Is the Ranger the Hilux we've been wanting?

[plainjaneFJC]

You say that, but the whole reason this thread started was because someone thinks the Ranger is more akin to the longtime global benchmark (Hilux) than is the Tacoma.

People do want Hilux-like trucks. Overlanding and offroading has taken off in NA in a massive way. People living in suburban and city areas want smaller, but still capable, trucks. Sportscar interest is dying off but truck/offroading interest is picking up with the car-buying population.

The Tacoma is the #1 selling midsized truck in North America, and one the major criticisms against it is that it is too spartan and basic in its design...arguably those attributes are what make it appealing to so many customers. The midsized truck owners would likely jump at the opportunity to buy a Hilux. Any rough-riding attributes could easily be fine-tuned with suspension adjustments.

The main reason the Hilux isn't imported is because of import taxes on light trucks...and I'm sure that the domestic OEM's have no interest in seeing that tax repealed.

Thats not true, because toyota could easily build a hilux here, consumers by and large don't want it.

 

[LimaMikeMike]

Thats not true, because toyota could easily build a hilux here, consumers by and large don't want it.

I sincerely believe that is changing, Midsize trucks have been on the resurgence for a while now. Ford saw an opportunity and plugged in a version of the global ranger as an interim vehicle to get a slice of a growing pie.

 

[shade]

Thats not true, because toyota could easily build a hilux here, consumers by and large don't want it.

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Toyota could sell the trucks side by side and see how sales play out, but whether they build it in NA or import the Hilux, that's not a cheap solution. For whatever reasons, the Tacoma was developed for NA, and it's been a great product for Toyota. They've rarely felt enough pressure to change it, so doing something as radical as dumping it altogether in favour of the Hilux for NA is unlikely.

I believe the Hilux would sell in NA, but Toyota has already run the numbers, so they know better than anyone that keeping the Tacoma for NA is still the right decision for them.

 

[LimaMikeMike]

I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Toyota could sell the trucks side by side and see how sales play out, but whether they build it in NA or import the Hilux, that's not a cheap solution. For whatever reasons, the Tacoma was developed for NA, and it's been a great product for Toyota. They've rarely felt enough pressure to change it, so doing something as radical as dumping it altogether in favour of the Hilux for NA is unlikely.

I believe the Hilux would sell in NA, but Toyota has already run the numbers, so they know better than anyone that keeping the Tacoma for NA is still the right decision for them.

Mexico has both the Taco and the Hilux don’t they? I realize the demographic is different but it would be interesting to see the take rate between the two.

 

[billiebob]

The Tacoma is the #1 selling midsized truck in North America, and one the major criticisms against it is that it is too spartan and basic in its design...arguably those attributes are what make it appealing to so many customers.

Absolutely. ^^^ I hate all the extras that are "standard" on new trucks.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I wouldn't want an AT that didn't allow manual gear selection, but I've only seen that on some cars.

I've seen some confusion about manual control of ATs, usually from MT proponents trying to prop up their preference. The AT in my Tacoma definitely allows manual selection for towing and the like.

I'm a dyed in the wool stick shift person but know enough about autos that they all have enough ability to lock them into at least a couple of gears. Like preventing overdrive for towing, maybe starting in 2nd, locking in 1st for off highway. Otherwise I don't completely understand why having finite control in a truck is that practical in nature. If you wanted to shift all the time then buy a stick shift, otherwise let the machine do what you paid the money to have it do. In a sports car being able to up and down shift each gear might be an important thing, for the track.

Mexico has both the Taco and the Hilux don’t they? I realize the demographic is different but it would be interesting to see the take rate between the two.

I think the demographic exists for both in most places. Tacomas get imported into many countries I understand in South America like we do with 25+ year old trucks, for enthusiasts who like the more comfortable highway ride, power, more aggressive looks, etc. Just like here there's still a small number of buyers who would opt for a stripped down utility truck. It's a segment that is filled with poverty spec F150s and Super Duty trucks to some extent and others (like me) just buy a used Tacoma and build it down (steel wheels, taking out OEM stereo, inverters, etc.). I'd have happily bought a new(er) Hilux if it was available but I had to accept the reality that is. Toyota is above all not stupid, they know how to maximize profit so markets get what sells.

 

[calicamper]

I'm a dyed in the wool stick shift person but know enough about autos that they all have enough ability to lock them into at least a couple of gears. Like preventing overdrive for towing, maybe starting in 2nd, locking in 1st for off highway. Otherwise I don't completely understand why having finite control in a truck is that practical in nature. If you wanted to shift all the time then buy a stick shift, otherwise let the machine do what you paid the money to have it do. In a sports car being able to up and down shift each gear might be an important thing, for the track.

I think the demographic exists for both in most places. Tacomas get imported into many countries I understand in South America like we do with 25+ year old trucks, for enthusiasts who like the more comfortable highway ride, power, more aggressive looks, etc. Just like here there's still a small number of buyers who would opt for a stripped down utility truck. It's a segment that is filled with poverty spec F150s and Super Duty trucks to some extent and others (like me) just buy a used Tacoma and build it down (steel wheels, taking out OEM stereo, inverters, etc.). I'd have happily bought a new(er) Hilux if it was available but I had to accept the reality that is. Toyota is above all not stupid, they know how to maximize profit so markets get what sells.

I’m a Manual guy also but to be honest a really poorly done manual vs a modern well done Auto its an easy decision for me the Auto gets my vote.

There is nothing worse than a really poorly done manual transmission.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Thats not true, because toyota could easily build a hilux here, consumers by and large don't want it.

Bingo! Hence why the bottom of the line trucks are not the most frequently bought by individuals. My truck is also my family vehicle... The last thing I want is to pay todays price for a truck with the creature comforts of the 1990's.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I’m a Manual guy also but to be honest a really poorly done manual vs a modern well done Auto its an easy decision for me the Auto gets my vote.

There is nothing worse than a really poorly done manual transmission.

And the 2nd gen RA60 6-speed is not one of Toyota's best. The current RC62 is better and the 5-speeds R155 and R156 behind 4 cylinders were much better. The RC60 isn't a bad transmission so much as it's just not good. Gearing is great for a Camaro, the longevity is suspect. The release bearing rides on a fixed aluminum sleeve that at 90K needed a Speedi Sleeve on mine due to a groove being worn in. It's not easily replaced and wears quickly, just not a good design.

 

[calicamper]

Bingo! Hence why the bottom of the line trucks are not the most frequently bought by individuals. My truck is also my family vehicle... The last thing I want is to pay todays price for a truck with the creature comforts of the 1990's.

Or safety ratings equal to a GOV owned Russian car maker. LOL

The closest thing to a Hilux we ever had here in the US was the 1980-1985 Toyota pickup.

Tough as nails suspension that rode like a buckboard, and very light load capacity compared to a Full sized truck of that time.

Most people today never experienced walking or riding horses on the shoulder of a highway because the pickups couldn’t physically tow the stock trailer up the grade. Back in those days all the farmers drove Dodges because the Fords and Chevys were little city slicker trucks and could not haul any farm stuff. In the 70’s Ford and GM started making larger pickup trucks with some capability.

Todays mid sized truck in the US are strictly life style trucks meaning they are used to do fun stuff. However it’s been made very clear over several threads that unless your basically a back packer group or solo traveler the mid sized trucks barely have the capacity to handle that. So some are over weight and most rarely do much other than haul bicycles or soccer balls to soccer games lol.

This week we have a insane about of construction going on in our town one of the dads is a engineer and said there are 8 different companies alone doing infrastructure stuff. Not counting the two large builders building complexes in town.

There are so many pickups going around being used for real work its crazy right now. Ford and Dodge seem to be the top choice a few random pretty GMCs probably the bosses truck. None are mid sized. Except the utility guys doing plot work have stripped down Canyons and I spotted some outfit doing power line inspections with basic Ford Rangers.

No Toyotas. In Tanzania the GOV vehicles were Rovers and French cars. Not Toyotas. In fact the owner driver we had said he owned a rover for wet season research work only. His LC was dry season tourists only because it was heavy it sank and was not a muddy road vehicle at all.

The only place you find crazy debates like this are in the US.

Even in Australia Toyota isn’t the end all only choice. Lots of people like Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Ford Holden etc.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Or safety ratings equal to a GOV owned Russian car maker. LOL

Hahahaha... That's a data point that is completely overlooked on this forum.

 

[roving1]

Mexico has both the Taco and the Hilux don’t they? I realize the demographic is different but it would be interesting to see the take rate between the two.

They do but the take rates are not super relevant. Most of the Tacos here are expat trucks because they were affordable when bought in the states. Tacos are expensive , Hiluxes are super expensive and almost always commercially bought. The real story is Nissan owns the truck market in Mexico. Whatever the take rate is for Tacos Nissan is selling an exponential amount more to more economic classes. In a typical days driving around Central Mexico I might see 1-2 Rangers 2-3 Hiluxes 3-4 Tacos, and about 50 to100 Nissan NP series trucks. It's too weird a comparison.

 

[shade]

Or safety ratings equal to a GOV owned Russian car maker. LOL

The closest thing to a Hilux we ever had here in the US was the 1980-1985 Toyota pickup.

Tough as nails suspension that rode like a buckboard, and very light load capacity compared to a Full sized truck of that time.

Most people today never experienced walking or riding horses on the shoulder of a highway because the pickups couldn’t physically tow the stock trailer up the grade. Back in those days all the farmers drove Dodges because the Fords and Chevys were little city slicker trucks and could not haul any farm stuff. In the 70’s Ford and GM started making larger pickup trucks with some capability.

Todays mid sized truck in the US are strictly life style trucks meaning they are used to do fun stuff. However it’s been made very clear over several threads that unless your basically a back packer group or solo traveler the mid sized trucks barely have the capacity to handle that. So some are over weight and most rarely do much other than haul bicycles or soccer balls to soccer games lol.

This week we have a insane about of construction going on in our town one of the dads is a engineer and said there are 8 different companies alone doing infrastructure stuff. Not counting the two large builders building complexes in town.

There are so many pickups going around being used for real work its crazy right now. Ford and Dodge seem to be the top choice a few random pretty GMCs probably the bosses truck. None are mid sized. Except the utility guys doing plot work have stripped down Canyons and I spotted some outfit doing power line inspections with basic Ford Rangers.

No Toyotas. In Tanzania the GOV vehicles were Rovers and French cars. Not Toyotas. In fact the owner driver we had said he owned a rover for wet season research work only. His LC was dry season tourists only because it was heavy it sank and was not a muddy road vehicle at all.

The only place you find crazy debates like this are in the US.

Even in Australia Toyota isn’t the end all only choice. Lots of people like Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Ford Holden etc.

I'm not sure why you keep making a point about "real trucks" being full size, midsize trucks being useless for work, etc.

I use my Tacoma for construction work, I just towed a 5000 lb trailer through 20 hours of mountains and desert heat, and I'm in the middle of an offroad camping trip with another person. I've taken the truck through narrow, rough trails, and on three week camping trips through the Pacific Northwest. I'm not alone in using my truck for more than hauling soccer balls and ballet shoes.

There's an argument to be made that a midsize truck isn't the best fit for some uses, but there's no need to run them down because one isn't right for you.

 

[shade]

I'm a dyed in the wool stick shift person but know enough about autos that they all have enough ability to lock them into at least a couple of gears. Like preventing overdrive for towing, maybe starting in 2nd, locking in 1st for off highway. Otherwise I don't completely understand why having finite control in a truck is that practical in nature. If you wanted to shift all the time then buy a stick shift, otherwise let the machine do what you paid the money to have it do. In a sports car being able to up and down shift each gear might be an important thing, for the track.

We're on the same page. I'm not interested in having full manual control of an AT at all times, down to locking the TC as I see fit.

Some people seem to believe an AT can't be manually controlled at all. I find the Tacoma's gated AT shifter particularly good for offroad use. Getting tossed around doesn't result in a bad shift since you're moving the shifter one notch at a time.

 

[Christian P.]

As promised, seen on display at the Papeete airport today - Ford Ranger Raptor and a base model with 5 cylinder diesel and 6 speed manual.