ITTOG's Truck Camper Build (was 6' x 12' Trailer Conversion)

[ITTOG]

You do realize that a V8 is a serious downgrade...lol. You'll have far less power when you need it, it will be downshifting more often, and to top it off it will have to spin at 4,000+ rpms to get the job done. I've towed the same exact enclosed trailer with a 5.0 and 3.5, the 3.5 did every single thing better... Except it got one less mpg whilst towing.

My 2.7 has pulled a 7k travel trailer through all kinds of mountains. I set the cruise at 70-75 and it has no problems with hills, merging, or hitting the left hand lane to pass slow drivers. Zero issues in 50k.

Also... The only way you'll blow a 3.5 is by doing something completely stupid. My brothers is running a set of Full Race turbos and tubular manifolds, Snow meth kit, and a very aggressive tune. He's probably around 600+ RWHP and his hasn't flinched.


See for yourself, the 5.0 gets trounced:

I test drove the V8 F150 before the ecoboost. It was clearly detuned to push people to the ecoboost so they meet their environmental requirements. Ford has pretty much stated this as well. I do not know how it would stand against the ecoboost if it wasn't detuned. If I put a supercharger on it then I would think the V8 would win. With all that said, my comments are relative to my own experience. My 2007 Tundra with a 5.7L will beat my ecoboost easily in a 1/8 mile run. Not sure about 1/4 due to never taking them to the track. The 1/8 mile was on the street and any further would be too dangerous. A friend has a SS Camaro and it beats the ecoboost easily as well. So yes, the V8 in the Fords are garbage and the ecoboost is faster but not the case for all V8 vehicles. Again, I don't know your experience by my Tundra does not increase RPM's anymore than 200 or 300 when towing the same trailer and the transmission is never hunting gears. As for blowing the 3.5 go to your Ford dealer and talk to them about it. I have been to two different dealers and both tell me they see several blown motors a month with most being less than 100,000 miles. More of the failures are on gen 1 eco's. So it does happen and I would call that frequently. Now, were these the result of tunes or modifications? I do not know.

How much do you expect to be using adhesive in the core portion of that ACM material? Polyethylene is notoriously difficult to get anything to bond. I believe the folks at West Systems list their GFlex as an option. 3M 5200 is pretty damn permanent on aluminum. Those are both marine-centric options. I believe the standard in RVs is Sikaflex 221 and fasteners, maybe? Finally, I have seen some impressive videos of 3M’s VHB tape. Just suggesting as a few starting places to begin your search, of course.

My goal for the adhesive is for butt and angle (90 degree) "welding" the panels. Obviously most of the material being bonded is the PE so it is important it works with PE. I prefer to not need aluminum overlay to help keep it water tight so I will have to do some testing (if required I may put the overlay on the inside if butting two panels together isn't too visible. I plan to use the VHB tape to attach the skin to my frame. The tape will serve two purposes, fastening and keeping the Aluminum skin separated from the steel frame. I prefer to not use any screws given it introduces a leak point but will if I have to. So a lot of testing will be required before I can finalize my application. I have added info on surface prep for the Lords adhesive below.

EDIT: I contacted Lord and they said it will not bond the PE and they will need to change that wording.

Thanks for the other suggestions.





Surface Preparation – Remove grease, loose contamination or poorly adhering oxides from metal surfaces. Normal amounts of mill oils and drawing compounds usually do not present a problem in adhesion. Most plastics require a simple cleaning before bonding. Some may require abrading for optimum performance.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

I test drove the V8 F150 before the ecoboost. It was clearly detuned to push people to the ecoboost so they meet their environmental requirements. Ford has pretty much stated this as well. I do not know how it would stand against the ecoboost if it wasn't detuned. If I put a supercharger on it then I would think the V8 would win. With all that said, my comments are relative to my own experience. My 2007 Tundra with a 5.7L will beat my ecoboost easily in a 1/8 mile run. Not sure about 1/4 due to never taking them to the track. The 1/8 mile was on the street and any further would be too dangerous. A friend has a SS Camaro and it beats the ecoboost easily as well. So yes, the V8 in the Fords are garbage and the ecoboost is faster but not the case for all V8 vehicles. Again, I don't know your experience by my Tundra does not increase RPM's anymore than 200 or 300 when towing the same trailer and the transmission is never hunting gears. As for blowing the 3.5 go to your Ford dealer and talk to them about it. I have been to two different dealers and both tell me they see several blown motors a month with most being less than 100,000 miles. More of the failures are on gen 1 eco's. So it does happen and I would call that frequently. Now, were these the result of tunes or modifications? I do not know.

The new 5.0 makes plenty of power and it is far from being "garbage," it has roughly the same HP/TQ as other V8 in the 1/2 ton market (excluding Chevys 6.2) The EcoBoost out performs it because the powerband starts so low. By the time the 5.0 starts to make power, the EcoBoost has already hit its peak HP/TQ, shifted to the next gear, and is peaking again. There is no comparison, the 5.0 will lose every time, even more so when towing or off road. I have had both motors in work trucks...while both were trouble free and did the job well, the 3.5 out preformed the 5.0 every single time.

Even with a performance tune, the 5.0 can barely hang with a stock 3.5. Put a performance tune on a 3.5 and it will flat out humiliate a tuned 5.0. A supercharged 5.0 is powerful, but a 3.5 with aftermarket turbos (which are cheaper than a supercharger for a 5.0) will once again humiliate the 5.0. No matter how you spin it, the 3.5 comes out on top when it comes to 1/2 ton performance. The only V8 that can hang with it is the 6.2, and it does it at the expense of poor MPG and having to be in a high end truck.

Please...Google "full boost launch 3.5 EcoBoost." Master that and your Tundra will feel like it was as slow as a 1985 Dodge Caravan loaded with kids...lol. If you are just putting the peddle to the floor and waiting for something to happen with your 3.5, you are not using the EcoBoost to its fullest potential.

Your truck has the 10 speed, it's designed to bounce from gear to gear in order to get the most performance/economy from the motor. Your Tundra had an archaic transmission that belongs back in the 1990s. It allows the motor to lug and then down shifts and lets the RPMs rise...my 2009 did it, it was great back then, but transmissions have gotten much better since then....Toyota missed the memo.

The "blown motors" is always funny to me. The F150 is the best selling 1/2 ton on the market and has been for years... It's common sense that shops would see lots of failures...they sold millions of them. It's no different than seeing a salvage yards full of Toyota Camrys... Are there so may because they are a POS or because they out sold similar vehicles?

Many of the "blown" 3.5s are tuned by complete morons or driven by morons. Companies like SSI promise huge HP gains and sacrifice reliability and durability to get them... And there is no shortage of victim's with holes in pistons who fell for it (I went woth Brew City Boost).

As for 1/4 mile times, mine runs low 13s. I have beaten no shortage of lighter weight, V8 powered vehicles (if I was 4x4 or ran drag radials I'd be in the high 12s) My brothers F150 is in the low 11s, he destroys plenty of unsuspecting V8s at the strip.


Lastly, I wish I had the stones to build my own camper like you are doing!!

 

[ITTOG]

You are obviously an eco fanboy and nothing I type will change your mind. Although I am not trying to change your mind. Just a few points to make. I should have not used the term garbage, it is obviously a decent motor but severely deficient is fair (for the factory tune) when compared to the ecoboost performance on a cubic inches basis. I know all about full boost launch (two and four wheel drive) and used it in my head to head. Not to mention that is very over rated. Obviously from a dead stop it makes a huge difference but when you are on a street or highway and decide to pass at the last minute the tundra will win every time. While you are waiting for the ecoboost to get wound up the gap may no longer be there. Finally, given I state you are an eco fanboy it is probably fair to say I am a V8 and/or Tundra fanboy.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

You are obviously an eco fanboy and nothing I type will change your mind. Although I am not trying to change your mind. Just a few points to make. I should have not used the term garbage, it is obviously a decent motor but severely deficient is fair (for the factory tune) when compared to the ecoboost performance on a cubic inches basis. I know all about full boost launch (two and four wheel drive) and used it in my head to head. Not to mention that is very over rated. Obviously from a dead stop it makes a huge difference but when you are on a street or highway and decide to pass at the last minute the tundra will win every time. While you are waiting for the ecoboost to get wound up the gap may no longer be there. Finally, given I state you are an eco fanboy it is probably fair to say I am a V8 and/or Tundra fanboy.

Ahhh...now I see. You are using displacement at a metric. If the 3.5 was naturally asperated, displacement would matter. Add 20 pounds of boost and suddenly displacement it just a word in the dictionary...lol. The 3.5 in the Ford GT has 600HP, on pump gas, from the factory. And the Raptor has 450HP and 510 TQ... All from 3.5 little liters...lol.

If you want to smile from ear to ear everytime you drive your truck...get the Highlander/ Macgiver tunes from BCB. I promise you that you will love it...and probably kick yourself for not doing it earlier...haha.

I can see how I come off as an EcoBoost fan boy, but in all honesty I just like HP. For 600.00 you can tune either EcoBoost to be more powerful than a naturally asperated V8 in the other 1/2 ton trucks. I have a tune (a couple actually), catted down pipe, intake, and intercooler. While the mods were not "cheap" they cost far less than getting a comparable increase in HP out of a V8...and they don't wreck my fuel economy unless I get flirty with the happy peddle.

I have a 6.0 block that I'm about to start building so I can drop it in a daddy-daughter project vehicle in a few years... If anything I'm a LS fan boy...haha. ?

 

[ITTOG]

Now that Jnich77 and I have finished our turbo vs V8 banter I would like to repost my last post because there were several questions I hoped people would respond to.



I think I have decided to use ACM for my skin. They have a 3 mm and 6 mm thickness to choose. So which one would be best? The aluminum on the 3 mm ACM is only 0.15 mm thick and on the 6 mm it is 0.20 mm thick. Not a big difference but where I go has a lot of rubbing by tree branches so thinking the extra thickness of the aluminum would be good insurance???? One 4' x 8' sheet of the 3 mm ACM is 23.3 pounds and the 6 mm sheet is 41.6 pounds. So, does the thicker ACM have improved strength properties to justify the extra weight? Apparently no. I just found the spec sheet and both panels have the same impact strength. Interesting? But, I do like the extra thickness. I think it would keep the panel from bowing/flexing so it would look more solid and maybe even stiff enough to cut a window and use the cut out panel with a hinge so it can open to the outside.

One more question. Anyone have an all black camper? How much heat does it attract? I prefer black but am a bit afraid of the heat that it will generate even though 90% of my camping is below freezing. So I thought black sides and white top.

Below are links to examples of the material if you are interested.
https://www.maxmetal.com/6mm.html
https://www.maxmetal.com/3mm-aluminum-composite-panel.html

Not sure if anyone has any experience with ACM but the sign shop I am going to purchase it through suggested I use Lord Adhesives 3024186 Signlok 406, which is an acrylic adhesive, to bond the panels and any flashing I may want to use. Anyone have experience with this adhesive or know of better adhesives to bond aluminum and polyethylene?

 

[ITTOG]

In light of another post talking about how weak bed rails are on a truck I decided to weigh the camper as she sits today. She came in at 266 pounds. I figure I have to add at least another 100 pounds of steel before I begin skinning it. So I will probably need to reinforce my bed rails or distribute some of that weight to the floor of the bed.

Anyone aware of a fastener (bolt/nut) that works with aluminum/steel without creating galvanic corrosion?

 

[ITTOG]

Well, I was hoping to post some pictures with some serious progress because I hadn't been able to do much the previous two weekends. My plan was to get about 10 hours in Saturday and maybe a few on Sunday as well. The morning started out well and I was excited about the progress but a couple hours into it I had to stop. I got careless and suffered an accident. I let the cutoff wheel hit the concrete while at full speed and it kicked back. Stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!! If blood and open wounds are offensive to you or make you sick, then DO NOT scroll down!!

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Well, I was hoping to post some pictures with some serious progress because I hadn't been able to do much the previous two weekends. My plan was to get about 10 hours in Saturday and maybe a few on Sunday as well. The morning started out well and I was excited about the progress but a couple hours into it I had to stop. I got careless and suffered an accident. I let the cutoff wheel hit the concrete while at full speed and it kicked back. Stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!! If blood and open wounds are offensive to you or make you sick, then DO NOT scroll down!!

Dang bud... That's a good one! Hope it heals sooner rather than later!!!

 

[1000arms]

... I got careless and suffered an accident. ... Stupid, stupid, stupid!!!!! ...

I appreciate the honesty, it is a good reminder for each of us to always be aware and take care.

May you heal quickly and completely!

Did you staple it yourself, or is that just what you are going to tell people?

I'm glad you weren't using one of these on your grinder: King Arthur's Tools 14-teeth Lancelot chainsaw cutter

 

[Grassland]

Jesus, hope that heals ASAP.

 

[ITTOG]

Thanks guys for the kind thoughts. I am happy to report I am off of the crutches so it appears to be healing fast. I just need it to seal properly so I can get back to work. I don't want to work on the camper until it has completely closed because I can't risk an infection. So hopefully when I go to the doctor for my followup next week they will say it is closed and the staples can be removed.

I appreciate the honesty, it is a good reminder for each of us to always be aware and take care.

May you heal quickly and completely!

Did you staple it yourself, or is that just what you are going to tell people?

I'm glad you weren't using one of these on your grinder: King Arthur's Tools 14-teeth Lancelot chain saw cutter

So as I think back on this it was several points of failure that caused the accident. Which is the case 99% of the time.
1. Removed the safety guard. A common thing to do but obviously dangerous.
2. I put a 6" cut off wheel on my 4.5" grinder. This causes a lot more centrifugal forces and makes it harder to hold steady.
3. I was sitting on my butt on the floor with my legs out in front of me and what I was cutting between my legs around my knees.
4. No way to contain my work area away from my body.
5. Together we could probably think of many more.

So I had completed my cut where I was and needed to change positions. So I removed the grinder from what I was cutting. When I removed my left hand from the grinder the centrifugal momentum caused the grinder to shift in my other hand and the cut off wheel hit the concrete and kicked into my leg. I got lucky because it could have been so much worse. So please, everyone use this a reminder to be safe when working.

I have never seen one of those tools. That would have been an ugly cut.

 

[1000arms]

Thanks guys for the kind thoughts. I am happy to report I am off of the crutches so it appears to be healing fast. I just need it to seal properly so I can get back to work. I don't want to work on the camper until it has completely closed because I can't risk an infection. So hopefully when I go to the doctor for my followup next week they will say it is closed and the staples can be removed.


So as I think back on this it was several points of failure that caused the accident. Which is the case 99% of the time.
1. Removed the safety guard. A common thing to do but obviously dangerous.
2. I put a 6" cut off wheel on my 4.5" grinder. This causes a lot more centrifugal forces and makes it harder to hold steady.
3. I was sitting on my butt on the floor with my legs out in front of me and what I was cutting between my legs around my knees.
4. No way to contain my work area away from my body.
5. Together we could probably think of many more.

So I had completed my cut where I was and needed to change positions. So I removed the grinder from what I was cutting. When I removed my left hand from the grinder the centrifugal momentum caused the grinder to shift in my other hand and the cut off wheel hit the concrete and kicked into my leg. I got lucky because it could have been so much worse. So please, everyone use this a reminder to be safe when working.

I have never seen one of those tools. That would have been an ugly cut.

I'm glad you are healing!

It appears to me that releasing the paddle-switch on the grinder, and letting it come to a complete stop, before changing positions would help avoid such situations. I like my paddle-switch grinders (I dislike grinders with a thumb-on-and-hold switch), but I have caught myself setting them down, after releasing the paddle-switch, but, before the grinder stopped spinning.

I've thought of picking up one of the King Arthur's Tools 14-teeth Lancelot chainsaw cutter, but, if I ever do, I plan to always use the grinder guard with it, and I plan to simply avoid anything I can't safely do with the guard on it. I think it would be very wise to respect a grinder with a chainsaw blade!

Stay safe! Thanks again for your willingness to exam your situation and remind each of us to be aware and take care.

 

[ITTOG]

Mine is a paddle wheel as well. I had released it but it hadn't slowed down nearly enough before making contact with the concrete. If I kept both hands on the grinder until it stopped, it would not have happened, even with all of my other stupid mistakes. Oh well, just a learning opportunity for me and a reminder for all to keep safety at the forefront.

 

[1000arms]

Mine is a paddle wheel as well. I had released it but it hadn't slowed down nearly enough before making contact with the concrete. If I kept both hands on the grinder until it stopped, it would not have happened, even with all of my other stupid mistakes. Oh well, just a learning opportunity for me and a reminder for all to keep safety at the forefront.

Stay safe!

 

[chet6.7]

Dang,get well soon.