Isuzu NPR Camper

[VicHanson]

I have been looking at Toyota motorhomes for my upcoming retirement but have just started considering buying an Isuzu NPR cab-over truck and custom building a motorhome box on it. I have seen the ones here that mount a trailer or truck camper on the truck, but I would rather go the custom built route. Has anyone had experience doing this? What kind of issues do I need to be aware of? I am experienced at woodworking but have never done a project of this magnitude.

Is a wood frame sufficient or is it better (and lighter) to use aluminum?

The only motorhome plans I have been able to find are at http://www.glen-l.com/campers/wildwood.html . Has anyone had experience using them?

I would like to have a walk-through opening from the cab to the camper.

Is the cab too high to use a cab-over bed?

I'm not really looking for an expedition vehicle, ie 4x4, but would like it to be able to handle forest service roads, fire roads and other moderate off-pavement routes for boondocking, hiking and exploring. I plan to travel and live in it as much as possible, so am looking for reliability and good fuel economy.

Would I have starting problems with a diesel in 20 to 30 degree winter weather?

Thanks for any help and advice anyone can offer.

Vic

 

[Hilldweller]

Check with member Doug Hackney:
http://www.hackneys.com/travel/
Especially his truck:
http://www.hackneys.com/mitsu/

See where he hangs out on the forum.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Hi Vic. Just wrote a really long reply to this and lost it, so this is the short version.

Check out the Mitsubishi Heavy Truck Threads

NPRs are very close to FEs although the threads there are mainly about the FG and some info on the NPS which are of course the 4x4 versions from Isuzu and Fuso.

I've had a '93 NPR and a '96 FE short wheelbase. Oh and a 8ton GVM FH which has the same cab from the FE. The NPR in that year had a narrow cab or a wide cab. If you intend to make a pass through then go the wide cab. Also the turbo models are much better performers on hills and at altitude. Go for a LSD upgrade if it doesn't already have one too..

Basically ( and I stress this is my opinion) the NPR is very strong, reliable. The FE is more comfortable and is usually lighter and therefore slightly more payload. I preferred to drive the FE but never had a bit of trouble with any of those 3 trucks except a power steering pump failure which was my own fault when I got stuck in some deep ruts and turned too hard on the steering wheel.

There are literally 1000's of NPR based motorhomes here which have a berth over the cab but no way I'd ever own a truck I couldn't tilt the cab.

Of course if you are looking at a new truck, then the "09 NPR is hands down the best truck by far. Traction control, ABS disc brakes, airbags, hill start assist, mutimedia, navigation, reverse cameras, sport shift auto transmission, variable nozzle turbo, blah, blah, blah.

Is a wood frame sufficient or is it better (and lighter) to use aluminum?

Check out Mickldo 's sig line. He does very good aluminum body work. You might get some ideas there. Wood is OK but it's all in how you fasten in. Plenty of Liquid Nails (that's what we call the glue anyway) . Used to build offroad caravans with full wood interiors and everything was stapled or screwed and glued but at the end of the day it's the type of glue that makes all the difference to how it stands up to the washboard roads.

Good luck with it. Hope this helps.

 

[VicHanson]

I've looked at the Fuso threads and read about the frame problems and pivot frame mount, guess I should have mentioned that. Is this a problem with the NPR as well?

Doug's FG/Bigfoot is beautiful and very impressive, but is way overkill for what I am needing. I should have also said that although I am living in the Andes mountains of Peru now, I will be retiring back in the U.S. I will probably pull my CRV for exploring on the back roads, canyons and mountains. If it is too rough for the CRV I will be walking or maybe riding a dirt bike.

I will be definitely looking for a used vehicle, 10 or more years old, new is not in the budget.

Oh, thanks much Mate for the reminder of the tilt cab! I had forgotten about that! How much clearance do they need to tilt? Sorry you lost the long version, I hate it when that happens! Thanks for redoing it!

I have a brother-in-law who is a CAT mechanic, and has restored everything from old CATs and tractors, to an old steam engine and a saw mill. So, I will be looking to him for advice, help and his well equipped shop!

Vic

 

[haven]

"I've looked at the Fuso threads and read about the frame problems"

Please note that the problems described are due to carrying loads beyond the specs for the truck, and by poor design of the subframe linking the camper to the truck frame rails. It's likely that any vehicle, not just the Fuso FG, would suffer damage under these conditions.

The reason we spend so much time talking about the Fuso FG is that it's the only cab-forward medium duty 4x4 sold in USA. The Isuzu NPS 250 and 300 4x4 models are very impressive. They're not imported to USA, unfortunately.

The truck I'd like to see is the Isuzu FSS 550, a 4x4 model with 6 cylinder diesel engine and GVWR up to 22,000 lbs (10,000 kg). The lucky folks in Australia buy these for off-road fire fighting and use in mining operations.

As to the question of wooden construction, it's certainly possible. Here's an example built by Hardy Hornberg from marine plywood:

 

[kerry]

Nobody's answered the 'starting in cold weather' question yet. No, there will not be a problem at those temperatures. My FG has glow plugs that actuate below xx degrees (40?). It starts right up. You may need a block heater at temperatures below about 10 degrees below zero. You'll also have to winterize your fuel. But I would not worry about cold start issues until you start using it at temperatures below 20 below zero.
I'll try to attach a picture which I believe I've attached somewhere else in the Mitsubishi forum of an FG with a truck box on the back that was converted to a camper by a guy in upstate NY. I was considering the purchase of the vehicle a few years ago. I think it is still for sale, or at least it was the last time I checked.

Ooops the forum won't let me attach them again since they are already in other threads. Search on my user name and look at threads with titles that are relevant to your interest and I think you'll find them

 

[VicHanson]

Thanks Chip and Kerry. I just finished reading about Doug's travels and frame problems, wow, quite an experience! Is a solid camper to frame attachment OK on the NPR if you stay well below the GVWR and stay off of the rough jeep tracks in the U.S.? The worst road I have been on with my CRV is the White Rim Road at Island in the Sky in Canyonlands NP. I suppose I would want to try it there, but very slowly.

I haven't found the the FG you mentioned yet, Kerry, got too distracted reading Doug's story. Will have to look again soon.

Vic

PS Don't know where else to ask so I will ask here. How do I put a title line below my name on my posts? I can't find any way to do it but I see you almost all have one. Thanks.

 

[whatcharterboat]

I've looked at the Fuso threads and read about the frame problems and pivot frame mount, guess I should have mentioned that. Is this a problem with the NPR as well?

Hi Vic, It was in the long version. Haha.

OK It is very doubtful that you would ever have an issue with an NPR chassis. For a start they are 6mm instead of 4.5mm like the FE and FG and they are straight. When Fuso decided to make a 4x4. They simply cut a an FE in half behind the gearbox and put a diff under the front. Then added a step in the chassis to get the extra hieght and then riveted the front half, step and rear back together. Isuzu made new rails when they made tyhe NPS from the NPR with the step shaped into the rails but they are still in one piece and as they are 6mm , they are so much stronger than the FG. So to sum up the NPR is stronger than all of them by a long way.

Interestingly the '09 NPS has altered suspension geometry so that it can have straight rails and they are 850mm apart instead of 750mm. Stronger again.

I will be definitely looking for a used vehicle, 10 or more years old, new is not in the budget.

No worries. Mechanical injection pump. No electronics to go wrong. Very reliable. Don't be afraid to get one with a few hundred thousand kays on the clock either. They'll do a lot of miles before they need attention if they've been maitained.

 

[whatcharterboat]

How much clearance do they need to tilt?

If you really want to know I'll measure it for you. We've got an old NPS around here which should be the same as the NPR but I wouldn't worry about it. Just run the camper body straight up behind the cab like in the pic Chip posted. Don't go over it at all. Keep all the weight as low as you can too.

The truck I'd like to see is the Isuzu FSS 550, a 4x4 model with 6 cylinder diesel engine and GVWR up to 22,000 lbs (10,000 kg). The lucky folks in Australia buy these for off-road fire fighting and use in mining operations.

Hi Chip. Get my PM??? If you ge a chance have a look at the specs for the new '09 FSS 550. They've ditched the old 6 and now run the new generation 4 cyclinder that's in all the N series. Shows you how much potential they have.They are all run different computers to give various power characteristics. The FSS has 205hp. The NPR 450 has 185 and the NPS's and NPR's have 155hp. We can swap 2 components and get the same power as the FSS in the NPS. 205hp. How cool is that? And the fuel consumpion is still virtually unaffected. In fact some of the guys are saying it's better because they aren't laboring the motor as much on the hills.

Also I've heard a rumour that we may see an NPS 450 (7.5 or 8 ton GVM) next year. The Prototype has been built but the problem has been in sourcing a suitable Nuffield diff.

Nobody's answered the 'starting in cold weather' question yet. No, there will not be a problem at those temperatures.

Hi Kerry. One thing Isuzu fall short of is the size of the battery banks> They are always too small compared too the FG for example which is probably an overkill. In cold you want overkill. Battery capacity drops away in cold weather. Maybe as much as 20% depending how cold. Now if the battery bank is small to start with , the cold could cause problems for sure. Have a look at what's on an FG. For cold , then definitely increase the size even if it means fabricating a new tray.

I don't know what cold is living where I do but the N series and F series even give us trouble here. If they don't start first click you've got a problem.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Wood construction

Vic, wood would be fine as a material but how it is assembled and held together is critical. I've perused the the Glen-L plans you mentioned and that construction method would be fine for a pavement only camper but if your considering soft roads a stiffer box is desirable.

The typical way to accomplish this is using fiberglass to reinforce the plywood as most mechanical fastenings will eventually work loose. Off hand I can't think of a comprehensive source for info on building a camper, but in the boat building world, lots of ink has been spilled describing various techniques to build strong, light weight hulls. Google 'stich and glue' or wander over to woodenboat.com and join their forum and ask for suggested reading.

Good luck,

Jim

 

[VicHanson]

Thanks for you comments, John and Jim. I had a chance to look at and measure some on a Isuzu Elf today, it was parked in front of my house. It is smaller than an NPR but it gave me some ideas. The driver said the tilt cab needs about 15 to 20 cm of clearance (6-8"). I still want a cabover bed so am working on some ideas. I may post a link to my working file here so you can have a laugh at my crazy ideas and comment if you would like. I just read the "tilt camper" thread on the Fuso page. I haven't had time to check out the stitch and glue method yet for strong wood construction, but will soon. I was thinking today of the need for more insulation and a stronger construction, so thought about using 1x2s for framing, but turn them sideways just like 2x4s in normal building construction (at least normal in the U.S.), rather than flat like the Glen-L plans show. That would allow for twice as thick of insulation and also for using 2x4s flat for the corners for more strength. Then the walls could be nailed (or screwed) and glued, like regular construction.

I was trying to sketch up some plans but didn't have any graph paper so it wasn't coming out to scale. Then I noticed the 4x8 sheets of plywood against the wall (I have no storage room here) so laid 4 of them out on the floor as a 7 foot by 15 1/2 foot 'floor plan', and 'built' my camper on the floor using chairs, boxes, a mattress and various other things I have laying around, including a screen door. It gave me a feel for the size and how it will all fit together. It is bigger than I expected, which is great! Looking at the NPRs on Truckpaper.com I see that most of the boxes on them are 14' x 92" or 16' x 96". I was looking at an outside dimension of 16' x 90" so I could go another 6" wider, but maybe narrower is better in the wild.

Anyway, will try to post some pics of my living room camper model.

Vic

 

[kerry]

Here's the thread with the pictures of the Fuso cargo box camper:

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22129&highlight=upstate

 

[VicHanson]

Thanks for the link, Kerry. Duh, I feel like an idiot! I have been spending lot's of time thinking about how to do a cabover bed and didn't even stop to think that the pass through to the cab is a bigger problem! I would like to see the one that ttravis mentioned.

I did draw up a floorplan today for a rear bed model. Would probably still put a storage unit above the cab if needed, with a top hinge to swing it out of the way to tilt the cab. Although by raising the bed up a bit, I can design quite a bit of storage below it.

 

[VicHanson]

Updated floor plans

Doing lots of thinking about the camper layout, here is a new floorplan, as well as my notes about how/what I want to build. Any comments or better ideas are most welcome.

Chassis mount on Isuzu NPR tilt cab truck, 133 in. WB, 175 hp diesel, 5-speed, dual fuel tanks, years 2000 – 2004, less than 150,000 miles.
1x2 wood construction, but placed sideways like normal 2x4 construction, 2x4 placed flat for corners and top of walls, Styrofoam insulation, aluminum skin, steel (or oak?) framed base. Outside dimensions are 7 ½' wide and 16' long, by 7 feet (84”) high .
All windows are sliding with screens, coach will not have air conditioning. Bath and galley roof vents, with fan.
Bathroom includes a shower, hot water provided by passive solar water heater on the roof above shower (also an outside shower).
Mattress will probably be an air mattress, maybe foam. Use a 1 foot filler board for table bed.
Refrigerator – an Energy Star model, 5 – 6 cu. ft., 2 door, manual defrost, 120 v. only, 2” Styrofoam on all surfaces except back.
120 W of solar panels on roof, fixed flat mount, 2000 W (4000 W surge) inverter, 4 deep cycle 6V batteries.
Backup/emergency power will be a Honda generator, as small as feasible (1500 – 2000 W?).
When needed, heat will be by a propane catalytic heater, (no fan), mounted under driver's side bench, or movable on feet, with CO detector.
Shelves will be a magazine/book rack unit on top, closed storage area on bottom.
Lighting will be LED, inside and out.
Fresh water – 40 gal., Gray water – 20 gal., Black water – 20 gal.?
2 burner gas grill on outside, tilt up or slide out, awning on refrigerator side, 20 lb. propane tank, use solar cooker when possible.
Pass through to cab if at all possible, find way to do it (working on this).
Motorcycle/bike rack on front of truck, storage boxes under camper on truck frame, air foil/deflector on roof of cab.

 

[VicHanson]

floorplan, over cab bed

And here is what I really want, with a over cab bed.

Chassis mount on Isuzu NPR tilt cab truck, 133 in. WB, 175 hp diesel, 5-speed, dual fuel tanks, years 2000 – 2004, less than 150,000 miles.
1x2 wood construction, but placed sideways like normal 2x4 construction, 2x4 placed flat for corners and top of walls, Styrofoam insulation, aluminum skin, steel (or oak?) framed base. Outside dimensions are 7 ½' wide and 16' long, by 7 feet (84”) high .
All windows are sliding with screens, coach will not have air conditioning. Bath and galley roof vents, with fan.
Bathroom includes a shower, hot water provided by passive solar water heater on the roof above shower (also an outside shower).
Mattress will probably be an air mattress, maybe foam. Use a 1 foot filler board for table bed.
Refrigerator – an Energy Star model, 5 – 6 cu. ft., 2 door, manual defrost, 120 v. only, 2” Styrofoam on all surfaces except back.
120 W of solar panels on roof – fixed flat mount, 2000 W (4000 W surge) inverter, 4 deep cycle 6V batteries.
Backup/emergency power will be a Honda generator, as small as feasible (1500 – 2000 W?).
When needed, heat will be by a propane catalytic heater, (no fan), mounted under driver's side bench, or movable on feet, with CO detector.
Shelves will be a magazine/book rack unit on top, closed storage area on bottom.
Lighting will be LED, inside and out.
Fresh water – 40 gal., Gray water – 20 gal., Black water – 20 gal.?
2 burner gas grill on outside, tilt up or slide out, awning on refrigerator side, 20 lb. propane tank, use solar cooker when possible.
Pass through to cab if at all possible, find way to do it. Tilt up overcab bed with piano hinge on top, guides on bottom, rubber seal all around opening.
Motorcycle/bike rack on front of truck, storage boxes under camper on truck frame.