JLR Restructuring / Reorg

[mpinco]

Since we are now just a few weeks away from the new CEO and the announcement of significant changes to address the decline of JLR I thought it good to have a thread to discuss the new direction. Near and dear to all of us is powertrain so let's review previous statements and today's new direction:

From Nov 2016:
Hydrogen fuel cells a "complete nonsense" says JLR's technical design chief

And today, Project Zeus:
Jaguar Land Rover Hydrogen SUV project takes aim at 2030 launch

"........The fuel cell vehicle (FCV) effort is called Project Zeus. If the company hits its project targets, the first hydrogen SUV will likely be ready for production as the next generation of the automaker’s larger models are ready........."

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Well if you read the first article, it just says the process of manufacturing it is extremely inefficient, not that the technology doesn’t work. The same is true for ethanol, in addition to having zero redeeming qualities, but that doesn’t stop them from cramming it down everyone’s throats.

For alternative technology, my preference would be keeping standard gasoline engines, supplementing them with solar hybrid electric motors that it can run off of in the city or when cruising on the highway. It will be interesting to see how the P400 Defender setup does.

I think one of JLR’s problems, besides their reputation for poor reliability (which largely stems from constantly pushing new tech), is having far too many models, and straying further and further from their roots. A lot of people never use them off road, but they like the idea of the capability.

I’m concerned with the new Defender as their “flagship off roader”, we will see more of their new models abandoning low range, center diff locks, and possibly even the off road suspension designs, or AWD completely on some of the smaller, cheaper models.

I also can’t understand why they don’t take better advantage of the “trickle down technology” they develop. They do continue to use it, but they change enough things that it costs them $ and causes problems. Look at LR3, it was a largely proven and reliable platform. They updated it to make the LR4, but used the new Ford engine which had significant timing chain issues, rather than just the Supercharged Jag 4.2L if they wanted more power. Then they bring out the hideous egg-shaped Discovery 5 that nobody likes.

 

[DieselRanger]

I’m concerned with the new Defender as their “flagship off roader”, we will see more of their new models abandoning low range, center diff locks, and possibly even the off road suspension designs,

I don't understand that statement...the Defender has all of those things, as do the Discovery, RRS, and Range Rover. A few minutes on their respective configurators proves it.

This thread is obviously just another attempt at reviving the Rage and Hate Thread and is non-sequitur to overlanding.

 

[mpinco]

This thread is not another rage/hate fest. It's the realities JLR is facing. Either they address them or become a much smaller entity.

The issue for JLR and all manufacturers is the UK's move to ban ICE and hybrids by 2032, hence the new push for FCEV's. BEV's simply can't serve the larger platforms like the Disco or Range Rover with any reasonable operational range and refuel time. Going significantly smaller and lighter is not an option.

 

[Blaise]

This thread is obviously just another attempt at reviving the Rage and Hate Thread and is non-sequitur to overlanding.

Yep. I knew that the moment I saw who started it.

 

[mpinco]

Blackberry based Pivi Pro migrating across the entire product line, enabling cloud service model.

Range Rover Evoque Gets Mild-Hybrid Diesels, New Infotainment and Steering Wheel

 

[mpinco]

Chief executive Thierry Bolloré beginning the journey to financial stability

Six models on the potential chopping block ........

Jaguar Land Rover's new chief plans deep cuts to product line-up
Six current and planned models face the axe, including electric XJ saloon

Article list the following on the short list to axe:

Jaguar Electric XJ
Jaguar XE salon
Jaguar XF salon
Jaguar SUV ?
Land Rover Discovery Sport
Range Rover but specific model not noted. Velar?

Jaguar moves upscale?

 

[TOUGE]

Land Rover Discovery Sport

I'm surprised about that one being cut. I see more Disco Sports around than most LR models these days. It's probably cutting into the more expensive Evoke sales though.

 

[mpinco]

Discovery Sport on the axe list is surprising but there is a lot of competition in that model. That said I see more Disco Sports than other models. Cancelling the Sport puts the entire 3 tier Land Rover strategy back on the table or cancelled.

 

[Carson G]

Discovery Sport on the axe list is surprising but there is a lot of competition in that model. That said I see more Disco Sports than other models. Cancelling the Sport puts the entire 3 tier Land Rover strategy back on the table or cancelled.

Frankly I think they should just have FFRR, RRS, D5, Defender. Then Jag should just have the Ftype and maybe a sedan. As well as not worrying so much about quantity and worry more about quality.

 

[Worms]

Frankly I think they should just have FFRR, RRS, D5, Defender. Then Jag should just have the Ftype and maybe a sedan. As well as not worrying so much about quantity and worry more about quality.

Not a lot wrong with that list (although I'm not sure about keeping both FFRR and RRS), but I think there is a gap in their line-up for a slightly smaller SUV that is still family and off-tarmac capable. Of course, as a FL2/LR2 owner I have a certain bias here, but the Disco Sport was never quite right for this gap and I don't think the new 90 Defender will meet it either.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

Using the “Range Rover” name for 5 models has cheapened it. IMO, it’s a Range Rover or it isn’t, there should only be one. Call the Sport something else, they do sell a lot so I’d keep it around.

The D5 has been hideous since day 1, and hasn’t grown on me a bit. As has been said in other threads, the new Defender is the actual continuation of the Discovery lineage, so I’m not sure where it leaves that.

I’m not sure how many “non-LR” people will end up buying a Defender as more basic models become available. I’ve been surprised by the number of people that have ordered a Bronco, sight unseen. With how many $50k + JK/JL’s are running around you’d think there would be some cross over, but maybe Jeep people all just want to match.

The mini SUV’s have never seemed to do that well for Land Rover, but they may have to keep one around for EPA fuel economy purposed. Just re-badge the Jag one if they keep it around and move on.

I still think they are missing the boat by not offering a pickup and a Suburban sized SUV. The vast majority of upper middle class households here own those two vehicles, and are paying $55-$80k each for them. With the new chassis they have developed it shouldn’t be a huge deal to change the body and interior, the pickup doesn’t even need to have a cab/bed gap. Over 90% of the new F-150’s sold don’t do any actual work.

So my vote for the compete line would be Range Rover, some sort of Sport, D90/D110/D130 pickup, and then two new D6 models, one the current size, one XL version, both that don’t look like a damn egg.

 

[catmann]

I agree with much of this. The FFRR and Sport need to stay - they are staples. The Evoque needs to stay as that is a staple now. Since the Evoque is now larger and has taken on Velar queues, I see no need for the Velar. Defender 90, 110and 130 all makes sense for the US, but the 130 may or may not have global demand. The Discovery and Sport can be merged and re-tooled into one midsize family SUV that is more road biased. I love Jaguar, but I am not sure I can make a case for it's existence since cars are giving way to SUV's. They would need to have a high end Jag saloon and sporty connvertible, then I guess the F-Pace, but then what?

 

[Carson G]

I agree with much of this. The FFRR and Sport need to stay - they are staples. The Evoque needs to stay as that is a staple now. Since the Evoque is not larger and has taken on Velar queues, I see no need for the Velar. Defender 90, 110and 130 all makes sense for the US, but the 130 may or may not have global demand. The Discovery and Sport can be merged and re-tooled into one midsize family SUV that is more road biased. I love Jaguar, but I am not sure I can make a case for it's existence since cars are giving way to SUV's. They would need to have a high end Jag saloon and sporty connvertible, then I guess the F-Pace, but then what?

Honestly I’d love to see Land Rover be JLR’s only SUV/truck manufacturer and then have Jag do nothing but sports cars and maybe a ultra high end saloon car. I’d be pretty awesome if Jag did a mid engine supercar.

 

[Worms]

The mini SUV’s have never seemed to do that well for Land Rover, but they may have to keep one around for EPA fuel economy purposed. Just re-badge the Jag one if they keep it around and move on.

That comment made me wonder about LR production/sales figures and surprisingly I see (from statista.com ) that the FL2/LR2/DS and the Evoque have consistently been LR's top performers with the RRS close behind. I guess perspective depends on where you are but the LR2/FL2 was a very successful model around here and Evoque/DS are ten-a-penny. I can't see LR wanting to desert that niche entirely, although I fear that future models will be at the Evoque end rather than the more utilitarian FL2 end of the market.