Is the Tacoma enough truck?

[Clutch]

What I was meaning was...perfectly ok to use a massive amounts of resources and energy to manufacture those vehicles and build those roads....those roads were put into lands that were once wild...that seems to be ok, but....


I dunno... I hang around all the user groups...was seriously into mountain bikes before the moto. My ex-wife is a ultra trail runner. Has done the Western States 100. Helped run support in my beater Tacoma for some gawd damn reason refuse to give up.

From my experience out of all them the dirt bikers do the most trail maintenance. I even asked some of our trail running friends to come out and help with one of trail maintenance weekends and got laughed at.

 

[phsycle]

That's impressive to even qualify for WS100. Bucket list for me.

 

[jasmtis]

You gotta remember I went through the back packing stage in my life. Compared to the rest of my moto buds...I am a minimalist.

15 gallon water/5 gallon stainless mash pot for a shower. The pot has a spigot on the side for a garden hose. Get filthy riding all day like to be clean before I climb into my sleeping bag.

Camp Mate Chuck Box
52 qt cooler
2 24X48 Golding tables. One for in the camper another for outside.
Moto gear bag
Day clothes gear bag
Folding bike stand. Doubles as work stand and to set cooler on in the camper or outside
Large tackle box, that has various fasteners and parts for the bike.
5 & 1 gallon gas cans
Chainsaw
Lantern
Propane a couple small bottles for the stove and lantern. 15 pounder for Mr Heater
Shower privy
Small box for dry goods
Pillow
Shovel
Small broom
2 ammo boxes. One has tie downs, bungees recovery equip. The other various fluids.
Rainfly for the leaky Wildernest.
Hammock
Lawn chair
Bicycle floor pump
Klim Crew Pak (back pack)
Chest Protector
5X8 open trailer and dirt bike
And some odds and ends.

Last nights dinner view, elk came back two nights in a row in the meadow below.

View attachment 474651

That'd be a pretty easy fit in a DCSB, even for me with a tonneau and no proper topper. Keep in mind that you have the exact same amount of space as an ECLB, it's just apportioned differently. I find that for camping where you might have a lot of gear but not a whole lot of particularly bulky gear it opens up a lot of flexibility as it's extra space that's more dry and secure than any bed solution and everything in it is instantly reachable from both the driver's seat and outside. Just underneath and behind the back seats I have chains for all four wheels, a basic set of tools, five or six tie downs, a folding shovel, an extensive first aid kit, spare shoes, jumper cables, a blanket, a bivy sack, paper towels, and trash bags with me all the time. This is when you open the back door and it looks like the truck is completely empty.

My take is that there are some areas where heavy-impact traffic (motorized, equestrian) should be allowed, as long as the proper maintenance efforts are in place, and there are other areas which should be restricted to foot and bicycle traffic (wilderness areas are a prime example).

I do get a little sick of the of the blame game that various factions play with one another: bicycle traffic is okay but motorcycle traffic is bad; jeep traffic is acceptable but full-size vehicles aren't allowed; snowmobilers tend to dislike any other forms of traffic on their trails.

If the land in question is public, then people need to accept that there will be multiple uses in certain areas. Demonizing groups of people who recreate differently from you is counterproductive and divisive. Keep in mind, there are factions out there which want all forms of horse, motorized and mechanical traffic prohibited and want everyone walking around the trails in Teva's and 'eco-friendly' clothing.

Eh, everyone likes to think their preferred activity is the best activity. At least the bicycle-and-foot-only crowd are easy to get away from. An hour or two of driving or riding into the backcountry and you've exceeded their entire range for the weekend.

 

[DaveInDenver]

We're all in this together, don't let some complaining divide us. If you're successful at demonizing MTB'ers then the crosshairs get moved to the next target.

 

[Clutch]

We're all in this together, don't let some complaining divide us. If you're successful at demonizing MTB'ers then the crosshairs get moved to the next target.

Weren't you just complaining about E-Bikes... They are finding out they aren't allowed on most mountain trails...and have to ride motorized, now they are looking at our trails...and they don't like us, thanks a lot!

Ohhhh....it is the "holier-than-thou" types that I fed up with. Meet an awful lot of them on the trail... growing tired of them. Funny thing is I love cycling and hiking...but depending on which clown suit I am wearing that day...is how people react to me. Still the same person no matter what hat I am wearing.

You can always tell you're going to get chewed out by the look on their face...it is like "here we go again, time to put on my happy fave and kill them with kindness!"...while I rather grab a tire iron out of my pack and drag it across their teeth. Just so over the hostility towards us from other user groups. Meet more angry hikers and bikers than not. So tell your buddies to be nice to us moto guys, weren't aren't bad people.

That's impressive to even qualify for WS100. Bucket list for me.

Just supporting it was kinda crazy...can't even imagine running it. I have done some team 24 hour mountain racing, and always wanted to solo the Baja 1000 on a bike...so I "get" the whole long distance endurance thing. Running that distance still seems nuts to me.


Speaking of widening trails...and funny I was just talking about this very thing. Did some multi-use trails today...one trail had 4 blow downs on it. They were small, normally if it was primarily a moto trail I would of left it, super easy to bump up over...however the mountain bikes were going around them. So I cut them, and laid the logs to encourage "Stay the Trail". If you aren't skilled enough to bump up or bunny hop over, think the proper trail etiquette is to dismount and portage your bike over...and not make the trail wider. Don't need a F350 to make trails wider...a bicycle will do.

I took pictures if you want evidence.

That'd be a pretty easy fit in a DCSB, even for me with a tonneau and no proper topper. Keep in mind that you have the exact same amount of space as an ECLB, it's just apportioned differently. I find that for camping where you might have a lot of gear but not a whole lot of particularly bulky gear it opens up a lot of flexibility as it's extra space that's more dry and secure than any bed solution and everything in it is instantly reachable from both the driver's seat and outside. Just underneath and behind the back seats I have chains for all four wheels, a basic set of tools, five or six tie downs, a folding shovel, an extensive first aid kit, spare shoes, jumper cables, a blanket, a bivy sack, paper towels, and trash bags with me all the time. This is when you open the back door and it looks like the truck is completely empty.

Cargo space is nearly the same, but however...my 6' Wildernest won't fit...so right from the get go...those DCSB are useless to me. Even if I didn't have a Wildernest and only did a camper shell, I can't sleep in the bed of the truck under the topper...and no, those tent extension things aren't an option, nor are the GFC, Vagabond, or OVRLND camper on that small of a bed. For that kind of coin ($10K) for a camper I want some room to move about and hang out in when the weather is terrible outside. Did a 3 day pouring down rain (like buckets coming down) this past spring in the Wildernest...no way would I want anything smaller. It might be a leaky SOB...but it is a roomy leaky SOB. A simple tarp kept it mostly dry that weekend, just the edges of the mattress got wet. That is when I moved my cooking setup to the inside...it was waaay too miserable outside, the rain was blowing sideways for cripes-sake! That is when I decided..."hey I kinda like having the kitchen on the inside of the camper". Which got me thinking...this is good, it works...but this setup could be a little bigger...and down the rabbit hole I go!

Even if Dave showed us those stubby bed HiLuxes from overseas, and Toyota sells a ********-ton of them. Doesn't mean I have to like them. I mean...the Kardashians and Justin Bieber are popular...Tacoma DCSB's are popular....not trying to judge people, but...

I don't see the point of them...you might as well get a SUV. Which I have one of those too.

DCSB doesn't solve any problems...it actually creates them for my needs. Why I think they **********' dumb, much like the Kardashians and the Biebs...and yes, I did just compare the DCSB Taco to them....

Eh, everyone likes to think their preferred activity is the best activity. At least the bicycle-and-foot-only crowd are easy to get away from. An hour or two of driving or riding into the backcountry and you've exceeded their entire range for the weekend.

They do! After working with the public for years...have come to the conclusion that everyone hates everybody else. Do you know what the number one thing people complain about is?

It is other people...


Yeah, mostly easy to get away. Why I chose to ride during the weekdays and not the weekends (and why I love camping on the shoulder months)...less encounters with knuckleheads.

Even mountain biker vs. mountain biker...popular spot here is the Ridge to Rivers trail system. Downhill bikers are supposed to yeild to climbers...I have yet to witness any downhiller yielding to me while I am climbing. That said, always thought it should be the other way around, as it easier for the climber to stop, plus keeps downhillers from skidding more, which is bad for the trails.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Weren't you just complaining about E-Bikes... Finding out they aren't allowed on most mountain trails...and have to ride motorized, now they are looking at our trails...and they don't like us, thanks a lot!

Ohhhh....it is the "holier-than-thou" types that I fed up with. Meet an awful lot of them on the trail... growing tired of them. Funny thing is I love cycling and hiking...but depending on which clown suit I am wearing that day...is how people react to me. Still the same person no matter what hat I am wearing.

You're right, I don't think every use is appropriate for every trail. I think e-bikes should be recognized as motorized and be used the same as a scooter on pavement or small dirt bike on trails. But I also acknowledge that they're aren't quite motorcycles either, at least in the modern definition.

And that's the problem, what I think personally doesn't always match other individuals and since trails are jointly owned we all get to have an opinion and someone is gonna be upset when they get overruled (which may match what I think is common sense or not as irrational mob rule).

For the sake of complete disclosure I think there's also enough distinction within completely human power bikes that the potential for conflicts is already there. We don't need to add motors to the already big bikes that are kind of the opposite side of the spectrum from me on my singlespeed hardtail. But as long as the uses are relatively similar & compatible and everyone is the slightly bit aware and courteous we can make it work.

Perhaps a rational compromise would be to say if you ride a lightweight cross country bike, hard tail, smaller tires, not built for big hit and do so at a speed limit you can share Wildeness trails. I think it's unfair to even lump all mountain bikes the same from a trail impact standpoint. I don't impact a trail any more than a horse or hiker with big boots since I can't rail and jump. I see some of the hard core all mountain and free ride trails here and they are becoming just as chunky and hard to ride up or down as moto trails, they really are.

 

[Clutch]

You're right, I don't think every use is appropriate for every trail. I think e-bikes should be recognized as motorized and be used the same as a scooter on pavement or small dirt bike on trails. But I also acknowledge that they're aren't quite motorcycles either, at least in the modern definition.

And that's the problem, what I think personally doesn't always match other individuals and since trails are jointly owned we all get to have an opinion and someone is gonna be upset when they get overruled (which may match what I think is common sense or not as irrational mob rule).

For the sake of complete disclosure I think there's also enough distinction within completely human power bikes that the potential for conflicts is already there. We don't need to add motors to the already big bikes that are kind of the opposite side of the spectrum from me on my singlespeed hardtail. But as long as the uses are relatively similar & compatible and everyone is the slightly bit aware and courteous we can make it work.

Since I ride a single speed...and have also owned roadie bikes, BMX's, XC's, DS's, and DH's. Don't really care what people ride...all I require is that we be polite and courteous to each other. Once you have that, all the rest doesn't matter. Though in this day and age I don't see that happening, unless of course we introduce China's social credit system.

Had one dude walking down the road yesterday as I was connecting trails give me a thumbs up, made my day. That is all we need to do to each other.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I don't care what anyone rides either but I think having me cranking up and walking through a trail is probably not fair to a guy on a moto or DH bicycle. Just like I don't like sucking exhaust and dust they probably don't care for me interrupting their flow. Haven't had the opportunity to actually own a road bike or DH, AM or a dirt bike for that matter. So I'm only assuming. But I get the feeling that I'm not supposed to be walking the jumps on the double blacks at our local trails...

 

[Clutch]

Perhaps a rational compromise would be to say if you ride a lightweight cross country bike, hard tail, smaller tires, not built for big hit and do so at a speed limit you can share Wildeness trails. I think it's unfair to even lump all mountain bikes the same from a trail impact standpoint. I don't impact a trail any more than a horse or hiker with big boots since I can't rail and jump. I see some of the hard core all mountain and free ride trails here and they are becoming just as chunky and hard to ride up or down as moto trails, they really are.

You know my stance on Wilderness...which is probably odd coming from a guy who likes to ride dirt bikes. I think true Wilderness should be void of humans. Lets put the "Wild" back in Wilderness.

Nips everything right in the bud...no squabbling over who gets let in or out. Lets treat everyone the same, and kick them all out.

And that view isn't even popular with Wilderness advocates.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Guess I don't see the point of herding everyone into fewer and fewer places. Seems like a hopeless outlook to believe we're barely better than cattle. I think we need wild places but the problem I think is our "wild" places are paved roads with entry gates, visitor centers, manicured surface trails. Yeah, IOW, the Edward Abbey railing against NPS. It's something I really don't understand. We (collectively) don't seem to really want wilderness. You're no different with your motorcycle. I'm no different with my bike.

BTW, on the Colorado Trail last year I saw the opposite effect, it seemed to me motos would rarely go more than about 20 miles from a trailhead where they parked so it really wasn't very hard to get away from them. I saw no one other than backpackers and MTBs for probably 80% of the 526 miles during that 3 weeks.

 

[Clutch]

I don't care what anyone rides either but I think having me cranking up and walking through a trail is probably not fair to a guy on a moto or DH bicycle. Just like I don't like sucking exhaust and dust they probably don't care for me interrupting their flow. Haven't had the opportunity to actually own a road bike or DH, AM or a dirt bike for that matter. So I'm only assuming. But I get the feeling that I'm not supposed to be walking the jumps on the double blacks at our local trails...

I get what you're saying. That would fall under the polite and courteous thing. "Maybe I shouldn't be on this particular trail, because..." or if you're on it...you should yield to oncoming traffic, and give those Mo-Fo's a thumbs up when they zip by.

There was moto trail yesterday that goes across a marshy meadow. I won't go on it because I feel it is too sensitive of an area to ride a dirt bike across.

The main issue I have is, long time moto trails are being commendered by other user groups because we are deemed "bad". The Boise Ridges to Rivers system was once moto...but they kicked the moto off. It is in the history of the trail system if you dig deep enough.

The trails I rode the past couple days were in excellent condition...you would be hard pressed to know they were used by motos.

This is some of my handy work I did in the spring. Look how nice that trail is, other than seeing a dirt bike track...you would never know that it is used heavily by dirt bikes.

 

[DaveInDenver]

It really does boil down to a person being mindful. If only it didn't require more courtesy, responsibility and humility to work the world would be perfect.

 

[Clutch]

Guess I don't see the point of herding everyone into fewer and fewer places.

My stance on Wilderness is more about taking the ball away from people who can't play nice together.

Though the thought of Wilderness being pure wilderness is appealing too. I mean, we are certainly ********** the planet up...

BTW, on the Colorado Trail last year I saw the opposite effect, it seemed to me motos would rarely go more than about 20 miles from a trailhead where they parked so it really wasn't very hard to get away from them. I saw no one other than backpackers and MTBs for probably 80% of the 526 miles during that 3 weeks.

It is the same everywhere, no matter what sport you do...the long distance crowd is fewer than the crowd who does loops around the beer cooler.

I have been wanting for years to do the Tour of Idaho or now there is another guy with his own route called Ridaho [GRIT].

Time and injuries have kept me from doing it.

http://ridaho.info

 

[Clutch]

It really does boil down to a person being mindful. If only it didn't require more courtesy, responsibility and humility to work the world would be perfect.

Yes sir!

It is kinda ridiculous that people fight over how we recreate. Most of us have jobs...the recreation is supposed to relieve some of the stress from those jobs, at least for a little bit...and not be a source of it.

My solution is try to stay away from people in general...and ride during off times and days. Saw an immense amount of tracks from the weekenders...didn't run into a soul while on trail Monday and Tuesday.

 

[Dalko43]

For the record, I believe Wilderness should be wild too, but I don't think that should preclude humans from visiting it and recreating in it on foot.

Some of the most memorable outdoor moments I've had occurred in wilderness areas. If you're not allowed to escape civilization by going into the wilderness, where can you escape to?