Let me show you how little I know....

[rnArmy]

I've been using CBs for years - decades if you must know. I remember when the big thing was CBs going from 23 channels to 40. On trail rides, I've been using CBs forever. When they work (and they generally do unless you're spread out) CBs work fine. I've got two Jeeps and a truck with CB radios - I even own an antenna tuner (SWR meter).
But lately, folks have been using other radios, including UHF/VHF radios for longer trips.
So in the mail today I got the Rugged Radio 5watt dual band (UHF/VHF) hand-held "Trail Rider" radio kit (dash mount, longer antenna, hand-held mike, etc.). I need to get smart on it (still in the box). Not here to critique Rugged Radio vs. whatever else you've got.
https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1167_1170&products_id=1712
Anyways - dumb question part: Is any of this new dual band radio a "HAM" radio? What constitutes a HAM radio, and when do I need a license?
Eventually I'd like to get one of Rugged Radio's 25watt radios, but I figured this 5watt radio and trail kit (it was on sale 30% off when I ordered it) would be a good start to learn on (and then I'll have a hand-held along with a fixed-mount radio).
Thanks.

 

[outback97]

Your new radio is an amateur radio (ham is just another term for amateur radio and it's not an acronym, so no need to capitalize it) and yes, you need a license to legally transmit with that radio. You can receive and listen in without a license, you just cannot transmit.

To learn more about amateur radio and to study for the exam, I'd recommend hamstudy.org:
https://hamstudy.org/content/what

I am a noob at this hobby so I'm sure others with more experience will chime in. The technician license was relatively easy and inexpensive to get. That's where you want to start.

ETA: there's a good sticky with lots of info here too:
http://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/24082-HAM-radio-amateur-radio-FAQ

 

[prerunner1982]

It is an expensive copy of a cheap chinese ham radio that Rugged Radios likely programmed to "race/off road" frequencies most of which are in the Business Band which also requires a license but they didn't tell you that. Some race teams hold licenses for the frequencies they use, some let other teams use their frequencies, and some teams run illegally. Other people use the same frequencies in other parts of the country, it may be a business, a school, or a municipality.
There are 2 license free frequency bands that that radio could work on, FRS and MURS.....your radio is not type certified legal on either of those. Though most people probably wouldn't know it wasn't a type certified radio.
So really you either need a license or the radio isn't legal where no license is required.

 

[Martinjmpr]

Wow, I just went to their web site. Here's what it says about the radio above:
.

• Comes pre-programmed with over 40 popular channels including Best In The Desert, Baja Pits, Weatherman, BFG Relay, Rescue, Checkers, GMRS channels, and more!

.
No disclaimer anywhere stating that you need a license to operate on those freqs. No warning that operating a transmitter in violation of FCC rules can subject the operator to fines and confiscation of equipment.
.
Yeah, yeah, "let the buyer beware" but still, that seems pretty irresponsible to me.
.
A couple of years ago I went to the local HRO (Ham Radio Outlet) here in Denver to buy a 2m antenna. Before they'd sell me any equipment they wanted to know my call sign.
.
Now, I suppose that could have been just so they could add me to their mailing list (which they did) so I don't know if they would have flat-out refused to sell me the antenna if I wasn't a licensed operator. But it wouldn't surprise me if they would refuse to sell a transceiver to an unlicensed person.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Looks like a rebranded Baofeng UV-5R.

 

[outback97]

I was curious about the frequencies they program in to these radios. I had to call them to get this but here's the list:

1 WTHRMN 151.625
2 BFGRLY 151.715
3 BAJAPTS 154.980
4 NETWORK 151.685
5 CHECKRS 151.925
6 FAIR 150.860
7 YOKOHAM 153.110
8 RUGGED RELAY 152.960
9 CHKRS 2 151.505
10 BFGPITS 153.395
11 MAG 7 153.380
12 RESCUE 155.160
13 CORE 153.245
14 PRIVATE 156.675
15 SANDLMO 152.510
16 PCI RLY 154.515
17 BITD 151.490
18 KOH 1 157.450
19 GMRS 1 462.5625
20 GMRS 2 462.5875
21 GMRS 3 462.6125
22 GMRS 4 462.6375
23 GMRS 5 462.6625
24 GMRS 6 462.6875
25 GMRS 7 462.7125
26 GMRS 8 462.550
27 GMRS 9 462.575
28 GMRS 10 462.600
29 GMRS 11 462.625
30 GMRS 12 462.650
31 GMRS 13 462.675
32 GMRS 14 462.700
33 GMRS 15 462.725
34 GMRS 16 462.750
35 WX 1 162.550
36 WX 2 162.400
37 WX 3 162.475
38 WX 4 162.425
29 WX 5 162.450
40 WX 6 162.500
41 WX 7 162.525

There is a disclaimer at the top of that document that says:

Content provided is included for the sole purpose of providing
educational information on a passive basis. Frequencies shown
have been compiled from various sources. It is the end user's
repsonsibility to observe FCC regulations for proper use and
programming of any radio frequency.

Looks like it's your "repsonsibility" to use them properly

 

[prerunner1982]

I was curious about the frequencies they program in to these radios. I had to call them to get this but here's the list:

1 WTHRMN 151.625

There are 2701 licensed users of 151.625 Mhz.. below are the first 100 that appeared in my search.
Recognize any of them? Union Pacific, FCA USA, Subaru, University of Oklahoma, NM State University, BP, Exxon, Boeing,
Vertex standard (Yaesu ham radios), UPS.

Would hate to interfere with some of these.


1 KA20839 W S BELLOWS CONSTRUCTION CORPORATION 0003758604 IG Active 06/03/2022
2 KA2337 UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY 0001539048 IG Active 03/16/2023
3 KA25576 WIEMER, FRED 0008784548 IG Active 06/30/2023
4 KA30835 El Paso Natural Gas Company, L.L.C. 0001688134 IG Active 07/12/2023
5 KA39699 GEORGIA-PACIFIC LLC 0004524807 IG Active 05/21/2024
6 KA43362 Sharp & Smith, Inc. 0001634674 IG Active 10/05/2023
7 KA51099 BP Exploration (Alaska) Inc. 0003477551 IG Active 05/08/2024
8 KA52446 INDO AMERICAN ENGINEERING INC 0001625680 IG Active 09/23/2024
9 KA52965 MOORMAN KIZER & REITZEL INC 0001961358 IG Active 05/30/2024
10 KA56942 FCA US LLC 0018798413 IG Active 08/08/2024
11 KA61099 LAWRENCE BEHR ASSOCIATES INC 0001956960 IG Active 07/07/2024
12 KA61378 COOSA VALLEY COMMUNICATION INC 0001847748 IG Active 08/31/2024
13 KA6191 EMPIRE DISTRICT ELECTRIC COMPANY 0002503977 IG Active 09/28/2025
14 KA64794 TCS COMMUNICATIONS CORP 0006103824 IG Active 01/25/2025
15 KA65118 Vertex Standard USA. Inc 0001523877 IG Active 05/13/2021
16 KA65159 HALL, TOM 0004259909 IG Active 03/08/2021
17 KA68101 COTTER CORPORATION 0001617927 IG Active 11/30/2024
18 KA68665 KaMin, LLC 0018530543 IG Active 02/28/2025
19 KA69222 WILSON & CO ENGINEERS & ARCH 0012515532 IG Active 04/26/2025
20 KA69559 Pacific Gas and Electric Company 0001551555 IG Active 02/22/2025
21 KA70044 MCI Communications 0004335592 IG Active 06/21/2025
22 KA72917 TOWER SITE COMMUNICATIONS, LLC 0007136013 IG Active 08/27/2025
23 KA73141 OSSIPEE MOUNTAIN ELECTRONICS INC 0004050621 IG Active 09/17/2025
24 KA73597 LEVO, PAUL 0000011247 IG Active 05/09/2025
25 KA73830 UNITED PARCEL SERVICE 0006235527 IG Active 04/26/2024
26 KA73925 THE BOEING COMPANY 0001583483 IG Active 01/05/2024
27 KA76149 TOLEDO WEAK SIGNALS INC 0002912640 IG Active 05/14/2023
28 KA77600 SMITH, DAVID D 0020184180 IG Active 11/26/2020
29 KA78104 RESOURCE CONCEPTS INC. 0001594308 IG Active 08/10/2025
30 KA78840 TODD & SARGENT INC DBA TODD & SARGENT, INC. 0013559471 IG Active 08/17/2025
31 KA79758 SUNDE LAND SURVEYING LLC 0005676796 IG Active 10/30/2025
32 KA80999 NEW ENTERPRISE STONE & LIME CO INC 0003270014 IG Active 05/06/2021
33 KA81542 YOUNG LIFES WINDY GAP 0020573739 IG Active 01/30/2021
34 KA82648 SCCA SAN FRANCISCO REGION 0007179575 IG Active 08/11/2022
35 KA83960 GREMMER AND ASSOCIATES, INC 0004153276 IG Active 09/30/2021
36 KA84521 Halliburton Energy Services, Inc. 0001702661 IG Active 08/26/2021
37 KA86631 KADRMAS LEE & JACKSON INC 0002474377 IG Active 01/12/2022
38 KA86906 BP AMOCO CORPORATION 0002856839 IG Active 11/08/2024
39 KA88433 MOON LAKE ELECTRIC ASSOCIATION 0001590553 IG Active 12/19/2021
40 KA89630 MICHIGAN TECHNOLOGICAL UNIVERSITY 0012365383 IG Active 04/07/2022
41 KA90813 DOMINGUE SZABO & ASSOCIATES INC 0001712033 IG Active 01/08/2022
42 KA90834 NORTHERN NJ REGION PORSCHE CLUB OF AMERICA 0003302692 IG Active 12/18/2025
43 KA92096 DOWL ENGINEERS 0006214555 IG Active 03/14/2022
44 KA92848 RUSSEL, FRANK E 0003067303 IG Active 03/16/2022
45 KA92953 BUTLER NATIONAL GOLF CLUB 0008218679 IG Active 01/12/2023
46 KA93042 FOSLIEN, TIM 0006227607 IG Active 02/06/2022
47 KA93110 J & B CONSTRUCTION 0011895497 IG Active 09/17/2025
48 KA93170 ISLAND SURVEY INC 0008498263 IG Active 05/17/2023
49 KA93877 SALCHA SKI CLUB 0001571694 IG Active 04/30/2022
50 KA95884 SUBARU RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, INC 0007756406 IG Active 01/19/2023
51 KA96872 National Grid USA Service Company Inc. 0003628997 IG Active 12/21/2023
52 KA96994 LIBERTY LINES TRANSIT INC 0006864409 IG Active 05/04/2022
53 KAG987 Kiewit Corp 0005607718 IG Active 08/22/2021
54 KAM455 Shafer, Kline & Warren, Inc. 0002329795 IG Active 09/23/2022
55 KAV210 ERVIN, MICHAEL L 0009515446 IG Active 08/31/2023
56 KAW221 Zappia, Henry K 0003750908 IG Active 08/05/2022
57 KB20698 LAKE MOHAVE RESORT 0007085061 IG Active 06/30/2022
58 KB20801 DAVIS ENGINEERING SERVICE INC 0006677363 IG Active 07/21/2022
59 KB20842 RITRON INC 0005274816 IG Active 07/06/2022
60 KB22302 GRACON CORPORATION 0005764956 IG Active 09/26/2021
61 KB24022 Massman Construction 0002509149 IG Active 09/15/2022
62 KB24817 Doppelmayr Ctec, Inc. 0008031346 IG Active 10/01/2022
63 KB25179 NORTHWEST ENGINEERING SERVICE INC 0001560929 IG Active 09/30/2022
64 KB26185 UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA 0022251391 IG Active 07/26/2024
65 KB26355 GOLDEN VALLEY INC 0007251606 IG Active 09/23/2022
66 KB30214 COUNTRY CLUB OF JACKSON 0001744168 IG Active 07/12/2023
67 KB31059 ON LINE EXPLORATION SERVICES INC 0010733285 IG Active 05/02/2024
68 KB31747 BRIDGER SKI FOUNDATION 0004255915 IG Active 12/19/2023
69 KB32899 APEX SURVEYING, INC. 0001625201 IG Active 06/21/2024
70 KB34563 FELHC, Inc. 0004166369 IG Active 02/18/2022
71 KB35472 NEW MEXICO STATE UNIV SPECIAL EVENTS 0009346768 IG Active 08/22/2023
72 KB36839 FREMMING PARSON & PECCHENINO 0001543065 IG Active 09/12/2023
73 KB37083 WAYNE J GRIFFIN ELECTRIC INC 0009289471 IG Active 07/11/2023
74 KB39561 ALLIANCE ENGINEERING 0001603570 IG Active 08/03/2023
75 KB39841 JENKINS, PAUL L 0014369243 IG Active 11/09/2025
76 KB41271 LOISEAU, CHARLES R 0006428452 IG Active 09/26/2023
77 KB41272 COOK FLATT & STROBEL ENGINEERS 0002331346 IG Active 09/27/2023
78 KB41285 SKI PLATTEKILL INC 0003476850 IG Active 10/14/2023
79 KB41724 SHERWIN, BRIAN 0002405579 IG Active 04/03/2021
80 KB44173 NORTHEAST AIRMOTIVE INC 0009799461 IG Active 11/16/2023
81 KB44259 CASPER MOUNTAIN RACERS 0001627520 IG Active 02/27/2024
82 KB47187 KMIGT -- Heartland 0021733332 IG Active 01/12/2022
83 KB48085 BALDWIN & SHELL CONSTRUCTION CO 0010171353 IG Active 01/18/2024
84 KB49975 R. W. GASBARRE & ASSOCIATES, INC. 0004168258 IG Active 01/10/2024
85 KB51019 Raytheon Missile Systems 0008658098 IG Active 03/03/2024
86 KB52583 EXXON COMMUNICATIONS COMPANY 0003464575 IG Active 08/10/2023
87 KB52923 PUBLIX SUPER MARKETS INC 0001825082 IG Active 03/21/2024
88 Pending Application KB63336 Michels Corp 0004801429 IG Active 07/20/2024
89 KB65316 DAY, CORY H 0002280816 IG Active 08/05/2024
90 KB66467 Buffalo Sportservice LLC 0022479943 IG Active 12/15/2024
91 KB66981 Northrop Grumman Systems Corporation 0003800133 IG Active 12/08/2024
92 KB67511 OIL CENTER RESEARCH INC 0012084463 IG Active 01/29/2025
93 KB67590 SPORTS CAR CLUB OF AMERICA Indianapolis Region Inc. 0002904639 IG Active 05/06/2025
94 KB68543 MC NAUGHTON NURSERIES INC 0003309549 IG Active 04/03/2025
95 KB68930 EL AERO SERVICE INC 0001595446 IG Active 03/15/2024
96 KB68986 YOUNGLOVE CONSTRUCTION LLC 0010923431 IG Active 01/29/2025
97 KB71492 BALLARD CLC INC 0001711381 IG Active 09/25/2025
98 KB72639 LAWRENCE BEHR ASSOCIATES INC 0001956960 IG Active 06/27/2025
99 KB74252 CAMPBELL SCIENTIFIC, INC. 0001605005 IG Active 08/20/2025
100 KB74276 TOLEDO PLYWOOD 0002937167 IG Active 08/27/2025

 

[prerunner1982]

I was curious about the frequencies they program in to these radios. I had to call them to get this but here's the list:
3 BAJAPTS 154.980

154.980 Mhz... this is a good one. 644 Licensed users, damn near all of them are City, State, County, Police or Fire... all over the country. I picked 5 that appeared next to each other on the search list and found, CA, AZ, TX, WI, and NY..

1 KA5725 LYCOMING, COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY 0003199437 PW Active 11/25/2021
2 KAN538 CALIFORNIA, STATE OF 0001724541 PW Active 01/16/2025
3 KAN914 CALIFORNIA, STATE OF 0001724541 PW Active 01/15/2022
4 KAO238 CALIFORNIA, STATE OF 0001724541 PW Active 06/05/2021
5 KAO242 CALIFORNIA, STATE OF 0001724541 PW Active 06/05/2021
6 KB23891 LINCOLN, COUNTY OF 0005770474 PW Active 08/22/2022
7 KB25211 Skandia/West Branch Townships Joint Operations 0002750347 PW Active 02/22/2023
8 KB64431 Monmouth, County of 0003323136 PW Active 01/20/2025
9 KB71654 STARK, TOWN OF 0003655891 PW Active 05/03/2025
10 KB72851 ALLEGANY, COUNTY OF 0003397833 PW Active 04/05/2024
11 KB84988 SALEM, CITY OF 0005617394 PW Active 09/25/2021
12 KBF832 AVON LAKE, CITY OF 0002916609 PW Active 02/09/2022
13 KBF915 ERIE REGIONAL AIRPORT AUTHORITY 0003167566 PW Active 04/10/2022
14 KBI973 STARK COUNTY 0019462514 PW Active 10/24/2021
15 KBK854 GREENEVILLE, CITY OF 0005420203 PW Active 10/25/2021
16 KBL517 VILLAGE OF WILMETTE 0002830438 PW Active 04/18/2024
17 KBL636 COLONIAL HEIGHTS, CITY OF 0002035376 PW Active 03/22/2022
18 KBQ396 SEA GIRT, BOROUGH OF 0004451977 PW Active 09/20/2023
19 KBQ400 MANASQUAN, BOROUGH OF 0003323391 PW Active 12/31/2020
20 KBQ735 State of Maryland - MDOT - MAA 0022738371 PW Active 11/21/2025

 

[Rando]

I would ask for my money back. Not only did they rip you off by selling you a $25 radio for $130, it is illegal for you to actually use it. I made my feelings about these shysters pretty clear in the other Rugged Radios thread.

 

[rnArmy]

Yes - I looked at the Baofeng 5watt and 8watt radios on Amazon.com, and decided to go with the Rugged Radio (RR) as an introduction radio. Right now I'm less concerned with the platform, and more concerned with everything else. Supposedly I can program more channels into this RR radio without having to connect to a computer. And if this RR radio is illegal to use, so would the Baofeng radios. But I'm wanting to become legal.

So both UHF and VHF frequencies are considered ham radio frequencies (?) is what I'm hearing.

Thank-you Outback97 for the links. I will check them out when I get a chance, and see about getting the technician license. I'm not looking to start a new hobby (ham radio); I'm just wanting to get smarter on this, and do the right thing (be legal) if I'm out with others and we're communicating with these types of radios as trail communication.

I'm hoping if on a trip with a group of others, we'd be on some obscure ham channel that nobody else is using. I don't know how many channel options there are using one of these UHF/VHF radios.

One (or more) of my 4WD-type magazines have group runs they sponsor, and currently they're requiring folks to have these types of radios (and not using CB radios).

So obviously there's a lot for me to learn. This is great though - thanks!
-

EDIT: This RR radio will not allow you to get into the ham bands - so if you're wanting a little hand-held radio to do so, this is not the radio to get. I tried with Chirp to extend the range and it will not allow you to do so.

 

[BigDaveZJ]

Yes - I looked at the Baofeng 5watt and 8watt radios on Amazon.com, and decided to go with the Rugged Radio (RR).

You ended up buying the Baofeng 5 watt radio for a lot more than it can be had for without the Rugged Ridge name on it.

 

[prerunner1982]

So both UHF and VHF frequencies are considered ham radio frequencies (?) is what I'm hearing.

Depends on what the frequency is. Could be Business band, FRS, GMRS, MURS, Amateur radio, Public Service, Marine/Maritime radio....etc.

 

[rnArmy]

You ended up buying the Baofeng 5 watt radio for a lot more than it can be had for without the Rugged Ridge name on it.

But it is a pretty blue color. Isn't that worth something?
I'm hoping if I have a problem with the radio, it will be easier to deal with Rugged Radio vs. Amazon.com.

 

[prerunner1982]

But it is a pretty blue color. Isn't that worth something?
I'm hoping if I have a problem with the radio, it will be easier to deal with Rugged Radio vs. Amazon.com.

But a $30 radio is disposable.

 

[prerunner1982]

I must be bored...

Here is who you could be intefering with by using the frequencies programmed into that radio.

1 WTHRMN 151.625
2701 Licensed users. Including: Union Pacific, FCA US, Subaru, University of Oklahoma, NM State University, BP, Exxon, Boeing,
Vertex standard (Yaesu ham radios), UPS

2 BFGRLY 151.715
1243 Licensed users. Including: Many school districts, City/State agencies, McDonalds, and various businesses.

3 BAJAPTS 154.980
644 License users. Including: State, City, County, Police and Fire for States all over the country.

4 NETWORK 151.685
1232 Licensed users. Including: American Airlines, School districts and Universities, Costco, fast food restaurants.

5 CHECKRS 151.925
1178 License users. Including: Verizon, Haliburton, Hospitals, City/State, Schools/Colleges, various businesses.

6 FAIR 150.860
127 License users. Including: Hospitals, automotive, schools.

7 YOKOHAM 153.110
396 License users. Including: Exxon, Marathon Oil, Shell, ConocoPhillips, Chevron, NBC Telemundo, FCA US, CBS, Clear Channel, various other TV/Radio.

8 RUGGED RELAY 152.960
653 Licensed users. Including: Various Oil/Gas companies, Concrete companies, Kingsford Charcoal, many farms, Urgent Ambulance service, schools.

9 CHKRS 2 151.505
1736 Licensed users. Including: UPS, Construction companies, Conoco, Phillips 66, Exxon, Goodyear, AM General, T-Mobile, Tampa Bay Search and Rescue & REACT. Denali Off Road club holds a license for their members.

10 BFGPITS 153.395
282 Licensed users. Including: FCA US, Northrop Grumman, Dow Corning, Oil/Gas, farms, Tyson foods, Kroger, Oklahoma State University, Boeing.

11 MAG 7 153.380
295 Licensed users. Including: GE, PPG Paints, Ford, Trane, Citgo, 3M, Green Bay Packaging, Valero, Yokohama Tires, OK State, University of Texas Permian Basin, Idaho Power Company, New Hampshire, Electric Coop, IBM.

12 RESCUE 155.160
1133 Licensed Users. Including: National Ski Patrol, many search and rescue teams, many municipalities, schools, and hospitals.

13 CORE 153.245
227 Licensed Users. Including: Sinclair, Exxon, Dow Corning, Northrop Grumman, 3M, Volvo Trucks, Nestle Purina, various manufacturing companies, Dana (axles), many schools, municipalities.

14 PRIVATE 156.675
117 Licensed Users. Including: Municipalities, Chevron, Shell, towing companies, oil/gas, many maritime businesses,

15 SANDLMO 152.510
53 Licensed Users. Including: Communication companies, Telephone companies,

16 PCI RLY 154.515
1738 Licensed Users. Including: Municipalities, many Hospitals, many schools, Fastfood.

17 BITD 151.490
540 Licensed Users. Including: Oregon State Forestry, Nevada Dept of Wildlife, State of Arizona, Penn State Police, State of California, farms, NH State Dept of Corrections, City/County, State of Maine Info Tech, Texas DOT, schools, State of Washington, State of West Virginia, Lockheed Martin,

18 KOH 1 157.450
200 Lincesed Users. Including: many hospitals, schools, City/County, State of New Jersey, City of New York, State of Colorado, State of California, State of New Mexico, LA County, State of Nebraska.