Let's talk making great images.

SeaRubi

Explorer
Ike, first, the exclamation marks and suggestion that I'm trying to do anything to anyone here suggests you're angry.

Trevor, my apologies - not angry, just a bit frustrated. If it's worth discussing, to me, it's worth discussing passionately! This often comes across online as anger when it should be considered "spirited". :sombrero:

Photography can stand for many things! It needn't just be art. Documentary photographs need only a good exposure and reasonable framing. Making a factual account of the world through photographs doesn't require imagination. They could be technically sound images with great exposures, but does that make it a great image?

I think that, perhaps like my own trajectory, there's a point when any person who's serious about photography moves from a basis of looking to capture pretty images and duplicating trendy techniques (HDR, anyone?) toward a basis of creating images through the techniques of visualization. Having a technical proficiency with the equipment of your choice and control over the medium is, of course, a prerequisite. But, to boil photography down to a system of technical mastery is severely limiting. This is what I felt you're trying to say with your treatment of light and an intense focus on the physicality of the camera as device. To me, the camera is a construct - an extension. As I get better, my familiarity with the physics of the device allow my "inner eye" to use the camera as the construct. I call this "inner eye" the soul - that's the spiritual part of the medium, for me. It represents how I see and visualize the world, which is different and unique to all of us as individuals.

While many people are indeed practicing with the camera, I feel that most are failing to also practice and develop the process of visualization. These mental processes also take time to mature, as I have read repeatedly, and as I am finding after several years of shooting. Like the familiarity of camera equipment, the process of visualization should become second-nature in how one approaches photography. It seems very important in my opinion that the photographer is advancing their level of skill on each of these paths in parallel. At some point, the photographer's skill level in each area meets and intersects and begins working together to create images that are true to his mental image, as opposed to fumbling with controls, or being confronted with results that have no bearing on what he was attempting to achieve.

The best part about visualization is that it does not require even one snap of the shutter. I try to practice this where ever I go by looking at a scene and planning inside my head what elements would create a good image. I practice photography every day, most of the day, with no camera at all. Most of the time I find nothing in that image that stirs any emotion. It merely is a pretty image. Or, for me, likely just an ugly one with no real context or purpose.

To be better I've enjoyed using a wide variety of different cameras. I really like finding old throw-away 35mm. The last two I received were Vivitar models - no flash, no meter, fixed aperture. In an attempt to be as stealth as possible, I painted it a dark gray color and used it to shoot 2 rolls of film at a political demonstration on Wall Street. It is amazing how close you can get to people with them having no idea you're even holding a camera! I took several shots while briefly pausing in my stride, angled up at various people shouting. I held it high over my head pointing down into the crowd. I shot crouched down low looking up at protesters and attempting to capture them mid-shout with the sign wavering over their heads. It was one of the best times I've ever had taking pictures.

In terms of skill, one of the things I have been trying to do for the past 6 months or so is to take my light meter with me as I commute on the buses and trains. I'll look at a scene and try to guess what exposure values will work best for the scene, and then I meter it. I'm finding that training my eye in this way has made some very dramatic differences not only in my results, but in my ability to capture shots as they happen.

Incidentally, I tried doing this initially from the basis of reading a scene in my head with EV, but I'm generally off, and I still haven't memorized the tables to be able to convert EV into normal exposure values. My first attempt was to think in the Zone System, but after reducing that training to 35mm roll film to adjusting up or down a couple stops for the exposure only, it didn't seem very useful for my purposes and usual method of capturing images on the go. I don't process my film, and any desire to do so is centered on convenience and limiting cost.

After the move to California, I've begun a new project snapping photographs of empty seats. The images, to me, are horrific. They look plain, but it's what they represent to me when I took them. Abandonment. Loneliness. Isolation. Depression. Waking up on the R in Queens. I see all of those things in my photographs. It's tough to keep snapping these, but I do enjoy comparing how different devices interpret the scene when I attempt to shoot them as "straight" as possible. No funky camera tricks - just straight angles and a good enough exposure. These last endeavors on a personal level are disturbing images, and it's forced me to reconcile many events that have transpired in the past 18 months. I doubt any of them are great shots. But the power of the medium is now painfully obvious to me. This is the nature of what I'm trying to convey - it's not just about the shot. It's about what the shot means and how the viewer interacts with it - even if the viewer is only the photographer.

cheers,
-ike
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
Bravo Trevor, Michael, et al!

This is a most interesting thread, particularly as I first started paying attention to Trevor's work as he had visited many sites that I knew rather well. I admired his work, but also noted that some of our images were almost identical. Given a gap of some twenty years, I thought this was interesting. Trevor noted that there was only so much you could do with certain sites and shots. But it was equally clear that he was trying to take artistic images as well as the usual "this-is-me-in-lower-nowherestan."

So on behalf of those of us who are not professionals or artists, some thoughts, hopefully not too random:

-- Don't take good cameras away from us hacks - our volume of purchasing helps keep your prices down! :)

-- Not all photography needs to be art. I have hundreds of pictures that are valuable only because they show friends, places I've visited, etc. Many are posted on my website so that other friends can share them.

-- That said, all of us can benefit from learning the "rules" of art (composition, etc.) and technology (exposure, etc.) and even our snapshots can benefit. Often a more artistic, interesting image is no harder to take than a boring one. Why take boring, even for Aunt Millie?

-- The greatest vision is useless (in photography) if you can't stop the action (or blur it) or expose properly (whether "properly" means light or dark. Ya gotta be able to work your camera. This is similar to the issues of technique for musicians or brush control for painters and is no less valid.

-- So maybe part of what separates art from snapshot is universal appeal/value. While certain images make sense in the context of a specific trip, vacation, family, or even location, really artistic images will be able to stand alone.

So a game for us hacks - go through your collections and see if you can identify five images which can stand on their own merits. Images which will catch the eye and hold the attention of a total stranger. Then ask yourself why you picked those five and not the next five.

Submitted for you consideration.
 
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photoman

Explorer
These thread seems to be getting off track a bit by all the I do this, I do that, I think this, blah blah blah.

For those towards are more advanced level of photography or even those that think they are this debate can go on and on however it not really providing much useful information to those looking to improve their work. The thread is departing from its title and purpose.


To steer it back on track I would like Mr. Slade to describe the 3 shots he shared earlier.

Michael- you described the process you used to take and develop these images but I would like you to share with us the vision and the intent of these images. You mentioned you took these specifically for this auction. How does this scene represent or reach those that are apart of the auction? Was that part of the vision you had? Was the original intent always to be a triptych or did that come about once you arrived at the location? Did the scene fit the goal of a triptych or did a triptych fit the goal of the scene?
Why did you choose the camera which you did? Was it to present a level of difficulty or experience or was it the best tool for the scene or image goal?


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photoman

Explorer
So a game for us hacks - go through your collections and see if you can identify five images which can stand on their own merits. Images which will catch the eye and hold the attention of a total stranger. Then ask yourself why you picked those five and not the next five.

Submitted for you consideration.

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2.
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4.
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5.
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Overland Hadley

on a journey
To steer it back on track I would like Mr. Slade to describe the 3 shots he shared earlier.

Michael- you described the process you used to take and develop these images but I would like you to share with us the vision and the intent of these images. You mentioned you took these specifically for this auction. How does this scene represent or reach those that are apart of the auction? Was that part of the vision you had? Was the original intent always to be a triptych or did that come about once you arrived at the location? Did the scene fit the goal of a triptych or did a triptych fit the goal of the scene?
Why did you choose the camera which you did? Was it to present a level of difficulty or experience or was it the best tool for the scene or image goal?

If you could talk a little about your printing of the sky. I would be interested in knowing your thoughts and ideas.

Nice job with the image as a triptych. I have a hard time understanding most triptychs, but this one "works." Is it being framed in one frame or three?
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Trevor, my apologies - not angry, just a bit frustrated.

Ike, it's no problem.

I think I can sum up your entire argument though in four words. Shoot Compelling Subject Matter! Guess what, I couldn't agree more! Here's the but though, what's compelling to you may not be compelling to me. An abandoned railway station may hold a certain feel or beauty for you but it may mean nothing to me. The same can be said for nature, or any of a million different social subjects. What separates a photo of a child sitting on a pile of garbage from a photo of a CHILD SITTING on a pile of GARBAGE is the language we use in our images. The difference boils down to our understanding of the subject matter, what is key to making our point, and our understanding of our craft, which is photography.

Yes it's easy to say "so what" to a picture of a beautiful landscape but consider this, Ansel Adams work was instrumental in the protection of the area's he so loved. Which brings up a very important point, shoot what you love. If you're passionate about the stuggle of peoples, show me. If you're passionate about the protection of wild places, show me. It's why I shoot nature more than anything else. It's what I love. If I look at Mr. Slades images I can see the love he has for the Great Salt Lake area. Simply taking a photo of something that could be seen as compelling will not make the image a compelling image though. If you want to draw attention to something you have to really know what it is want to highlight and what you're doing with camera. Why is it that we talk about Henri Cartier-Bresson's images so. Is it that he simply shot things of interest, or is it that he really knew how to illuminate those things that were of interest to him.

This whole thread is about making great images that express most clearly what we love. If I can take a picture of a beautiful landscape that grabs someone, and they say "wow we need to protect that," then on some small level I have created something that serves my interests. If someone looks and simply says, "eh," then I fail. The difference though is in the details.
 
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Michael Slade

Untitled
Here's the deal with the triptych.

I knew I was going to make a tryptich for this piece. I knew it was going to be printed in platinum. Right now I am shooting a lot of very wide panoramas, and wanted to make a film-based panorama that was larger than my 8x20 camera could make. I shot the 11x14 in the vertical orientation with the final image size in mind. I was nervous about shooting them horizontally b/c usually the distortion in the landscape does weird things compositionally. I also wanted this to be pretty grand in size and something people would want to hang on their wall.

About half-way through the shooting I knew it would be something I would not want to give away, so I decided to make three of them, keeping one for myself.

I knew I wanted to go to at least two different locations so that I would have some variety to choose from.

When I got to my first location I liked it, but when I got the negatives out of the Pyro I knew that the first negatives had been both under-exposed and under-developed. So...I don't get to use location #1.

For location #2, this was my original location I had in my mind. I had to reserve the photo-blind at this location and knew I would shoot this pond. I walked up and down this dike finding a spot that would work well as both a pano and a tryptich. I set up the camera three times, the third time being this image (how fitting...).

This image has a beginning, a middle and an end. It also has the miraculous benefit of being damn near symmetrical. I love that about this shot and planned the placement of the frames to take advantage of the natural shapes in the landscape.

This image is to be presented in one mat, floating the prints in an off-white, cream colored mat with a rich brown frame. It should be an heirloom piece to anyone that likes it enough to pay real money for it.

The sky in the shot that was posted is very light, and on the left image, nearly blown out. Those are test prints and the sky is decidedly light.

So, I like this image on several levels. They are:

1. I found a spot that lent itself to a natural panorama.
2. I found a spot that lent itself to a triptych.
3. They miraculously happened to be the same spot.
4. I knew my materials and equipment to execute the shot.
5. I like the image as a single image...and I like the image bisected into a triptych.
6. I like that I was able to pre-visualize and execute according to my plan. It doesn't always work like that.
7. It will be done ahead of deadline...again...it doesn't always work like that.
8. Most importantly, it FEELS like I wanted it to. I hope it goes beyond the printed image and into the viewer. If it doesn't, regardless of how much work I've put into it, I have failed. I hope I have not failed.

Thanks for asking.

Now...someone better pay some real cash for it, or *I'll* end up buying it at the auction myself. :Wow1:
 
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Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
So a game for us hacks - go through your collections and see if you can identify five images which can stand on their own merits. Images which will catch the eye and hold the attention of a total stranger. Then ask yourself why you picked those five and not the next five.

FIVE!?! Hell, I'd be hard pressed to pick even one. I've taken a few decent shots but something that I think is unequivocally me, and can stand on it's own, very tough, I don't think I have one of those. Nah, I'm still searching for my "Afghan girl."
 
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Overland Hadley

on a journey
In terms of skill, one of the things I have been trying to do for the past 6 months or so is to take my light meter with me as I commute on the buses and trains. I'll look at a scene and try to guess what exposure values will work best for the scene, and then I meter it. I'm finding that training my eye in this way has made some very dramatic differences not only in my results, but in my ability to capture shots as they happen.

Lots of great ideas, including this one. Thanks for the post!
 

DiploStrat

Expedition Leader
You just made my point.

FIVE!?! Hell, I'd be hard pressed to pick even one. I've taken a few decent shots but something that I think is unequivocally me, and can stand on it's own, very tough, I don't think I have one of those. Nah, I'm still searching for my "Afghan girl."

Funny, as soon as you wrote "Afghan Girl" I knew the image you meant without even clicking the link. There are many similar images, "Times Square Kiss", "Iwo Jima Flag", and others. One point is that few of these iconic, artistic images where set up and shot to be artistic; there was a huge element of chance involved. Some have posted here that they were able to imagine a shot before they arrived at the site; these images were just the opposite. But I would argue that the photographers still had to know how to operate their cameras. And more to the point, they had to have the eye to recognize the moment.

(And you are being a bit hard on yourself.)
 
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Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
Are we done with this already?

My goodness I hope not, we haven't even touched the surface let alone scratched it. I'm super busy with work and getting the final details ironed out on an upcoming trip so time to contribute for me is limited at the moment, but that shouldn't stop others.

Possible topics to discuss:
Tone, light and line, light and shapes, light and texture, light and perspective, perspective and it's variables, sharpness, size, placement, obliqueness. Color, color and emotion, colour and time, color and composition. Dynamics, dominace, balance, proportion, pattern, rhythm, deformation. Center of interest, bases, picture space, frames, symbolism yada yada yada, and that's just visual design topics. Keep going guys there are a ton of things that could be talked about.
 

Lost Canadian

Expedition Leader
I like the 'yadda yadda yadda'.

LOL.

Another thing that could be discussed is inspiration. What turns your crank visually, and why? For me drawing inspiration from the world around is relatively easy, but concentrating it into something that I can make sense of sometimes isn't. Not to mention moments of real life can sometimes be fleeting making it difficult to stop and really think about what it is you're seeing. To help me make sense of visual aesthetics I often turn to traditional art, and one of my favorite artists to draw inspiration, influence, and understanding from is Heather Haynes. I love everything about her work, her use of texture, color, yada yada. But as much as I love her work on the surface it's her use of those visual elements that really helps me understand what they actually mean and look like. One of the key elements of learning for me is simply having the ability to recognize good visual design when I see it, and I have no doubt that the endless review of art and others images has aided me in making better images myself. So how about you guys and gals? Where do you draw influence from, and how does it help you?
 
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photoman

Explorer
How about posting some more images to provide an example of a topic. It is great to theorize but specific images that can be discussed will be far more beneficial to everyone interested in improving.
 

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