Here is some additional information that I have referenced over the years. This is good stuff.
http://www.robisonservice.com/servicedep/rover_advice1.asp
http://www.robisonservice.com/servicedep/rover_advice1.asp
Land Rover Discovery 1 or 2, or Range Rover Classic 1 or 2
- Thread starter pixelcodex
- Start date
pixelcodex
Observer
4-5k in maintenance annually!!! Please tell me that is an exaggeration. That would make it the cost of the car every year. Do I need to replace the whole thing every year!!??? Again, I am not thinking of buying anything new, so any newer ones or LR3s are way out of the question
Scott Brady
Founder
I have had total repairs on my 1995 DI at about $700. That is in nearly five years!
Fuel pump
Water pump
Thats it.
Fuel pump
Water pump
Thats it.
Wander
Expedition Leader
4-5K is a high estimate but not unheard of. It all depends on how the vehicle has been cared for until you get it. With the age of DI's that can be several prior owners and no real way to know how they cared for it. I understand you want something very capable for very little $$ but that can be hard to find. Reading your comments, wishes and ideas of work involved I have to be honest my first idea was a Land Cruiser 100 series. They tend to run a little more up front but the overall cost will likely be much less. I love my DI 5 speed but it's also not my only vehicle and it took me some luck to be able to get it, the 94 DI I had before it was another animal entirely. The 94 was cheap to buy and the 97 not so much but I know I could not have built the 94 to the level of my 97 for the difference in cost so I came out way ahead.
Yes, I still have all of my repair invoices too. Like I said, I was very particular about how the car was maintained.
I wish I had that luck.
Snagger
Explorer
Well, dcwhybrew, I think you have been very unlucky in how unreliable your vehicle has been, or you have been extremely demanding of perfection.
My RRC has cost me about £400-500 in maintenance each year. I have had to replace the steering box, head gasket (did that myself), water pump and rad (did the timing belt at the same time), suspension bushes, CV joints, a swivel; housing, the brake discs and pads, rebuild the callipers with stainless pistons, have some welding done on the foot wells and sill body mounts, new rear wheel arches (the sections that are visible when the rear doors are opened), an new upper tailgate, a little painting and a new clutch and a new fuel injection system... The swivel, welding and clutch were done professionally, while I did the rest at home to save on labour costs. The vehicle is not perfect, but it's reliable and still presentable with its original panels and almost all original paint. Allow for exchange rates and higher costs of parts across the pond and I suspect you're looking at a typical bill of $1,000 per annum, if you do the lesser jobs yourself.
The thing is that these cars are old - mine is one of the last Classics, from 1995, but that makes it 16 years old with 180,000 miles on British roads; potholes and winter salt included. Any vehicle of that mileage and age is going to require more maintenance than a new vehicle, especially a Japanese one, but you have to remember that such an old vehicle is bought cheaply. You also have to remember that with a new vehicle, what you save on maintenance, you spend on taxes and depreciation (and more).
I don't know if your budget would stretch to a D3 (LR3). They're capacious vehicle and extremely comfortable and capable. Just be warned that repairs on these are time consuming and very expensive, and (in Europe, at least) they have an awful reputation for reliability and robustness (particularly the suspension).
I'd go for as new a DII as possible...
My RRC has cost me about £400-500 in maintenance each year. I have had to replace the steering box, head gasket (did that myself), water pump and rad (did the timing belt at the same time), suspension bushes, CV joints, a swivel; housing, the brake discs and pads, rebuild the callipers with stainless pistons, have some welding done on the foot wells and sill body mounts, new rear wheel arches (the sections that are visible when the rear doors are opened), an new upper tailgate, a little painting and a new clutch and a new fuel injection system... The swivel, welding and clutch were done professionally, while I did the rest at home to save on labour costs. The vehicle is not perfect, but it's reliable and still presentable with its original panels and almost all original paint. Allow for exchange rates and higher costs of parts across the pond and I suspect you're looking at a typical bill of $1,000 per annum, if you do the lesser jobs yourself.
The thing is that these cars are old - mine is one of the last Classics, from 1995, but that makes it 16 years old with 180,000 miles on British roads; potholes and winter salt included. Any vehicle of that mileage and age is going to require more maintenance than a new vehicle, especially a Japanese one, but you have to remember that such an old vehicle is bought cheaply. You also have to remember that with a new vehicle, what you save on maintenance, you spend on taxes and depreciation (and more).
I don't know if your budget would stretch to a D3 (LR3). They're capacious vehicle and extremely comfortable and capable. Just be warned that repairs on these are time consuming and very expensive, and (in Europe, at least) they have an awful reputation for reliability and robustness (particularly the suspension).
I'd go for as new a DII as possible...
Rovertrader
Supporting Sponsor
be particular, and buy all the truck(regardless of model) you can going in, as it will certainly cost more to buy a lesser trruck and bring it up to par. Rovers are notorious for needing things, so find one that has had near everything sorted, but the owner has reached saturation and is ready to unload. Look at the expensive things- head gaskets, steering box, heater cores, etc while the current owner has fixed, and then the window switch puts him over the edge.... This happens all too often.
pixelcodex
Observer
Thanks for the reply Snagger. An LR3 is definitely out of my budget now, and I do most certainly do not want to get into a lot of expensive parts for newer vehicles, or have to deal exclusively with stealerships, unless everything was covered as it was on my Audi. I have seen bills for scheduled maintenance in the several hundreds where I know all they did was change the oil. I can do some basic maintenance, thank you very much, and know the quality of the fluids I out in my vehicle. Hopefully I can learn the rest as I go along. Some people just do not care for that. I do not question people have spent tons of money, but that is hopefully on newer vehicles, and possibly by a dealer that takes advantage of the situation.
Like many people said, it does come to how well the vehicle was taken care of, and frankly luck, but I wanted opinions from actual owners which I got, and welcome all.
I think so far it does narrow down and help my decision to a discovery (hell on leg room alone) so we'll see what I am able to find.
Thanks.
Rocket Ship
Banned
I think $5000/year is way too high as well. A lot of it depends on who does the work. If you take it to a mechanic for everything, it's going to cost a lot. But even then, that's a lot. Gets back to my "luck" thing. If you drop a liner and need a new motor, well, that ups your running average quite a bit.
I've spent about $500/year on my D2, not including mods, and things I've broken from off-roading. If you use the truck hard, it WILL need more maintenance, and that is true even of the haloed Toyotas. The way some of us use these trucks is very similar to the accelerated durability testing the manufacturer does, where they put 20,000 hard miles on it, and say it's equivalent to 100,000 miles of regular usage.
Used more casually, I'd expect a D2 to behave very similarly to an Audi. Any high end European car is going to cost more to keep running than a Chevy Cobalt.
I've spent about $500/year on my D2, not including mods, and things I've broken from off-roading. If you use the truck hard, it WILL need more maintenance, and that is true even of the haloed Toyotas. The way some of us use these trucks is very similar to the accelerated durability testing the manufacturer does, where they put 20,000 hard miles on it, and say it's equivalent to 100,000 miles of regular usage.
Used more casually, I'd expect a D2 to behave very similarly to an Audi. Any high end European car is going to cost more to keep running than a Chevy Cobalt.
Navman
Adventurer
Don't test drive a LR3 if you don't have the budget. At 6'5" you will quickly realize that you should be in a LR3 and not a RRC, D1 or D2. I'm 6'2" and drives of any distance in a D1 were awkward and painful. The ergonomics just don't work with tall people. Your legs will be jammed and at an uncomfortable angle and your neck will get sore from bending over waiting to see when the stop light turns green.
I bought an LR3 for my wife so I could build up the D1 without complaints, but after one good trip in the LR3 (the first Overland Expo), I got rid of the D1. I have had it now for over 2 years.
LR3 Repairs - $0
LR3 Maintenance - $0 (of course I just used up the free maintenance)
Not bad.
Of course, nothing turns my head on the highway like a passing D1 or D2
I bought an LR3 for my wife so I could build up the D1 without complaints, but after one good trip in the LR3 (the first Overland Expo), I got rid of the D1. I have had it now for over 2 years.
LR3 Repairs - $0
LR3 Maintenance - $0 (of course I just used up the free maintenance)
Not bad.
Of course, nothing turns my head on the highway like a passing D1 or D2
I absolutely agree with this...especially the last sentence. I found myself chasing a nice white D1 through Tulsa Wednesday night, just to get a good look at it. How I wish LR could combine the looks of a D1 or D2 with the reliability and performance of a LR3.
Snagger
Explorer
I think luck does play a large factor, but more important is the standard of the vehicle initially bought and the standards the owner aspires to. You're right that a lot of people drive around in complete sheds, oblivious or uncaring about the shabby condition of their vehicle. Less so on this forum than many others - a lot of LR specific forums have Series or Defender owners who take pride in the battered and mud caked appearance of their vehicles in some kind of stupid inverse snobbery, with comments like "it's meant to leak", "it's meant to be dented" and so on (they don't leave the factory with huge dents and tears in the skin, do they? Leaks from new, yes, but they're not meant to do that either...). Fussiness is going to cost, and I'm pretty fussy myself, but I have to temper it with a level of pragmatism given that I support two kids in public school (that's going to cost me about £23k next year), two dogs and the mortgage, plus the fact that we have three LRs (the 109, the RRC and a Lightweight). So, how much you spend on maintenance will depend on how good a vehicle you have in the first place, how many minor defects you can put up with and how much you can afford to spend on it.
Parts are definitely cheaper here, but I suspect it's due to economies of scale, with so many LR dealers and specialist having so much stock here and the fact that LRs are less prestigious here. What is noticeable is that a lot of the components, including OEM, are not made int he UK at all. Worryingly but predictably, following the Tata buy out, more and more parts are coming from India, often with a considerable drop in quality (genuine brake discs are a prime example).
For what it's worth, I am very much a self-taught amateur - a stubborn and now relatively experienced one, but amateur all the same; I work as a B737 captain, which doesn't have many transferable skill sets.
pixelcodex
Observer
The "reality of life" as i would call your sentence about the 2 kids, dogs and mortgage is something very much in consideration for me. I do not want to spend all my time fixing it and not have a vehicle that will serve its basic purpose of transportation.
I have been reading another thread "a question for LR owners" where people talk about their passion for their Landies without regard wether they might have issues with them. I guess i do not have that passion going in since i never owned one. Hence my questions to those who do/have. With the forgiveness of all the people that "are in love" with their LRs or "feel a passion" for them, it is not meant to insult and I cannot understand till I own one. I guess it's like getting into a relationship with a hot woman: you want to weight in before wether she will be too high maintenance besides being hot and that weight will tip the scale in their favor or against.
I have been reading another thread "a question for LR owners" where people talk about their passion for their Landies without regard wether they might have issues with them. I guess i do not have that passion going in since i never owned one. Hence my questions to those who do/have. With the forgiveness of all the people that "are in love" with their LRs or "feel a passion" for them, it is not meant to insult and I cannot understand till I own one. I guess it's like getting into a relationship with a hot woman: you want to weight in before wether she will be too high maintenance besides being hot and that weight will tip the scale in their favor or against.