Larger Tires vs Lower Gearing for an Expedition Vehicle (2.7 Tacoma)

[mbrewer]

tradeoffs

No experience with the newest gen, but I had a 2002 taco with a 3rz-FE (2.7L 4-banger). Stock on that ruck is 265/70R16. I ran it with a 2.5" lift and 265/75R16, no regear... and no armor.

Armor (since someone else brought it up): Way back when I was first building up that rig someone gave me the advice to lift it, and not armor it. The weight of the armor kills performance, and will also hinder acceleration on the road with such a small engine. If you aren't going to push the vehicle to the limit the lift gets you up a bit so you're less likely to hit in the first place. This was great advice, I lived out of the truck and ran tons of trails solo and never broke anything. So, I think there are 2 distinct approaches. Lift it and keep it light but stress your CVs a bit more, or keep it low and armor it and stress your stearing and push your GVWR a bit more.

Tire size: 1" in tire-size doesn't give you much more ground-clearance, what it gives you is a bigger contact patch without airing down as much. Personally, I loved the increase, especially as that truck had fully open diffs. The lift also increased flex on the rear, which helped me get away without a locker in a lot more situations.

I mostly drove that truck at full expedition weight (I was living out of it), and drove it across the country. Up a really steep grade I had to go 65 in an 80 zone 'cause I was stuck in 3'rd gear and didn't want to run my engine continuous over 4k RPM... and a strong headwind on flat ground meant I might have to shift down to 4'th. So it made for a little more work in montana for example... if those things bother you, don't go to a larger tire. Personally, I liked the tradeoff for that specific truck. On the other hand, when I went to get another I got a 6-cyl this time... I'm repeating the minimal armor lift plan though, and I plan to go to 33's eventually.

 

[Clutch]

As others have said. Keep it stock, just get something a little tougher than what is on there. If you're doing more highway miles than dirt, get a less aggressive tread.

A stock Tacoma will go many a place, it will surprise you.


Going slow isn't a bad thing either, now that I am older...I find myself some times driving below the the speed limit, because I am enjoying the view...need one of those orange AG triangles for the back...

 

[plainjaneFJC]

As others have said. Keep it stock, just get something a little tougher than what is on there. If you're doing more highway miles than dirt, get a less aggressive tread.

A stock Tacoma will go many a place, it will surprise you.


Going slow isn't a bad thing either, now that I am older...I find myself some times driving below the the speed limit, because I am enjoying the view...need one of those orange AG triangles for the back...

You better stay out of the fast lane old man!

 

[surlydiesel]

I can comment with my current setup. 06 Access Cab 4X4 2.7 liter 5spd with 235/85R16's with a traction style CT tire. Not as aggressive as a full on MT but much more aggressive than an AT. From the stock size to this tire, it is night and day different. Yes you have to rev each gear higher to stay in the power range when you shift to the next gear, you can feel the weight of the tire and it's not as peppy. Also the traction difference is night and day. The stock Duraflops are complete junk and any AT or MT Tire will be a huge improvement in that dept. I used to have my ABS kicking in constantly. Not once since I got the new tires. I have found I like cruising in 4th gear around 50mph with this setup. It's 2100 rpms and it's a really nice sweet spot for the daily driving to and from work that I do. I'm averaging 20mpg on winter gas and my speedometer is spot on with a GPS test. I plan on staying with this tire size on my 06.

My wife's 2009 Tacoma came with brand new 245/75R16's when we bought it, E Rated. Her truck is a quad cab short bed auto 4X4 and holy crap it's fast in comparison to my truck. You can break the tires loose without trying. Oddly enough, at 70mph on the dash, GPS says we are going 65mph. So I think the slightly taller tire matches up the speedo. I plan on putting 235's on her truck when these wear out. I can use my old tires as spares for both trucks but I will put an AT tire back on her truck and most likely mine as well.

I really like the extra traction in mud and on the dirt roads I travel for work (yes we still have dirt roads in NJ ha ha) but my tires are prob overkill and mainly for my indulgence. The long and the short of it, stay with the 245/75R16's if you want to keep it feeling stock and more peppy. If you want a tiny bit more clearance and want the truck to "look nice" get the 235's. I would suggest staying away from the 265's. Too heavy and too wide for the 2.7. Been there done that, didn't like them on my 01 or on my original 08.

-jorge

 

[Clutch]

You better stay out of the fast lane old man!

I do..I do...


Other than the commute to work, I don't like driving on the highway, try to stick to the back roads...which we have plenty here.

 

[Dalko43]

Armor (since someone else brought it up): Way back when I was first building up that rig someone gave me the advice to lift it, and not armor it. The weight of the armor kills performance, and will also hinder acceleration on the road with such a small engine. If you aren't going to push the vehicle to the limit the lift gets you up a bit so you're less likely to hit in the first place. This was great advice, I lived out of the truck and ran tons of trails solo and never broke anything. So, I think there are 2 distinct approaches. Lift it and keep it light but stress your CVs a bit more, or keep it low and armor it and stress your stearing and push your GVWR a bit more.

Granted I have no experience with that 4 cylinder, but I'd always thought that added vehicle weight has less of an impact on performance than did unsprung weight (especially tires) and increased drag associated with a lift.

If you add weight to get your vehicle to its GVWR and then some, yeah I'd imagine performance is going to be impacted. But I would think that adding a few skid plates and some sliders would have little to no affect as compared to say larger tires or increased drag. I'll throw in 100-200lbs of gear into my 4runner every now and then for trips, and I don't notice much of a dip, if any, in fuel economy and acceleration.

 

[Clutch]

Granted I have no experience with that 4 cylinder, but I'd always thought that added vehicle weight has less of an impact on performance than did unsprung weight (especially tires) and increased drag associated with a lift.

If you add weight to get your vehicle to its GVWR and then some, yeah I'd imagine performance is going to be impacted. But I would think that adding a few skid plates and some sliders would have little to no affect as compared to say larger tires or increased drag. I'll throw in 100-200lbs of gear into my 4runner every now and then for trips, and I don't notice much of a dip, if any, in fuel economy and acceleration.

Since the 4 is at a power disadvantage, you have to ring its' neck to get it going, which consumes more fuel. The more weight you toss on them, the worse the power to weight ratio. I have had a couple 22RE's mileage goes waaay down when you load them up.

 

[mbrewer]

Granted I have no experience with that 4 cylinder, but I'd always thought that added vehicle weight has less of an impact on performance than did unsprung weight (especially tires) and increased drag associated with a lift.

If you add weight to get your vehicle to its GVWR and then some, yeah I'd imagine performance is going to be impacted. But I would think that adding a few skid plates and some sliders would have little to no affect as compared to say larger tires or increased drag. I'll throw in 100-200lbs of gear into my 4runner every now and then for trips, and I don't notice much of a dip, if any, in fuel economy and acceleration.

I agree 100% with Clutch... With the 4-banger and upsized tires I would often wonder if my engine was okay due to a dip in acceleration when I'd start a trive... than realize it was because I had a passenger. My passenger was ~150 lbs... A full set of armor is going to be a lot more than that. Even without upsized tires I guarantee you'll notice it. Honestly, if you drive manual and are used to your rig, you should notice 100 lbs with the v6 too (I have one now), it's just a lot less dramatic. Weight matters, and it matters a lot.

Also, when I said performance I didn't just mean acceleration. I meant things like floatation, hill climbing ability, etc. unsprung weight is huge for acceleration and handling, but weight to torque ratio is what matters when you are trying to get over a rock without wrecking your rig. Extra weight means more skinny pedal, which means more clutch wear or more damage to your rig. When you come off the rock extra weight means more force hitting the thing you come down on as well. Extra weight is more to haul up a hill without spinning out. Extra weight is more you have to keep above the sand. Etc. A torque drop is detrimental in many of those situations too... it's all in the tradeoff.

 

[mbrewer]

Also, you might be under-estimating just how much sliders, skids, and bumpers weigh, and over-estimating the vehicles GVWR.

Sliders are ~100+ lbs. An ARB front bumper is ~150 lbs, a steel swing-out rear bumper is ~200 lbs, a full set of steel skids is ~200 lbs. That's 650 lbs. The 1'st gen Taco's payload is 1488, 2'nd gen is in the same ballpark. Add in a winch and you've used up half your payload before adding any gear or people. You'll notice that difference, no question.

 

[Mickey Bitsko]

Say's the guy with a antique FJ :coffeedrink:

 

[shabba]

FWIW i drive a 2.7l tacoma and am still on the stock gears. ive been on 33s for a year now both load range E and D. I dont find driving to be bad at all. On the highway you will find yourself downshifting into 4th on some steeper inclines or when traffic slows down but it isnt a big deal to me. Its your truck so do with it what you want man and just enjoy driving it. I was contemplating the 235/85 tires as well but i think on the 2nd gens the body is too wide and the tires would be too tucked in and it just wouldnt look right in my honest opinion. I think they are better suited on a 1st gen. Although maybe with no lift and some wheel spacers they wouldnt look too bad. I do know they perform great on icey/snowy road conditions though but i believe they only come in a load range E.

 

[Wasatch]

I am surprised no 235/85/16 fans have chimed in. I ran that size ( in the old style BFG AT ) and it was the only size I would run on the 2.7. It was the best compromise between height and weight... This was on a 2007 2.7 Tacoma.

An no. Don't re-gear for a tire only 1'' or 2'' taller than stock.

Previously i tried the 255/85/16 (too much tire for the 2.7) and 265/75/16 (a good choice too).

 

[Dalko43]

I agree 100% with Clutch... With the 4-banger and upsized tires I would often wonder if my engine was okay due to a dip in acceleration when I'd start a trive... than realize it was because I had a passenger. My passenger was ~150 lbs... A full set of armor is going to be a lot more than that. Even without upsized tires I guarantee you'll notice it. Honestly, if you drive manual and are used to your rig, you should notice 100 lbs with the v6 too (I have one now), it's just a lot less dramatic. Weight matters, and it matters a lot.

Also, when I said performance I didn't just mean acceleration. I meant things like floatation, hill climbing ability, etc. unsprung weight is huge for acceleration and handling, but weight to torque ratio is what matters when you are trying to get over a rock without wrecking your rig. Extra weight means more skinny pedal, which means more clutch wear or more damage to your rig. When you come off the rock extra weight means more force hitting the thing you come down on as well. Extra weight is more to haul up a hill without spinning out. Extra weight is more you have to keep above the sand. Etc. A torque drop is detrimental in many of those situations too... it's all in the tradeoff.

Like I said, I have no experience with the Toyota 4 cylinder, so I can't attest to how it would handle extra weight.

In my own 4runner, stock weight (unloaded) is about 4,600lbs which yields a weight/torque ratio of 16.5
Loading it up with a 400lbs (which I've done on numerous highway and backcountry trips) changes the weight/torque ratio to 17.98

That's about an 8% change in the ratio. Can I feel that difference in weight, even with an auto...a little bit. I've also gotten about 22-23 mpg highway driving with those kinds of loads (which is the upper mpg listed by the EPA). I'm not saying that adding weight won't negatively impact mpg, grunt, or offroad prowess, because I'm sure it does, especially as the weight adds up.

But I'd think a larger rotating mass (tires) and increased air resistance (both of which require torque to overcome) will have a greater impact on your performance than would adding a few hundred lbs of weight...maybe the 4 cylinder is more easily overburdened by the weight, but the 4.0L v6's seem to handle 400-500lbs extra without much of an issue.

 

[Clutch]

Like I said, I have no experience with the Toyota 4 cylinder, so I can't attest to how it would handle extra weight.

In my own 4runner, stock weight (unloaded) is about 4,600lbs which yields a weight/torque ratio of 16.5
Loading it up with a 400lbs (which I've done on numerous highway and backcountry trips) changes the weight/torque ratio to 17.98

That's about an 8% change in the ratio. Can I feel that difference in weight, even with an auto...a little bit. I've also gotten about 22-23 mpg highway driving with those kinds of loads (which is the upper mpg listed by the EPA). I'm not saying that adding weight won't negatively impact mpg, grunt, or offroad prowess, because I'm sure it does, especially as the weight adds up.

But I'd think a larger rotating mass (tires) and increased air resistance (both of which require torque to overcome) will have a greater impact on your performance than would adding a few hundred lbs of weight...maybe the 4 cylinder is more easily overburdened by the weight, but the 4.0L v6's seem to handle 400-500lbs extra without much of an issue.

My buddy's 4Runner impressed me, we had 4 guys, 4 bikes on a open trailer and all the gear...didn't even flinch.

Those 4 bangers have a hard time getting out of their own way. Fine empty...load them up to max payload they aren't happy.

 

[OSV]

factory gearing combos for your truck are all over the map, see the chart on this page: https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/2016-gear-ratios-at-awesome-mt-now-with-double-overdrive.387347/

i'm not seeing a tire size increase of 1" being that big of a deal, but it wouldn't hurt to run the numbers.

toyota also tweaked the motor with vvt i think? it's probably making more power, even if they didn't increase the hp numbers from the year before.

i would go 17" on the wheels, there are far more choices in tires at 17" than there are at 16".