Is the Tacoma enough truck?

[DaveInDenver]

Your position is noted. I'd buy a diesel, yes. I ran out of fuel on our trip in September (had 20L with me, just that I hate jerry cans). Your use model isn't everyone's. Well I guess maybe most people's since I'm clearly outvoted in the market. But I've known for a long time that I was born in the wrong place or wrong time. I'm not a contemporary American in many ways.

 

[battleaxe]

The issue isn't that the Tundra is inherently less efficient than the other v8 gasoline trucks. The issue is that the Tundra only gives you a gasoline v8 option, while most of the other 1/2 ton makers are offering more efficient engine options, or are about to do so.

Absolutely. I won't disagree, but it's all about context. For example... Purchasing an F150 w/ Ecoboost vs a V8. The break even point on fuel savings 250-350,000 miles. It's basically a moot point. You think you're saving a ton of money...

One individual put it like this, and it makes sense to me "Toyota is a conservative company. All of their designs, including their engines, are over-engineered and derated to ensure longevity and reliability... Toyota, as a conservative company, would rather sell reliable, though inefficient, gasoline engines in its trucks and SUV’s than risk its reputation selling diesel systems with a greater tendency for malfunction."

This all due to the more stringent (and redundant) emissions requirements these days. (How many one ton diesel owners do you know that immediately pull all that garbage off their trucks?)

I digress, I've definitely taken this whole thing off the rails. Haha.

 

[Clutch]

Your position is noted. I'd buy a diesel, yes. I ran out of fuel on our trip in September (had 20L with me, just that I hate jerry cans). Your use model isn't everyone's. Well I guess maybe most people's since I'm clearly outvoted in the market. But I've known for a long time that I was born in the wrong place or wrong time. I'm not a contemporary American in many ways.

For how cheap you are? "If" Toyota announced they were were going to have a diesel Tacoma available tomorrow, a conservative estimate it would cost $40K... would you run out and buy one?

Heck, we can buy a diesel GM midsize right now...brand loyality aside. If range and not getting your hands dirty with jerry cans is such an issue for you? Why haven't you run out and bought one?

I would love 30mpg out of a truck...but I know my reasons, I am waaay too cheap...and don't want to deal with an out of warranty diesel...which would be in 2.4 short years of ownership under my thumb.

Absolutely. I won't disagree, but it's all about context. For example... Purchasing an F150 w/ Ecoboost vs a V8. The break even point on fuel savings 250-350,000 miles. It's basically a moot point. You think you're saving a ton of money...

Yep...splitting hairs in the end. And by the time you reach 250-350K miles. Any savings in fuel with the Eco-Boost will be eaten up by repair costs.

One individual put it like this, and it makes sense to me "Toyota is a conservative company. All of their designs, including their engines, are over-engineered and derated to ensure longevity and reliability... Toyota, as a conservative company, would rather sell reliable, though inefficient, gasoline engines in its trucks and SUV’s than risk its reputation selling diesel systems with a greater tendency for malfunction."

This all due to the more stringent (and redundant) emissions requirements these days. (How many one ton diesel owners do you know that immediately pull all that garbage off their trucks?)

And that is the issue....Toyota knows how to build an anvil reliable oil burner, however diesels are no longer able to run with only 1 wire...

 

[DaveInDenver]

For how cheap you are? You have said you're barely keeping your current Tacoma going. "If" Toyota announced they were were going to have a diesel Tacoma available tomorrow, a conservative estimate it would cost $40K... would you run out and buy one?

Heck, we can buy a diesel GM midsize right now...brand loyality aside. If range and not getting your hands dirty with jerry cans is such an issue for you? Why haven't you run out and bought one?

I would love 30mpg out of a truck...but I know my reasons, I am waaay too cheap...and don't want to deal with an out of warranty diesel...which would be in 2.4 short years of ownership under my thumb.

I'm not cheap, I'm a sensible dirtbag. You bet I'll spend whatever money is necessary once on something that then can just flitter back to being no longer worried about. I've seen two generations on one side of my family save and scrimp for the "when I retire" that never comes before they depart this world. I'm not gonna spend myself into poverty but I'm also not worried about shooting for 6 figures of digits at some arbitrary age milestone either.

I bought that 1991 and drove it forever because there was no reason not to. It did what I needed, didn't cost me a ton of money in the process. When it started to become inordinately more money than the value extracted I reluctantly bought the Tacoma because that's all there was and, yeah, I'm not totally content. It *hasn't* been the same kind of afterthought I hoped a Toyota truck would be.

I don't have a frame of reference since it's been a long time since I sold that Ranger to buy my FJ40, but I have this suspicion that Ford has improved just as much as Toyota has rested, so they are pretty much equal now. If Toyota punts the stick shift and Ford puts in a diesel, I don't see any reason to stay loyal.

 

[DaveInDenver]

BTW, the reality is I'll probably build this Tacoma into the truck I want since it's unlikely the Ranger will really ring any bells. The problem is the EPA requirements for a 2008 pretty much rule out practical & legal diesel swaps other than maybe a VW TDI.

 

[Clutch]

I'm not cheap, I'm a sensible dirtbag. You bet I'll spend whatever money is necessary once on something that then can just flitter back to being no longer worried about. I've seen two generations on one side of my family save and scrimp for the "when I retire" that never comes before they depart this world. I'm not gonna spend myself into poverty but I'm also not worried about shooting for 6 figures of digits at some arbitrary age milestone either.

I bought that 1991 and drove it forever because there was no reason not to. It did what I needed, didn't cost me a ton of money in the process. When it started to become inordinately more money than the value extracted I reluctantly bought the Tacoma because that's all there was and, yeah, I'm not totally content. It *hasn't* been the same kind of afterthought I hoped a Toyota truck would be.

I don't have a frame of reference since it's been a long time since I sold that Ranger to buy my FJ40, but I have this suspicion that Ford has improved just as much as Toyota has rested, so they are pretty much equal now. If Toyota punts the stick shift and Ford puts in a diesel, I don't see any reason to stay loyal.

Sooooo.... is that a yes or no, "if" Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma tomorrow?

 

[Buliwyf]

[Buy a Tundra.
Drive it for about 30,000 miles, then it dies.
Coast to a stop on the side of the road. Pop the hood.
Engine is completely missing. Gone. Nothing but a sticker on the radiator that say "You lose. Good day sir."
Tow to dealership.
Dealer won't warranty it because there's some water somewhere in Istanbul.
Pay $14,000 for repairs.
Insurance won't cover it because there's sand somewhere in Istanbul as well.]

Congrats, now you know what it's like to own a modern OEM diesel. I wonder how many complete fuel system replacements were just a simple metering valve, and maybe injectors?
-----------------------------------------------------------

If I can pick out a 1990-ish I4 mechanical fuel pump diesel engine with 125hp and 250tq, then sure, I'd love a diesel Taco. But a modern diesel engine pushed to it's ragged edge with 300hp, powder metal rods, and tons of expensive exhaust components? Nope.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Sooooo.... is that a yes or no, "if" Toyota offered a diesel Tacoma tomorrow?

Yes. I've had the money for 10 years just waiting for Toyota to take it.

Caveat being it has to be the regular 1KD (or similar D-4D engine). Not some special case just for NA like the 2GR-FKS. Since Europe and Australia and really most places are getting similar emissions laws I don't believe this should be impossible. The newer generation diesel they are getting in Europe for Euro-6 apparently have a lot of bugs worked out and they are even starting to eliminate the need for EGR like happened with gasoline engines some time ago.

 

[Clutch]

Yes. I've had the money for 10 years just waiting for Toyota to take it.

Caveat being it has to be the regular 1KD (or similar D-4D engine). Not some special case just for NA like the 2GR-FKS. Since Europe and Australia and really most places are getting similar emissions laws I don't believe this should be impossible. The newer generation diesel they are getting in Europe for Euro-6 apparently have a lot of bugs worked out and they are even starting to eliminate the need for EGR like happened with gasoline engines some time ago.

One catch, it is only available in the Pro DCSB with an auto...

Cause you know that is exactly what Toyota would do!

 

[toylandcruiser]

Ok I got you. Ford’s quality has improved. But let me call you out and go on record for this: IF, underline bold italics, you get a new truck, it’ll be a Toyota. Ford and others have made strides but Toyota seems to be still at the top. Ronny Dahl, on one of his videos within the last couple of years, said one of his mates sold his 79 saying it was too boring, and went with a Ford. After two years of constant fixing things, he went back to a 79.

I'll take a slight possible decrease in reliability in exchange for not having interiors that look and feel 10 years behind and severely lagging features and niceties any day. The interior of a Tundra or Sequoia looks ancient compared to anything made by the big three. And the switch gear and plastic just feels cheap. I just can't get over that. Toyota is relying on heritage to sell cars these days. That won't last.

They’re actually the small 3. Toyota is bigger than the domestics.

 

[DaveInDenver]

One catch, it is only available in the Pro DCSB with an auto...

Cause you know that is exactly what Toyota would do!

They probably wouldn't lock it to the Pro, I dunno. Maybe. In the U.S. they seem to divide haves and have-nots with the SR5, which I would do. If I had to buy a TRD Offroad to get a diesel then, sure, I might have to think about it. But yeah, probably. Automatic would be acceptable since that's becoming a given. Like I say, I'll stick with Toyota with a stick shift. No manual just means one less thing to keep me. It would still have to be a matter of someone else offering a reason to switch. Be that a *reliable* diesel, a global boxed frame, etc. You know the details I mean. If they all have similar neutered chassis, power windows, automatics behind gasoline engines then it's kind of a whatever, might as get the devil you know than the one you don't, so a Tacoma. I have lots of experience, metric tools and SSTs for Toyota after all.

 

[Bayou Boy]

They’re actually the small 3. Toyota is bigger than the domestics.

Nobody cares.

 

[bkg]

Are you going to pay for it?


The days of "cheap" and "diesel" are long gone...

There is more to a diesel than economy. The EPA has made it nearly impossible for a diesel to get what it could.

Drove to ATL last week in the f350 (cab, 2.5” carli, 35’s) and got 19 post regen. Got shy of 19 on the way home.

Best I ever got in my crew max was 18.

So unloaded, not much better. Hook a trailer up and the effort to drive the f350 is light years less than the tundra with the same load.

 

[Clutch]

There is more to a diesel than economy.

Not sure if I would used the word "economy" and diesel in the same sentence.

 

[Dalko43]

Absolutely. I won't disagree, but it's all about context. For example... Purchasing an F150 w/ Ecoboost vs a V8. The break even point on fuel savings 250-350,000 miles. It's basically a moot point. You think you're saving a ton of money...

One individual put it like this, and it makes sense to me "Toyota is a conservative company. All of their designs, including their engines, are over-engineered and derated to ensure longevity and reliability... Toyota, as a conservative company, would rather sell reliable, though inefficient, gasoline engines in its trucks and SUV’s than risk its reputation selling diesel systems with a greater tendency for malfunction."

This all due to the more stringent (and redundant) emissions requirements these days. (How many one ton diesel owners do you know that immediately pull all that garbage off their trucks?)

I digress, I've definitely taken this whole thing off the rails. Haha.

This is all true. And in over the past few decades, that strategy has served Toyota NA well. The question is: will that strategy keep Toyota competitive in the years to come? Domestic trucks, by-and-large, are a lot more reliable than they were in years past.

Personally, I'd love to see Toyota bring some turbo-gasolines or diesels into the North American truck market. The company has plenty of overseas experience with those engines, including the related emissions. I want Toyota to get involved and hold the OEM's feet to the fire when it comes to refining their own products.

There is more to a diesel than economy. The EPA has made it nearly impossible for a diesel to get what it could.

Drove to ATL last week in the f350 (cab, 2.5” carli, 35’s) and got 19 post regen. Got shy of 19 on the way home.

Best I ever got in my crew max was 18.

So unloaded, not much better. Hook a trailer up and the effort to drive the f350 is light years less than the tundra with the same load.

Keep in mind, you're comparing a modified F-250 to a stock Tundra. Never mind that we're talking about two entirely different classes of vehicles, for the F-250's weight and the power of that 6.7l (that thing is tuned to be a hot-rod rather than a commercial workhorse), 19 mpg highway is fairly impressive. And the OEM's could probably squeeze a few more mpg's out of those HD engines if they prioritized efficiency over torque bragging rights.