of the suspension it has, which is nearly the same as at least two other vehicles toyota makes.

i know that the weights and wheelbases can affect how the trucks work off road, but they all weigh around the same 4k lbs, and wheelbase can help OR hurt you depending on the obstacle.

 

[KiwiKurt]

i don't know how you get the idea i thought the suspension pieces are identical toyota to nissan, what i meant was FJ, taco, 4runner use the same front suspension parts, FJ and 4runner use same rear suspension parts, yet somehow only the FJ is this magical offroad machine because of the suspension it has, which is nearly the same as at least two other vehicles toyota makes.

i know that the weights and wheelbases can affect how the trucks work off road, but they all weigh around the same 4k lbs, and wheelbase can help OR hurt you depending on the obstacle.

I may have missed where someone has done that, but I wasn't arguing that. I only compared the FJ to the Xterre because they are similar in size and price, and my wheeling buddy drives one. My argument is that Toyota's in general are better on the trail than the nissans are, and that the suspension travel is largely the reason. I don't consider the FJ "magical" but when you see a FJ or 4 runner with long travel shocks and ATRACS go over the same thing your Xterra with a OME lift does the difference in performance is readily apparent.

There are things i like better about the x...engine, interior lay out...etc...

 

[Viggen]

Also, the statement that "the xterra was designed for the road, not to articulate" isn't really fair considering its the same front suspension as the tacoma and 4runner (same rear suspension setup as 4runner too) but supposedly the 4th gen 4runner was a dog offroad in stock form.

i don't know how you get the idea i thought the suspension pieces are identical toyota to nissan, what i meant was FJ, taco, 4runner use the same front suspension parts, FJ and 4runner use same rear suspension parts, yet somehow only the FJ is this magical offroad machine because of the suspension it has, which is nearly the same as at least two other vehicles toyota makes.

Read the above quote from you. The way it is written makes it sound like you are comparing the Taco, the 4Runner, and the Xterra as having the "same front suspension." That is where it came from. The FJ is a pretty decent offroad truck as long as you do not need to see where you are going. I think wheelbase and overhand differences make the FJ better than the Taco and 4Runner.

 

[KiwiKurt]

lol. My truck is so packed with stuff they could have made a panel-back version and it wouldnt have mattered to me. :lol: :rofl:

Does anyone know of a sway bar disconnect option?

 

[Viggen]

Does anyone know of a sway bar disconnect option?

 

[Strizzo]

Really interested to see where that number comes from. All I have been able to find is a 1.5 ratio? Not that the .15 really makes any difference at all.....



True, a lot of them are replacing the upper and lower control arms same as with a Titan swap, but the shock stroke is still a lot longer. Without replacing the lower control arms, the FJ is getting about 11" of wheel travel(LT shocks w/ UCA), which is about 1.5" compression and droop advantage over the X with a long travel shock and UCA.

True, its no fair to say "set up for road", My X has thus far gotten me everywhere I have wanted to go...just sour bitterness talking.

...similar in design to the Taco in coil front/leaf rear, but the Toyota is executed better. long travel shocks in those platforms is netting roughly 10 inches of suspension travel.....

Does anyone make sway bar disconnects for the X that we know of?

The 1.65 number was figured out by a guy on the xterra forums that took some detailed measurements to figure it out, and it was consistent with my findings when i was working on my radflos and trying to set the preload on the springs, someone else noted a 3" lift with the spring perch set x inches from the end of the shock with 650lb springs, i used the 1.65 multiplier to find where it would have to be set for a 2" lift over stock and it was right on for me.

the additional .15 does make a difference since we're bench racing. on the stock 4" travel shock, if that is the limiting factor, 1.5 says its 6", 1.65 is 6.6", over 1/2" more. with the radflo extended length travel of 5", it would be 8.25" rather than 7.5" if we're to believe everything we read on the internet and say that the OME shock has 5.77" of travel, it would be 9.5" vs 8.6".

Also, we are assuming that the shock is the limiting factor in wheel travel, which it is not always the case. ball joints, tie rods and cv axles can limit your down travel and bump stops limit up travel so saying this truck has shocks with that travel means its so many inches of travel isn't necessarily true.


STILL, this is all from the claim that a STOCK FJ can "out wheel" a lifted xterra. i'm sure we could come up with a bunch of things that makes one better than the other but in the end the difference is going to be miniscule.