Land Rover Discovery 1 or 2, or Range Rover Classic 1 or 2

[dcwhybrew]

The "reality of life" as i would call your sentence about the 2 kids, dogs and mortgage is something very much in consideration for me. I do not want to spend all my time fixing it and not have a vehicle that will serve its basic purpose of transportation.

I have been reading another thread "a question for LR owners" where people talk about their passion for their Landies without regard wether they might have issues with them. I guess i do not have that passion going in since i never owned one. Hence my questions to those who do/have. With the forgiveness of all the people that "are in love" with their LRs or "feel a passion" for them, it is not meant to insult and I cannot understand till I own one. I guess it's like getting into a relationship with a hot woman: you want to weight in before wether she will be too high maintenance besides being hot and that weight will tip the scale in their favor or against.

LOL...my passion for LRs (and I suspect many will follow this same pattern) didn't start until after I bought my first one. I got my first LR (96 D1) by "accident." Yes, I knowingly paid for the car and took her home...what I mean is, I was living in the desert southwest and wanted to go hiking to see some of the land features around where I lived. Anyway, I didnt have a 4wd at the time so I began looking for a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Well those damn things were over priced in my opinion and I happened to find a LR Discovery, at the LR Las Vegas dealership, in my price range. So I bought it instead. That led me to joining a LR club, discovering off roading/overlanding (not mudding or rock crawling), fixing it (tinkering really) myself and subsequently 6 more rovers.

So, to make a long story short, the passion came after the purchase.

 

[Snagger]

You can't love what you don't know - dcw's story is not unusual, and though I liked LRs before I had my first, they weren't a part of my life. Now they are, just in the same way as kids aren't a part of most peoples' lives until they have them...

 

[dcwhybrew]

You can't love what you don't know - dcw's story is not unusual, and though I liked LRs before I had my first, they weren't a part of my life. Now they are, just in the same way as kids aren't a part of most peoples' lives until they have them...

hmmmmm....which is more expensive, Rover ownership or kids? LOL

 

[Snagger]

hmmmmm....which is more expensive, Rover ownership or kids? LOL

Kids, definitely. Which is more frustrating is a trickier question...

 

[pixelcodex]

For the price of having, raising and educating kids we could have and enjoy many LRs for many years. And the little buggers have almost no resale value and you definitely cannot trade them in ... LOL

 

[Snagger]

I just hope they remember and appreciate it when I'm an old pensioner!

 

[majornerd]

Also the parts guys like john gadd, will tillery, paul grant, pt schram, etc.

I bought mine from a well known member of this forum and others that deals solely in LR modifications.

-Sam

I have dealt with John Gadd (roverdude) for a while now and would highly recommend him as both an honest seller and mechanic and overall great guy. Really knowledgeable with the RRC and D1 he can get/build your ideal rover or rover for your budget (not always the same thing).

 

[Viggen]

How I wish LR could combine the looks of a D1 or D2 with the reliability and performance of a LR3.

I dont think that one can compare the "reliability and performance" of a car 5 or so years old with one that (if its a D1) is going on 16 years old. $5k in maintenance might be on the high side but remember you are buying an old vehicle, not an Audi A3. Its old, probably been neglected and youd be a fool to think to not expect some possibly heavy up front costs. I loved my D1 and miss it at times. I do love my old Cruiser because it works (and the running gear makes Rover stuff look like toy equipment) but I do find myself noticing a lot of Rovers. Saw a 95 D1 SD with cloth seats, no sunroofs, auto and no rust (yes, I poked around) in the parking lot of Costco yesterday and thought that that would make a great rig.

 

[pixelcodex]

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in…

Well, I finally sold my A3. I had heard/taken all advice given here and even (gasp) started looking into other vehicles like a 4Runner or even a Tacoma double cab. Though I knew I was not getting into a Rover, I knew at least I would get into a reliable vehicle that might "keep me safe" from the high maintenance some of you talked about. All of this without even having sat on or driven one.

Well, call me a snob or I have been spoiled by the A3. I sat on the Tacoma for 1 minute and I wanted out, and I test drove a used 4Runner and did not like it at all. Not having owned one but driven in a Rover, I thought it my choice was made once more for a good compromise between comfort and ride/handling.

I thought back of the advice of some of you of looking at an LR3, specially looking back at this from one poster

How I wish LR could combine the looks of a D1 or D2 with the reliability and performance of a LR3

I went an test drove one at a local dealer and — even though it was a 2007 — I thought I could get an 05-06 and finance just a negligible amount after using the money from the A3 i just sold, not leaving any extra money for anything or maintenance. Though hopefully since I would buy it from a local dealer, it would not require a lot to be up to shape.

As I mentioned before I had been talking to a local Rover mechanic (not dealership) who I was thinking of using for the "bigger" stuff as it may come. I called him to tell him about what I was considering and he told me "the LR3 was the worse Rover after the Freelander" and that "it was plagued with electronic issues with its suspension." This left me a bit confused and I went back home to google LR3 issues and it even autofilled as I typed LR3: "LR3 suspension problems." I read a bit about those various faults, airbag issues, etc being fixed under warranty but it left me "wondering" who would pay for issues if/when they break again now that warranty would be out: me. I also read about how it "eats up tires" and you have to change them every 15k. I do not want to get into another situation like the A3, which even though it had low miles (<39k) was on its third set of tires.

Now, the mechanic's opinion may be influenced by the fact he has an 03 DII that he bought with a blown motor, and will be selling with a rebuilt motor, obviously for a lot less than the LR3. I have not seen that one yet, so I am not sure of what shape it is in. If I were to go that route, I would buy it cash and have some money left over to do some upkeep or add farkles. He also has an 02 Range Rover that he is getting a used the motor on but I never considered the RR before. I will probably go talk to him in person tomorrow, but wanted to hear the general consensus.

Now I ask once again of those that chimed in about the LR3 and DII: Some had listed zero issues, while others 5k a year repairs, are the reliability issues really there or some bad luck? My first instinct is to listen to the guy who will likely be the mechanic I will take the car to because he has nothing to gain warning me about the LR3, on the contrary could really benefit from the situation if in fact the car does break down a lot.

Thanks.

 

[dcwhybrew]

Well, I finally sold my A3. I had heard/taken all advice given here and even (gasp) started looking into other vehicles like a 4Runner or even a Tacoma double cab. Though I knew I was not getting into a Rover, I knew at least I would get into a reliable vehicle that might "keep me safe" from the high maintenance some of you talked about. All of this without even having sat on or driven one.

Well, call me a snob or I have been spoiled by the A3. I sat on the Tacoma for 1 minute and I wanted out, and I test drove a used 4Runner and did not like it at all. Not having owned one but driven in a Rover, I thought it my choice was made once more for a good compromise between comfort and ride/handling.

I thought back of the advice of some of you of looking at an LR3, specially looking back at this from one poster I went an test drove one at a local dealer and — even though it was a 2007 — I thought I could get an 05-06 and finance just a negligible amount after using the money from the A3 i just sold, not leaving any extra money for anything or maintenance. Though hopefully since I would buy it from a local dealer, it would not require a lot to be up to shape.

As I mentioned before I had been talking to a local Rover mechanic (not dealership) who I was thinking of using for the "bigger" stuff as it may come. I called him to tell him about what I was considering and he told me "the LR3 was the worse Rover after the Freelander" and that "it was plagued with electronic issues with its suspension." This left me a bit confused and I went back home to google LR3 issues and it even autofilled as I typed LR3: "LR3 suspension problems." I read a bit about those various faults, airbag issues, etc being fixed under warranty but it left me "wondering" who would pay for issues if/when they break again now that warranty would be out: me. I also read about how it "eats up tires" and you have to change them every 15k. I do not want to get into another situation like the A3, which even though it had low miles (<39k) was on its third set of tires.

Now, the mechanic's opinion may be influenced by the fact he has an 03 DII that he bought with a blown motor, and will be selling with a rebuilt motor, obviously for a lot less than the LR3. I have not seen that one yet, so I am not sure of what shape it is in. If I were to go that route, I would buy it cash and have some money left over to do some upkeep or add farkles. He also has an 02 Range Rover that he is getting a used the motor on but I never considered the RR before. I will probably go talk to him in person tomorrow, but wanted to hear the general consensus.

Now I ask once again of those that chimed in about the LR3 and DII: Some had listed zero issues, while others 5k a year repairs, are the reliability issues really there or some bad luck? My first instinct is to listen to the guy who will likely be the mechanic I will take the car to because he has nothing to gain warning me about the LR3, on the contrary could really benefit from the situation if in fact the car does break down a lot.

Thanks.

Well, you have the Rover bug...that is great! I'm being sincere. You wont regret (notice I didnt say you wont get mad) owning one! However, regarding your mechanics opinion of the LR3; personally I think he's an idiot. He doesnt know what he is talking about. He mentioned a tire alignment issue and one suspension issue. The tire alignment issue have been addressed and fixed. Frankly I have owned an 05 and an 06 and have never experienced the tire wear issues that have been alleged. I have almost 20k miles on a set of General Grabber AT2s on my 06 and my ex wife has probably 30-35k miles on her General Grabber AT2s. They wear great, and we havent had any abnormal wear problems, or alignment problems. Period!

If you can afford it, I'd by the LR3 over the DII hands down any day of the week, without thinking twice! Serously. I have owned the P38 Range Rover (albiet a 97 GEMS model), but still wouldnt purchase another one. I think it is incredulous that he would advocate that you buy the 02 RR over the LR3. The P38s have terrible air suspension problems, which are less expensive to fix thanks to Arnott making 3rd party products that are better quality than OEM (my opinion). So in short, after putting about 65k miles on my ex-wife's 05 LR3 SE (115k miles on it) and 20k on my 06 LR3 (now with 80k miles), NEITHER have had ANY air suspension issues (knock on wood).

I think your mechanics opinion may be influenced more by what he has to sell. Like I have said before, I have owned 7 Rovers (1 D1, 2 D2s, 1 P38 RR, 1 RRC, and 2 LR3s). The LR3s are the best quality LR product of all those I have listed. He's on idiot, based on the information you've shared.

 

[Some Dude]

Sounds like he could also really benefit if he convinces you that "those LR3s are pieces of crap" and you buy one of the Rovers he has for sale.

I have an 03 D2 that I've now had for 27k miles. It has cost me a TON of money, but not because it's unreliable. I've had it on H/Ts, A/Ts, and now M/Ts. Upgraded suspension. Second set of wheels. Blah, blah, etc. The upgrade bug is far more expensive than the maintenance bug.

 

[Series1Rangie]

Pixel,

The best thing you could do for yourself is buy the extended warranty. I wouldn't own one of the newer models w/o it, and I do 90% of my own work. (I came from the series side of Rovers so my expectations on creature comforts aren't that high. ) I am not a new car owner by nature, but if the right LR3 came up I would buy it over a D1 or D2 any day of the week (WITH THE EXTENDED WARRANTY) The cost of the warranty will pay for itself over your ownership. If you need anymore convincing, then go sit in a D1 or D2, you will be surprised at how short the windscreen is compared to how high the roof line is. Really at 6'3" I think your neck would hate you pretty quickly. (I am 6'3" mostly torso, and don't fit in Classics post 86 or any of the Discos until the D3/LR3)

Good Luck with your decision.


Cheers

Mike and Myles.

OTOH
what about a 3 year old Forester? I know you looked at tacomas and 4runners, but the Forester has great ground clearance stock (= to an exploder) gets better gas mileage than everything else we are talking about, and would pull a small trailer with your bikes on it. just a random thought as I was typing this.

I also found recently that if you take the head rests off the seats and fold the back down and the front back, it all fits together and you can sleep inside. just put your bags on your seats and your head at the back. (at least in my 99)

 

[Rocket Ship]

Well, call me a snob or I have been spoiled by the A3. I sat on the Tacoma for 1 minute and I wanted out, and I test drove a used 4Runner and did not like it at all.

That's EXACTLY why I got into Rovers. I've seen plenty of high milage Toyotas that are incredibly reliable, but you couldn't GIVE me one.

I would like to have their number handy for when I need a tow, however. :victory:

 

[Snagger]

My opinion clashes with the American D3 owners on here, but living in the UK, seeing so many LR vehicles around, and having several LR mechanic friends, I have a pretty good and objective view on LR reliability. Not being a D3 owner, I am unbiased, do not have rose tinted specs and don't have to hide any mistake.

DO NOT get a LR3 - the mechanic is completely right -the early ones were full of problems with their 27 (for the basic models) ECUs, all of which are cross connected so that one failure causes a cascade of problems and a stranded vehicle. They also have weak suspension wishbones, wear our suspension bushes (needing full assembly replacement as the bushes need a ridiculously large press that most garages don't have), they do go through tyres ridiculously fast, suffer EGR clogging, HEVAC servo motor failure (dash strip down) and turbo problems. The clutch on manual models will be a nightmare - the entire body shell has to be separated and lifted away from the chassis to do it, costing about £1500 in the UK and probably a lot more in the US where parts will be dearer. They also have a daft electronic parking brake that seizes up and costs a lot to put right. Basic models have coil sprung suspension, which removes one area of concern, but at least the EAS system seems to be relatively reliable compared to the RRC and P38 - it's just the airbags that perish or puncture, but the rest seems OK.

They are great vehicles when relatively new (after all the glitches have been sorted out), but will be a financial nightmare outside of the warranty period. Unless you have very deep pockets, heed the mechanic's advice.

A late P38 might be alright (the early ones were full of electronics problems), but be wary of porous engine blocks and EAS faults. At least you can retro fit a coil suspension kit if needed. They are a great vehicle when all is running right and should be cheaper than a late D3 too.

 

[pixelcodex]

Like they say, be careful what you wish for, in this case varied opinions. I went to sleep last night after having read dcwhybrew's post on my phone, thinking of my mechanic and Series1Rangies's post about extended warranties.

Having the opinion of somebody who has owned a couple brings a lot of first hand experience to the table as opposed to "I read they have issues." However, the need for extended warranty had me thinking a bit. I do not buy cars with the plan of selling in a couple of years, otherwise I would lease. As far as the LR salesman told me I can get another year of warranty but I am not sure if any is available after that. Well, what then? I can understand having piece of mind that the warranty will cover a lot of repairs, but if the same things keep breaking then I will after. Are there other third party companies people in this forum have used in the US?

Then there is Snagger's opinion who comes from a place where LRs are more common than here — his friend saw a lot more at the shop — and shares my concern about warranty. Some of the issues will not apply as there are no TD engines or manual transmissions offered for the LR3 in the US, but I believe they did not come with the basic suspension in the US. Like I said before, I am looking into both an 05 and 06, though I tested an 07. The salesman stated as we sat on it something along the lines of "this one is a later model when a lot of issues/kinks have been ironed out." Were there improvements from 05 to 06? The 05 I saw has ~56k on the clock, while the 06 has 66K (price is 1.5k less for the 05).

Today I will go talk to the mechanic in person and hear him out in detail... Decisions, decisions, decisions...