Lack of 70 series Land Cruisers.

[Douglas S.]

I don't recall that we were comparing Land Rover suspension to that of Jeeps or 80's per se. I thought this was a thread about the 70 series.

Exactly, last I checked they weren't made by Land Rover. If you are going to get all riled up because someone made a negative comment about Land Rovers, you may want to consider staying out of the Land Cruiser section of the site.

 

[David Harris]

Exactly, last I checked they weren't made by Land Rover. If you are going to get all riled up because someone made a negative comment about Land Rovers, you may want to consider staying out of the Land Cruiser section of the site.

I'm not upset about that. I admit that Land Rovers break down. Can Toyota owners do the same about their vehicles?

 

[czenkov]

All I can say is that the real truth on both Toyota and Land Rover lies somewhere in the middle of the myths on both sides.

At risk of siding with neither side… I am not a troll, I currently own both marque's. And frequent both areas to learn more about these fine trucks. Although I admit I don't post much as evidenced by my count.

I currently own as a daily a 1999 LC. Purchased about 8 weeks ago w/96k one owner miles. I love it, although mpg is not great, it is comfortable and I will, without fear, drive it to Baja and back in December. In fact I bought it in Steamboat Springs and drove it from there to SLC. Oh, and we drove out in my buddies Disco, which performed flawlessly. My research showed that I needed to buy a LC with records to ensure reliability and no major repairs needed - I did not do this. Seems that is what is required in LR's as well. I have also owned a 1997 LC that I had to replace the transmission at 111K due to what I think was "drive it like you stole it behavior". Perhaps it had been stolen? I have also owned a high mileage FJ62 that in the end I sold on because, well, I could not deal with its propensity for rusting. All three have their "achilles heel".

I have owned a 1997 D90(sold that 6 weeks ago), 2x 1995 RRc's, and I still have a 1960 SII, and a 1986 110. I love LR's. The 90 required much work to get it up to date due to it being owned by a small business guy that was impacted negatively by the downturn , so delayed maintenance, and it had its fair share of corrosion. The two RRC's? One I sold on because it was too nice and I was afraid it would break at any moment. The other I sold to a friend, and it was a low mileage 2 owner - with salvage title - still going strong. There is a thread on a forum about this one - I will not elaborate here. It is a good truck, "Lindo". They require maintenance just like anything else. I do my own work on the Series and the 110.

I farm out the LC work. I appreciate them all for their own reasons. I would love to own a 45, a 70 series, a Patrol, a G-Wagen, a Pinz, a 'Mog, a 105, a 130, and a CJ8 to name a few. All have their strengths and weaknesses.

No I don't think "trolling" is acceptable. I think Oryx is trying to take the middle road. Flame away boys - why can't we all just get along.


Here we are above 9k feet. Cold, but great night outside of Yampa on our way to my buddy John's place in Carbondale.

 

[plainjaneFJC]

If that the case and rovers are twice as reliable as we hear, and cruisers are half as reliable than we are lead to believe, then that means the Toyota is light years better than a rover? I jokingly say that as I want to love the 110 so bad, but don't need a extra job fixing oil leaks.

All I can say is that the real truth on both Toyota and Land Rover lies somewhere in the middle of the myths on both sides.

 

[czenkov]

If that the case and rovers are twice as reliable as we hear, and cruisers are half as reliable than we are lead to believe, then that means the Toyota is light years better than a rover? I jokingly say that as I want to love the 110 so bad, but don't need a extra job fixing oil leaks.

The secret is add oil, don't try to fix leaks as it is impossible. LOL!

 

[David Harris]

The secret is add oil, don't try to fix leaks as it is impossible. LOL!

 

[Charo]

I do always get a chuckle when 70 series owners tout the model's off-road capability. Reliable - yes. Capable - no.

If you want a capable Land Cruiser, buy an 80 series.

This is an interesting perspective. After driving off-road daily for 5 years in East Africa, my BJ-73 was only stuck twice. One of those trips was with 15 other vehicles up Mt. Kenya - an assortment of LC 60's, 80's, 75's, Pajeros, Suzuki and a Hilux. The only vehicles that didn't get stuck were my 73, the Hilux and one of the 60's. I guess my type of driving wasn't severe off-road exploring, but normal expedition type travel on dirt/mud roads. Seemed to do me just fine and often rescued vehicles much bigger. Can't speak to the 80 - didn't have one. A friend did and it was much more comfortable than mine for sure. Seemed to do fine in the same conditions. Fun conversation!

 

[David Harris]

Oryx, I'd love to have you explain to me why you think Land Rover suspension is better than the suspension in a Jeep or an 80-series, because it isn't. There's nothing special about radius arms.

My personal opinion of Land Rover has been soured by my dad's, which ate three of it's pistons with 130k km's on the odometer. And yes, it was a catastrophic failure with no warning given.

Your whole argument seems to be that Land Cruisers are more reliable in harsh environments than Land Rovers, but Land Rovers aren't as bad as people say they are...which somehow makes the Land Rover better. Seems strange, but these threads never really go anywhere and it's not like anyone's opinion will be swayed. Isn't it you who is always pointing out that Toyota people in the Land Rover forums must just be jealous?

No it's not. An fj80 scored 593 on the rti and a disco scored 588.

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/rti.htm

Just because vehicles share radius arm design does not make them equal in performance. Length of arms, geometry, flexibility of the joints, front/rear suspension balance, etc. all come together.

Four Wheeler tested the vehicles with the sway bars connected. Without them, Land Rovers score in the 700's completely stock. http://www.okoffroad.com/okrovers/events-rti-02.htm Icon tested an FJ80 on stock springs with the Icon piggyback shocks and it scored 691 with sway bars disconnected. http://www.expeditionportal.com/for...iggy-Back-Prototype-Shocks-for-the-80-Series? So without the Icon shocks I would expect the completely stock FJ80 to score under 690 on RTI.

Comparing Jeeps, a stock JK scores about the same as a coiler Land Rover, around 730. http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-news/project-jk-off-road-evolution-jk-ramp-day-meet-n-greet-rti-scores However, going backward to the TJ, YJ, etc. it's all downhill. A stock TJ Rubicon is in the mid 500's and the YJ/CJ are of course worse still with the leaf springs. Personally, while the LC/Defender comparison is fair, the Jeep/Defender one is less so, just because the Defender, especially 110/130 is built a lot heavier to carry greater loads on a day to day purpose for commercial use. Just compare the chassis of a Jeep to that of a Land Rover to see the difference. Land Cruiser 60/70/80 etc. is built for heavy commercial use but stats show that the off road specs and performance of the Defender is better in stock form, when you look at things like approach, break over, departure, and even available payload, because the Cruiser is itself heavier which lessens the amount it can carry up to GVWR. I just think it is an interesting debate and I don't mean to step on anyone's toes personally. They are all great and well perform the tasks for which they are intended.

David

2012 Land Rover Defender 110 Hard Top 2.2L Turbo Diesel

Minimum Ground Clearance 9.8 inches
Approach Angle 49 degrees
Departure Angle 35 degrees
Ramp Break 150 degrees
Gross Vehicle Weight 7716 lbs. (3500 kg.)
Curb Weight 4435 lbs. (2013 kg.)
Payload 3278 lbs. (1487 kg.)
Average Fuel Consumption 22 mpg
Range 429 miles (690 km.)

 

[RMP&O]

This thread has gone pretty far off course.....

I say again, import more! 1989 70-series can be imported very soon. It is not hard to import, it just costs some cash. Most people go for Australia to import but it is not a big deal to import from a LHD country such as any in Central America. And very possible much cheaper.

Soon HJ80s can be imported, just a few more years.

You don't want to know what I think of Rovers....


Cheers

 

[David Harris]

This thread has gone pretty far off course.....

I say again, import more! 1989 70-series can be imported very soon. It is not hard to import, it just costs some cash. Most people go for Australia to import but it is not a big deal to import from a LHD country such as any in Central America. And very possible much cheaper.

Soon HJ80s can be imported, just a few more years.

You don't want to know what I think of Rovers....


Cheers

Yeah. I don't understand why people want to spend more to import from RHD countries, when they want to drive in a LHD country and most of the world is LHD? This goes for Toyotas, Rovers, whatever. I would look at the Middle East where there are tons of rust-free specimens just waiting.

 

[RMP&O]

Problem with the Middle East is it is very hard to export trucks from those countries. At least that is what I was led to believe by a guy doing it.

Latin America is close by, most people shy away due to thinking the trucks are to beat down. And a lot of them are, but not all.

Cheers

 

[David Harris]

Problem with the Middle East is it is very hard to export trucks from those countries. At least that is what I was led to believe by a guy doing it.

Mmmm. I'd like to hear more about that.

 

[czenkov]

Europe

Europe…not common there but you can find them and LHD.

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Why RHD? JDM & Australia are a huge reason, hundreds of thousands of used vehicles to choose from and in the case of JDM models... often they are very clean, little or no off-road use and well maintained. Australia is hit/miss much like Cen/So America, some good import options but some hammered re-paints as well. There are some LHD Cruiser options in Europe but they are in far fewer numbers than those in larger markets thus setting up an import pipeline is more difficult. As noted the middle east is tougher, particularly compared to Japan, Aus, etc. There are importers working on that angle including some of the partner importers I work with for LC's.

 

[Elbee]

The Middle East has a lot of clean examples. It seems that most of them are brought over to Afghanistan as rentals for all the NATO/ISAF personnel to use on base here. The UAE is where most of the cars come from and can be bought pretty cheap, but the kicker is that they are usually between 3 to 6 years old with a few being around late 90s. So this doesn't really help people that are importing because I don't think many cars are being held on long enough before being sold to the dusty corners and various gray markets of the world.

On an interesting side note. I did see a USA spec 4runner being used over here. I took a closer look and noticed the Vin number was scratched off and there was a faded ny state sticker on the back. I guess it got stolen and shipped over seas at some point and now US troops are using it as a rental years later!

Also in reference to the South American land cruisers.
There are some beautifully kept 80s and 70s hilux pickups in Peru and there are some decent examples of land cruiser, but then there are some that are haggard work trucks. Just look at the attached picture of a 70 series troopie that I rode in Bolivia.