Is there any expedition willys out there?
- Thread starter Rubicon4URE
- Start date
Rubicon4URE
Adventurer
Is there any information out there that tells me how to do all this? Or am i on my own with just advice here and there?
SteveJ
New member
Ive had my 52 M38 since 97. Its much like your MB but it is a little slower as the MB will do 60 mph. The M38 has 5.38 axel ratios and likes it about 45. Ive covered a lot of ground with it on and off road in the rockies. I pull a 1/4 ton military trailer for my extra gear. Its been a tow truck a snow plow and a home away from home. Its pretty much stock with exception of electronic ignition and 11" self adjusting drum brakes (from a 66 wagoneer that bolt right on. Ive never had any drivetrain problems other than some oil leaks. It leads a more pampered life now and does mostly military displays and shows. Just a suggestion get yours running and try it out to see if it meets your needs before you do major surgery to it. In its pure form you will always get your money out of a WW2 jeep and keep it for a bit and you will make money on it. Just my thought. Very cool unit though.
Rubicon4URE
Adventurer
I havent bought it yet but based and the only picture i have what is the value of it roughly? It was running 5-6 years ago i am told and looks 100% all there?
SheepnJeep
Active member
Well you certainly have some options. Building on what others have said...
If that jeep is indeed a '42 and in good original condition, you could repair it and and sell it for a much more common yet similar CJ2A or CJ3A. Or you could restore it and enjoy it for what it is. My opinion is that real WW2 production jeeps should be restored back to original, but that is just me. If that isn't your deal there are a couple of things you could do.
If you wanted to keep the jeep in stock-ish condition but still go wheeling with it, I would recommend that you make a couple of upgrades. First you could replace the original T-84 transmission for a stronger T-90 from the later era jeeps. Both are three speeds. Second you could take out the stock axles and replace them with later models as well. Later jeeps had a similar front axle (dana 25) and a stronger Dana 41 or Dana 44 in the rear. These are both 10 spline axles in the earlier days (I think). Neither one is stronger in stock form. The advantage with going with a 44 is the option of upgrade parts like a locker or higher spline count axles. Most of these axles will be stock with 5.38 gears. Military jeeps had something more like 4.88s. As for the engine you can make it work. Be sure to find a professionally rebuilt carburetor or do a proper job yourself. Or find a small Holley and tune it for the engine. A Solex carb is easy to find but will never quite work right. Then tune the ignition properly. Later jeeps have vacuum advance distributors that you could use. You could use a high output ignition module such as an MSD unit for stronger spark. Higher compression heads exist if you can find a 'High altitude' head or one from a Kaiser Supersonic version of the engine. Overdrives are available and really increase the road use. Last but not least find a real set of tires to put on it. You can find Cooper Discoverers in 215/85r16 that should fit and they would work great.
Another option is tossing the entire drivetrain out the window and replacing it. A Buick dauntless v6 came stock in later CJ5s and is a good option as mentioned. They fit, make good power, sound cool, and are lighter than the stock flathead. You could get very lucky and take the whole drivetrain out of a CJ5. A T-90 transmission will work behind the V6. A better option would be a T18 four speed. Stock axles would would do if you are careful.They will snap if you aren't. Or you could replace the axles with late model units and get disc brakes and everything. Chevy V8s fit if you cut the firewall for the distributor. Ford engines also work but are much less popular. You have to be careful setting up an engine swap so your drivelines aren't too short. You also have to consider how you are going to make a radiator work, etc. If you have an interest in a particular engine give it a search. Almost everything has been done.
Sorry if this has been too long winded. I went with rebuilding to stock and enjoying it. I have a top and a heater for options. I have added a winch on the front and the back so now I no longer care about getting stuck. I also have a roll bar and disc brakes for safety. These jeeps are plenty capable stock if you aren't afraid to be bold offroad and keep up with maintenance. The biggest drag about these things is that you are pretty much limited to 40 mph realistically. With 5.38 gears that is about maxing out the rpm of a stock engine. For me part of the fun is finding routes that allow those speeds. So far I have suffered 0 breakdowns in 6 years of driving. Very fun and a great hobby to tinker with.
Some resources include the 3b page, the 3a page, the 2a page, G503.com, and the Early CJ5 page. The 3b page is awesome and very well organized but all of the others have the info you need.
Hopefully this doesn't repost, I got flagged I think for trying to include website links.
Have fun!
If that jeep is indeed a '42 and in good original condition, you could repair it and and sell it for a much more common yet similar CJ2A or CJ3A. Or you could restore it and enjoy it for what it is. My opinion is that real WW2 production jeeps should be restored back to original, but that is just me. If that isn't your deal there are a couple of things you could do.
If you wanted to keep the jeep in stock-ish condition but still go wheeling with it, I would recommend that you make a couple of upgrades. First you could replace the original T-84 transmission for a stronger T-90 from the later era jeeps. Both are three speeds. Second you could take out the stock axles and replace them with later models as well. Later jeeps had a similar front axle (dana 25) and a stronger Dana 41 or Dana 44 in the rear. These are both 10 spline axles in the earlier days (I think). Neither one is stronger in stock form. The advantage with going with a 44 is the option of upgrade parts like a locker or higher spline count axles. Most of these axles will be stock with 5.38 gears. Military jeeps had something more like 4.88s. As for the engine you can make it work. Be sure to find a professionally rebuilt carburetor or do a proper job yourself. Or find a small Holley and tune it for the engine. A Solex carb is easy to find but will never quite work right. Then tune the ignition properly. Later jeeps have vacuum advance distributors that you could use. You could use a high output ignition module such as an MSD unit for stronger spark. Higher compression heads exist if you can find a 'High altitude' head or one from a Kaiser Supersonic version of the engine. Overdrives are available and really increase the road use. Last but not least find a real set of tires to put on it. You can find Cooper Discoverers in 215/85r16 that should fit and they would work great.
Another option is tossing the entire drivetrain out the window and replacing it. A Buick dauntless v6 came stock in later CJ5s and is a good option as mentioned. They fit, make good power, sound cool, and are lighter than the stock flathead. You could get very lucky and take the whole drivetrain out of a CJ5. A T-90 transmission will work behind the V6. A better option would be a T18 four speed. Stock axles would would do if you are careful.They will snap if you aren't. Or you could replace the axles with late model units and get disc brakes and everything. Chevy V8s fit if you cut the firewall for the distributor. Ford engines also work but are much less popular. You have to be careful setting up an engine swap so your drivelines aren't too short. You also have to consider how you are going to make a radiator work, etc. If you have an interest in a particular engine give it a search. Almost everything has been done.
Sorry if this has been too long winded. I went with rebuilding to stock and enjoying it. I have a top and a heater for options. I have added a winch on the front and the back so now I no longer care about getting stuck. I also have a roll bar and disc brakes for safety. These jeeps are plenty capable stock if you aren't afraid to be bold offroad and keep up with maintenance. The biggest drag about these things is that you are pretty much limited to 40 mph realistically. With 5.38 gears that is about maxing out the rpm of a stock engine. For me part of the fun is finding routes that allow those speeds. So far I have suffered 0 breakdowns in 6 years of driving. Very fun and a great hobby to tinker with.
Some resources include the 3b page, the 3a page, the 2a page, G503.com, and the Early CJ5 page. The 3b page is awesome and very well organized but all of the others have the info you need.
Hopefully this doesn't repost, I got flagged I think for trying to include website links.
Have fun!
Last edited:
snekvasil
Adventurer
Beautiful Willys. What tires are you running on there?
Rubicon4URE
Adventurer
That was a big help thankyou!
Rubicon4URE
Adventurer
What year is this willys? CJ2a? I Love the look of it!
Desert Dan
Explorer
Oops Should have been Rubicon4URE
fuoristrada camper
Observer
The Cj2a is a 1948 , Euro specs build for Swiss army . Got it a few years back , was clean not perfect, and as many non MB-GPW Jeeps here in Europe painted in Us army colors.
Restauration pictures here : http://www.jeepclub.be/content/default.asp?a=HERITAGE&sa=FLATTIE (sorry for the language )
The tires are a remould version of the Firestone SAT 6.50-16 .
You will notice it has the MB style soft top , due to his military origin , it was in 6 volt . And as all Euro specs early Willys, it does not have the side spare wheel , because this was forbidden here in Europe ( and surely in Switserland)
And my opnion , if you buy a Willys you have two options , you participate in protecting our heritage and keep it in good shape and as Original as possible , or you make a "toy" from it and you can go offroading.
But in my opinion there's a difference between " go play a bit" and go overlanding" .I even think there's a differend way about thinking "Overland travel" between you guys there and here in Europe .
We are just back from a + 7500km scouting trip towards Morocco with our Rubi. 2000 km over French & Spanish highways , 3500 km offroad trough Rekkam , Atlas and Sahara , and then back home again. So that's what we call a small overland trip over here. And that kind off stuff I will definitly not do with my Flattie , as much as I'm in love with it
Last summer we've been towards Murmansk with the Man truck , let's call that "a medium overland trip , driving to Mongolia, China , South Africa , or doing the Panamerican is what we call here the real Overland stuff
Grts
Restauration pictures here : http://www.jeepclub.be/content/default.asp?a=HERITAGE&sa=FLATTIE (sorry for the language )
The tires are a remould version of the Firestone SAT 6.50-16 .
You will notice it has the MB style soft top , due to his military origin , it was in 6 volt . And as all Euro specs early Willys, it does not have the side spare wheel , because this was forbidden here in Europe ( and surely in Switserland)
And my opnion , if you buy a Willys you have two options , you participate in protecting our heritage and keep it in good shape and as Original as possible , or you make a "toy" from it and you can go offroading.
But in my opinion there's a difference between " go play a bit" and go overlanding" .I even think there's a differend way about thinking "Overland travel" between you guys there and here in Europe .
We are just back from a + 7500km scouting trip towards Morocco with our Rubi. 2000 km over French & Spanish highways , 3500 km offroad trough Rekkam , Atlas and Sahara , and then back home again. So that's what we call a small overland trip over here. And that kind off stuff I will definitly not do with my Flattie , as much as I'm in love with it
Last summer we've been towards Murmansk with the Man truck , let's call that "a medium overland trip , driving to Mongolia, China , South Africa , or doing the Panamerican is what we call here the real Overland stuff
Grts
SteveJ
New member
I sold my 1943 GPW for $5000 It was a good runner but needed total restoration including floors. Have a good look underneath and in the fuel tank well for rust also the inside of the front fenders as they rust out at the hat channels. Most of these have sat out for years in the elements so there will be issues but these can be negotiation points. There should be some brass data plates on the glove box but they are often missing. Also for a Willys MB thee should be an aluminum tag riveted to one of the front frame rails with the serial number stamped on it. Almost everything you will need to restore it will be available through the G503 site also look on the MVPA site. They have some great publications dedicated to miitary vehicles and the restoration of. If its even close to being complete and a runner I would snap it up. I would say unrestored as is price $2000 to $3500 would be a good value anything less would be a great deal for an original WW2 one. Just my thought.
SteveJ
New member
I had a good look at the picture you posted and it does look to be quite complete though it may have been converted to 12 volt hence the dual horns behind the grill and the electric wipers. If there are no data plates and you are not sure what you have there are a few quick tells. First if it is a Willys or a Ford? The front crossmember of the Willys just behind the grill is round. On the Ford GPW it is an inverted U. The tool boxes in the rear fender wells on the Willys are flat. On the Ford they have a stamped ridge around the lid. In early 1942 on the rear panel of the jeep to the left of where the spare mounts there may be stamped the word WILLYs or in the case of FORD then !! If its later 1942 no words on either. In early 1942 The Willys Grill was vertical welded bars. The Ford was a stamped grill like the one on yours. Once Willys realized the ford grill was way faster and easier to produce they switched to that late in 1942. I always find it Amusing when Chrysler/Dodge uses the Iconic jeep grill in their logo that its really a Ford Part.
This is why you restore these as the research is part of the adventure. And as the gentleman from Europe said its better to haul a jeep like this behind your prime mover to where you want to play then take it out.
:smiley_drive:
shays4me
Willing Wanderer
I know a lot of people woud give their eye teeth for a clean original MB. IMO, i would buy it and resell it once its running, or restore it and enjoy it. If it was incomplete I'd say build it, but there are fewer and fewer stock flat fenders left. I'd love to have a stock MB. It's like the Genesis of Jeep.....or maybe the Exodus, I don't know..