JK/JL Jeep Camper Concept
- Thread starter LostInTheWorld
- Start date
86scotty
Cynic
I just caught up on Dan't latest video. I know this is your rig/thread but I hope you don't mind the conversation continuing here instead of the swamp of Youtube comments.
His thoughts on Gladiator vs. JKU for this conversion are spot on. I have nearly hacked the rear off many an SUV in pursuit of the 'American Maltec' as you are building but have always wondered about frame flex when melding a camper body on to an SUV. I don't feel I have the skills to build a sustainable setup that can handle the flex.
Interesting how you've solved it and sadly you can't really do it with a Gladiator. Mules has done a pretty impressive job but for the whole box as a 2 seater this seems to be the ticket.
Still looking forward to some interior build ideas/plans/pics when you get that far. I'm also curious if you've decided on straight up pop-top vs. wedge?
I've had two wedges, one in a short crew pick up and an Ursa Minor Jeep and decided that I won't have another wedge. Just too cramped. What is the floor to ceiling height right now of the new box without a pop-top?
His thoughts on Gladiator vs. JKU for this conversion are spot on. I have nearly hacked the rear off many an SUV in pursuit of the 'American Maltec' as you are building but have always wondered about frame flex when melding a camper body on to an SUV. I don't feel I have the skills to build a sustainable setup that can handle the flex.
Interesting how you've solved it and sadly you can't really do it with a Gladiator. Mules has done a pretty impressive job but for the whole box as a 2 seater this seems to be the ticket.
Still looking forward to some interior build ideas/plans/pics when you get that far. I'm also curious if you've decided on straight up pop-top vs. wedge?
I've had two wedges, one in a short crew pick up and an Ursa Minor Jeep and decided that I won't have another wedge. Just too cramped. What is the floor to ceiling height right now of the new box without a pop-top?
LostInTheWorld
Builder/Traveler
Thanks! I really like the way these two vehicles are coming together, and I look forward to getting into the interior build phase.
I started design work on this project at the end 2019, and I iterated the configuration for a long time based on what my wife (Yvonne) and I wanted in a new travel vehicle. About a year and a half ago, Dan asked if I would consider simultaneously making a second copy of the camper for him. I thought the collaboration would be a fun addition to the project, and his extensive travel experience has been really helpful in finalizing many practical design details. I built the two identical campers from October-April, and I integrated the first camper onto Yvonne and my 2020 JLU at the end of April. Dan and I are now finishing up integrating the second camper onto his new diesel Rubicon. It’s been fun having Dan here during this phase to work with me in my shop.
I really meant to post more here and on Instagram during the project and show more of the build, but it’s been a busy time, and I haven’t posted nearly as often as I meant to. Now that Dan is here working with me, he is filming a lot of the integration process, and he will be posting more videos about the build and the vehicle(s) in general, so definitely stay tuned to his YouTube channel. I’ll try to post more here as well.
LostInTheWorld
Builder/Traveler
For sure bring up any topics that you like related to my design/build, or topics in Dan’s videos related to this project. I’d be glad to answer any questions. I really haven’t posted as much as I had planned, so it’s nice that Dan is taking the time to make videos explaining more about why/how I did the build and the way the integration process works.
I think the Gladiator vs. JLU topic for vehicles like this will always be debated, but after building two of these campers, I really think a JLU is best for a 2 seat/door configuration and a Gladiator is a good option if a 4 seat/door version is needed. Based on my current experience, for vehicles like this, I think the Gladiator has a lot more structural and usability challenges compared to the JLU. Based on our travel needs/requirements, and after working through all of the structural details over the last few years, I think a JKU/JLU is the best jeep option for a 2 seat/door integrated jeep camper. Everyone has different needs/requirements, though.
I considered many structural and material options for this vehicle, and it took me a few years to really settle on how to integrate the camper structure with the jeep body/frame. In the end, I decided to go with an integrated TIG welded steel “bird cage” space-frame inside the camper with bonded composite panels just like Dave Harriton did on the Outpost II. The frame replaces “most” structural functions of the stock roll bar and it approximates the stiffness of the removed rear body. It’s obviously not a perfect stiffness match to the stock configuration, but it was the best I could do based on the camper geometry and what I know at this time, and other similar vehicles have done well. Side note: the Gladiator is really a different structural situation compared to the JLU.
Projects like this are always a bit of an experiment, so we will all just have to see how these two “prototype” campers structurally perform after some heavy travel use. The Outpost II has been doing great with a similar structure, so hopefully these two vehicles do the same.
Dan and I are both comparing straight up pop-top vs. wedge. Like everything, there are pros and cons to both options. Like you noted, on small vehicles like this, the added volume of the vertical/straight-up would be really valuable.
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LostInTheWorld
Builder/Traveler
Right now, both campers are completely unfinished and empty inside. Dan and I have been talking a lot about system layouts and our desired appliances/features. Yvonne and I have been talking a lot about our habitat internal layout based on where we want to travel, and Dan has some specific requirements and different layout ideas for his, so the two habitats will have different interiors. It will be neat to have the two interior layouts be different and compare the pros and cons once they have both been on the road for a while.
Both campers have white smooth walls and ceilings and continuous flat floors (with temporary carpet). I designed in four large areas where the floor can be cut out to gain access to underfloor volumes, but right now, those access openings have not been cut because we want to finalize our interior layouts before cutting them. There is the option to have underfloor storage over the muffler in the back, but the main underfloor storage is the location of the stock rear passenger footwells in the front of the habitats. The footwell areas will be great for water, batteries, tools, and other heavy items. Both campers will likely have external hatches on the sides to help access those volumes.
You can also see in the photos that there is an exposed wire harness in the habitat right now that runs from the stock jeep rear body harness to the rear lights and backup camera. During the interior built, that harness will be combined with the house wiring harness and incased in a loom.
This is what the first vehicle looks like inside right now:
Both campers have white smooth walls and ceilings and continuous flat floors (with temporary carpet). I designed in four large areas where the floor can be cut out to gain access to underfloor volumes, but right now, those access openings have not been cut because we want to finalize our interior layouts before cutting them. There is the option to have underfloor storage over the muffler in the back, but the main underfloor storage is the location of the stock rear passenger footwells in the front of the habitats. The footwell areas will be great for water, batteries, tools, and other heavy items. Both campers will likely have external hatches on the sides to help access those volumes.
You can also see in the photos that there is an exposed wire harness in the habitat right now that runs from the stock jeep rear body harness to the rear lights and backup camera. During the interior built, that harness will be combined with the house wiring harness and incased in a loom.
This is what the first vehicle looks like inside right now:
Mules
Well-known member
Wedge vs. pop-top is something I still struggle with. It's a complicated decision.
- Wedge is simple to build, works simply and is easy to open/close (with a tailgate to stand on)
- Pop-top gives you a lot of extra head room, but is complicated to open and close (usually opened/closed from inside)
- You have to consider the bed along with the roof. Wedge beds work for both, especially with seating under the low side of the wedge. Horizontal push up beds work well with pop-tops but again get complicated.
Looking at your awesome builds, I was thinking you could use an electric EZ-lift (for truck toppers), to electrically lift your roof, and then have a horizontal pull down bed. Just a thought, have fun.
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mog
Kodiak Buckaroo
Another plus of the JL with an open 'connecting wall' from the cab to cabin vs. if you shorted a Gladiator to a single cab with the Gladiator cab rear you still need to have about 11 inches behind the door seam so the front seats can move back and have at least a slight recline for driving comfort. With the JL you can just use the space in the cabin for this. While 11 inches may not sound like much, that is almost 10% of the JL wheelbase.
SkiWill
Well-known member
I know in Dan's video he said one of his goals was to build something "accessible" because importing a Defender or 70 series Land Cruiser was too exotic and inaccessible for most. So does that mean that these will see some sort of commercial offering of this camper conversion when you guys are done prototyping these two?
While I would absolutely love to see something like this offered commercially in North America for the JL platform, it sure seems to me that importing a Defender and putting an Alu-cab Icarus pop-top conversion on is far more attainable than finding a friend with fantastic engineering and fabrication skills and their own fabrication shop. I know of several importers and several shops within an hour of me that could make the Defender camper a reality for me. I know literally no one any distance that could make this happen. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, engineering, and thought you have all put into this, and I can tell it has been years in the planning and making. Keep up the great work. I'm just hoping that there will be more than two of these things out Lost in the World eventually.
Granted, I know that after years of making it a reality, the priority will be to go out and use it for its intended purpose and have the effort pay off so I don't expect to see anything like this anytime soon. Still, with the response and enthusiasm you are receiving, I'm hoping you're able to capitalize on that like licensing to AEV or something so you can still travel while someone else completes the manufacturing.
While I would absolutely love to see something like this offered commercially in North America for the JL platform, it sure seems to me that importing a Defender and putting an Alu-cab Icarus pop-top conversion on is far more attainable than finding a friend with fantastic engineering and fabrication skills and their own fabrication shop. I know of several importers and several shops within an hour of me that could make the Defender camper a reality for me. I know literally no one any distance that could make this happen. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept, engineering, and thought you have all put into this, and I can tell it has been years in the planning and making. Keep up the great work. I'm just hoping that there will be more than two of these things out Lost in the World eventually.
Granted, I know that after years of making it a reality, the priority will be to go out and use it for its intended purpose and have the effort pay off so I don't expect to see anything like this anytime soon. Still, with the response and enthusiasm you are receiving, I'm hoping you're able to capitalize on that like licensing to AEV or something so you can still travel while someone else completes the manufacturing.
LostInTheWorld
Builder/Traveler
That is a nice setup. I have not seen that truck before. Thanks for the info.
LostInTheWorld
Builder/Traveler
Those are all good points and questions.
I think for how these topics pertains to Dan’s goals/requirements and his use of the camper that he got from me, I don’t want to speak for him, so you might want to chat with him directly about his plan. That being said, I’ll elaborate more on those topics for my overall project here.
When I first started this project, it was just going to be a single vehicle for my wife (Yvonne) and I to travel in (to replace our trusty old Unimog). I’m a vehicle design engineer by trade, so over the years, I tend to just make whatever I want, so I don’t have to compromise on an existing built-out vehicle. So, from the start of this project, Yvonne and I had our own requirements, and I guess I didn’t really consider including a requirement of making these campers easily accessible for other people. I’m not opposed to making more, but it just wasn’t a design requirement at the start. Then about two years into the design (the pandemic stretched the timeline out abnormally), Dan asked if I would consider making a second copy of our camper for him. I thought that making camper #2 for Dan would add a fun dimension to the project, so with two campers in mind, I updated the design a bit to make it easier to fabricate two identical campers at the same time. Doing so actually changed a lot of design details, but the overall layout options didn’t change much as I iterated the final layout.
In several ways, you are right; these two campers aren’t easily obtainable for the average person in North America. And I don’t disagree that, in some ways, a Landy with an Alu-cab pop-top is likely more assessable to the average person.
I have been getting tons of requests from people interested in purchasing these campers if I make more, and many people have been offering deposits. I’m totally open to making more of these, and I have the resources to do so, but I need to think carefully about it for a while. There are a lot of challenging logistic and liability topics to consider prior to making a full-blown company out of this project. I really want to put some hard travel miles on them to make sure the design is solid. Yvonne and I will likely start out with local trips and then extend to Canada and then ship internationally. I look forward to seeing how Dan sets up his interior and where he takes his camper.
We just got back from our first big test trip, and after spending 7 days a week in the shop over the last 10 months setting up the shop and building the two campers, it was really great to be outside and get some fresh air and sunshine. Traveling and getting outside is what this is all about after all, so it was motivating to hit the road for a while.
So, I might make more of these in the future, but if I do, it won’t be for a while. I think they are cool little travel vehicles, and it would be neat to have more of them traveling about the world.
LostInTheWorld
Builder/Traveler
We are back from Overland Expo PNW, and it was a really nice trip. It was great to meet up with several of you, and the event seemed a lot more chill/calmer than the Flagstaff Expo. Yvonne and I put 2,125 miles on our jeep (camper #1) and we caravanned up to the event with Dan (camper #2), so in total, the two campers totaled something like 4,000 miles on the trip without any significant problems. It was a good first big test.
Now that we are back home, it's time to start thinking about laying out the interior of Yvonne and my habit. It should be a fun summer/fall project. It was nice to sleep in the camper all last week with nearly nothing in the habit. It helped us get a feel for the volume and make some decisions about the layout and systems that we want. I think we will try to keep it simple and light weight.
Despite the fact that the camper is a box and not exactly aerodynamic, we were actually fairly pleased with our mileage. We averaged 18.2 mpg over the entire trip and we got more like 20.4 mpg on tanks were we predominantly drove 55 mph. So, the vehicle obviously likes driving slower (no surprise there). Even at +65 mph with a headwind, 18.2 mpg as an average seemed acceptable for a travel vehicle.
Now that we are back home, it's time to start thinking about laying out the interior of Yvonne and my habit. It should be a fun summer/fall project. It was nice to sleep in the camper all last week with nearly nothing in the habit. It helped us get a feel for the volume and make some decisions about the layout and systems that we want. I think we will try to keep it simple and light weight.
Despite the fact that the camper is a box and not exactly aerodynamic, we were actually fairly pleased with our mileage. We averaged 18.2 mpg over the entire trip and we got more like 20.4 mpg on tanks were we predominantly drove 55 mph. So, the vehicle obviously likes driving slower (no surprise there). Even at +65 mph with a headwind, 18.2 mpg as an average seemed acceptable for a travel vehicle.
Dan Grec
Expedition Leader
When I talked about using an "accessible" vehicle, I was referring to the base vehicle. How anyone chooses to outfit a vehicle is up to them, and will depend entirely on their requirements. For example, as soon as it's a family of a few people what I'm doing is useless.
So I've always figured I should show people it's entirely possible to start with a vehicle anyone can just buy off Craigslist (like I did for my expedition Jeeps) and then upfit it for my needs, while talking about the whys and the pros and cons of everything I'm doing so that anyone else can make choices about what they need for what they want to do.
If I start with a base vehicle that is extremely difficult to just buy in base form, people lose interest before we even begin.
If a person wants to do more wheeling then they might go for a bigger lift and 37s (or bigger)
If they want to do weekend trips they might go for a RTT and fridge.
Longer trips like Alaska or Central America they might got for an integrated pop-up like the Ursa Minor I had for Africa
Even longer trips in nasty weather they might go for a live-in camper like the one I have now
All of those are entirely possible on the base vehicle I have chosen, all of those have their pros and cons, and the decision to go with any of them depends entirely on what the person actually needs for themselves, and has nothing to do with me and the choices I've made.
I also enjoy that over the years I've been able to build and experience nearly all of the "options" on my list above, and again show and talk about the pros and cons of each.
In all honesty, I could have just gone with another Jeep with an Ursa Minor... but what would any of us learn from that?
As for importing a Defender or 70 series, that vehicle will have to be 25+ years old so right away it's a totally different equation. It's going to need constant maintenance, it's not nearly as safe and doesn't drive nearly as well. It will also cost a similar amount to the used Jeeps I've bought to do my expeditions, which have only been a few years old.
Personally, after spending a lot of time with 70 series and Defenders in Australia and Africa, there's no way in the world I would pay the kind of money people are asking for a 25 year old one. I'd rather be out on adventures, not wrenching in my driveway and struggling to to buy very expensive parts for a vehicle that doesn't exist locally.
-Dan