Let's talk making great images.

[Michael Slade]

Over the past few years I have really started to look less and less at photographers and more at painters. I find that since I really wished that I'd been born with the ability to draw and paint, that I want to photograph things like the painters I admire painted their own subjects. I find a lot of inspiration from their treatment of light and perspective.

With this project on the Great Salt Lake I have been drawing inspiration from a variety of sources...mainly those artists that have come before me. This is specific to this project because I want to see how others have treated the same subject matter. I have found a lot of humor with the painters and drawers in that they are able to create compositions that physically cannot happen.

I have also turned to early and contemporary authors and their treatment of Great Salt Lake. Their writings, descriptions and anecdotes have provided me with immense inspiration and ideas for subjects and areas I would like to try to photograph. I like the idea ultimately of narrating my documentation of the lake with their words. Often I will go out looking for a way to illustrate with a photograph a particular passage or description of the lake and the experiences that they have had.

Another rather unusual source of inspiration for me are maps. I LOVE looking at paper maps of areas I would like to explore further or areas that I have been to repeatedly. The maps give me ideas of views and alternate routes into and out of a location looking for a different angle. I also love looking at historic maps and see how early explorers treated the land and named places. This will also give me ideas about how the first explorers and cartographers thought about the lake.

I just finished reading a book about John Hudson. Hudson was Howard Stansbury's official 'illustrator' during Stansbury's first survey of Great Salt Lake. Hudson's writings and illustrations are a deep source of ideas and inspiration.

Ironically I find that those who have gone before me both visually and with writing in words share many of the same, if not identical impressions and thoughts about the lake that I do.

 

[Lost Canadian]

How about posting some more images to provide an example of a topic. It is great to theorize but specific images that can be discussed will be far more beneficial to everyone interested in improving.

How about chewing on this. Certainly there's plenty of things going on in this image to digest. There, no more theorizing. :elkgrin: I know what I like and why but this bag of wind needs to get to bed, long day tomorrow. So I'll leave it with you guys and simply say adieu.

 

[photoman]

How about chewing on this. Certainly there's plenty of things going on in this image to digest. There, no more theorizing. :elkgrin: I know what I like and why but this bag of wind needs to get to bed, long day tomorrow. So I'll leave it with you guys and simply say adieu.

I was referring to more of images taken by members of the forum that fit one of the topics rather than work of other artists.


As far as the image posted: Cannot even begin to discuss this image. A piece like this really needs to be scene in person. I can see there is a lot of subtle details in this piece and a lot of different techniques used. This appears to be originally a mixed media piece.

Again though. This piece does not help the majority of people looking to improve their photography. This is something completely different.

 

[DiploStrat]

If this piece attains the realm of 'art', only time will tell. I'll know in about 50 years. The shown image is made up of some initial tests...

Hmmmm. Am I the only one who thought that the feet made the image? I do not mean to be sarcastic, but a lot of the magic of the chemical paper cannot be caught on a computer monitor, but those feet tell such a story!

 

[Lost Canadian]

I was referring to more of images taken by members of the forum that fit one of the topics rather than work of other artists.

My guess would be that others posting their images would simply invite critique at which point this thread ceases to be a discussion of what makes great images and becomes just another photo critiquing thread. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

As far as the image posted: Cannot even begin to discuss this image. This piece does not help the majority of people looking to improve their photography. This is something completely different.

Huh, interesting, as this is exactly the type of visuals I use help me understand good design. The use of complementary colors, the direction of brush stroke (leading line) that she uses to draw the viewers eye to a well defined subject inside a frame of ill defined darker color and pattern. If I can recognize these elements in the real world, and I understand how the use of DoF and different camera techniques aid me in drawing focus, then I will be better prepared and able to create something of interst myself. I guess we all have different approaches to learning however. To each their own.

 

[Lost Canadian]

Over the past few years I have really started to look less and less at photographers and more at painters. I find that since I really wished that I'd been born with the ability to draw and paint, that I want to photograph things like the painters I admire painted their own subjects. I find a lot of inspiration from their treatment of light and perspective.

Glad I'm not alone here Michael. Thanks for the background. I have a similar story of drawing inspiration from others who have worked an area before I. Before heading north last fall I spent a lot of time going over the images of Tom Thompson and The Group of Seven. Many of groups paintings were sourced from the same area I was stomping around so they proved to be a definitive source of inspiration at the time.

For instance, it's paintings like these that provided some inspiration for my own work below.

There is a lot that a photographer can learn from other mediums of art. You just have to be open to it.

 

[cnynrat]

How about chewing on this. Certainly there's plenty of things going on in this image to digest. There, no more theorizing. :elkgrin: I know what I like and why but this bag of wind needs to get to bed, long day tomorrow. So I'll leave it with you guys and simply say adieu.

OK, I'll take a stab at this. Some observations and things I like about this painting purely from a visual level:

First, there is lot going on in this picture - it's busy, busy, busy with small details. It tends to make me want to continue to explore different areas of the painting.

The subject is framed to a certain extent by the tall darker objects on each side, and by the darker area across the bottom. That tends to keep me focused on the main subject area.

The lighter tan area that the people are on stands out from the mainly blue background and creates almost a 3D affect, and also draws the eye in comparison to the background. It seems to float off the rest of the image.

On the right side of the image there is a spot of red leading to a broad tan line, almost looks like a wall or something. This line leads your eye directly to the main subject of the painting. It also helps give the image a feeling of depth.

Finally, I like the balance of the "mass" in the painting. As I see it, there are two "lines" of mass in the painting. One vertical slightly to the left of center, and a second horizontal about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom. Not quite the "rule of thirds", but also not cross hairs in the center either.


Whew! That was quite a bit of right brain exercise for a left brained Engineer

 

[Lost Canadian]

That's pretty damn good I think. Now the only question that needs answering is whether or not you think a repetitive excersise of this type would aid you, and could it help to make you a better photographer?

 

[taco2go]

Cynrat- awesome breakdown.
I like where she's placed the dark tones to convey depth- bottom and sides. Also draws my eyes 'up' the scene.

Trevor thanks for leading such a great discussion, for novices like me. (and all you other photogs)

Definitely agree that there are many approaches to photography, depending on what you want out of it. But there's SO MUCH in paintings and "conventional" art that bleeds over into photo making- aesthetic placement, definition, color schemes, even tone and mood- such as what inspired me when I saw these oil paintings.

Made me finally decide to go for this "up close and personal" perspective.

 

[cnynrat]

That's pretty damn good I think. Now the only question that needs answering is whether or not you think a repetitive excersise of this type would aid you, and could it help to make you a better photographer?

There's no question in my mind that it would help. I think this will be a great learning tool.

 

[photoman]

My guess would be that others posting their images would simply invite critique at which point this thread ceases to be a discussion of what makes great images and becomes just another photo critiquing thread. Perhaps I'm wrong though.


Huh, interesting, as this is exactly the type of visuals I use help me understand good design. The use of complementary colors, the direction of brush stroke (leading line) that she uses to draw the viewers eye to a well defined subject inside a frame of ill defined darker color and pattern. If I can recognize these elements in the real world, and I understand how the use of DoF and different camera techniques aid me in drawing focus, then I will be better prepared and able to create something of interst myself. I guess we all have different approaches to learning however. To each their own.

First of all please do not rearrange my comments to then place an arguement against what you pieced together.

My comments on not being able to discuss the painting has more to do about not being able to see the full scope of the work. I can see some of the details but not enough of them to really break down the work. As I mentioned before that piece appears to be mixed media by combining pieces of photos and painting together. I would like to see a much larger digital version or preferably see the piece in person before commenting on it. In this format, it is like viewing it from across the room rather than 2ft away.

I am starting to see I am quite different than others posting in this thread. I do not spent much time looking at other artists- photographers, painters, or other artists. At least not in a way to influence my own work.

I look at other photographers for processing techniques, controlling light, and locations to visit. I look at paintings, drawings, sculptures, and mixed media much differently than photography. Each one is art but each has its own techniques and styles that are as important to the final piece as the subject itself. In many cases the technique is the most important part of the piece.


I still feel this thread in general is geared to a select few debating the 'rules' and components of an image rather than providing knowledge and examples of application to the majority of members of the forum which are looking to improve the photos they take. I have no issue being apart of those types of discussions but my impression of this thread was it was geared to help the masses improve.

Maybe my impression of the threads goal was misguided.

 

[Michael Slade]

I still feel this thread in general is geared to a select few debating the 'rules' and components of an image rather than providing knowledge and examples of application to the majority of members of the forum which are looking to improve the photos they take. I have no issue being apart of those types of discussions but my impression of this thread was it was geared to help the masses improve.

Maybe my impression of the threads goal was misguided.

I don't think you were misguided, I just think that there are plenty of other areas in the sub-forum that allow people to post their own photos and receive critique...and a lot do. There are threads about cameras, gear, post-processing, locations, etc... What there hasn't been a lot of talk about is the mechanics of composition, theory, art history or any one of dozens of the more esoteric parts of photography.

If folks are ready to talk gear, f-stops, megapixels and HDR, there are places for it. If folks want to post pics that they take and ask for guidance, there are those who are doing a great job at helping them. If folks want to talk Minor White and his Zen philosophy of image making, then we ought to make room for it. I think this thread provides a place for that.

I'm not sure that anyone was debating the rules, I think if there was any debate it was about a teaching philosophy and where the 'rules' fit in, where they should be avoided and should be learned and practiced.

IMO, this thread (and the one I failed to start... ), are a breath of fresh air. I check it about a dozen times daily to see if anyone has added anything new. It is the most refreshing on-line discussion I've had about photography in a LONG time.

I gave four critiques today, and I do it a lot in my teaching, which is why I don't offer much of it here on ExPo. Those threads are in competent hands and a lot of good advice has been offered.

I have been thinking of starting a separate thread about 'critiquing', but that might only appeal to about four or five members. Maybe that is enough to make it worthwhile.

I would invite you to reconsider which discussions you will or will not participate in. I find your input thought provoking and worthwhile.

EDIT: About the painting: I hate it. I don't like any part of it. I can't say much more about it than that. BUT...I know that others do like it and can take things from it, so I tried to leave it alone.

 

[Lost Canadian]

EDIT: About the painting: I hate it. I don't like any part of it. I can't say much more about it than that. BUT...I know that others do like it and can take things from it, so I tried to leave it alone.

Now that is something I would love to hear. I learn a lot more from those with a different take on things than I do from those who agree, and as a respected voice in these parts by all means share.

 

[Lost Canadian]

First of all please do not rearrange my comments to then place an arguement against what you pieced together.

Hey man it's nothing personal. You said

This piece does not help the majority of people looking to improve their photography.

I simply said these types of images have helped me. I ain't twisting anything. They help me. So they may not help you, that's cool. I never said they should or would. It's just something to discuss.

 

[Lost Canadian]

Trevor thanks for leading such a great discussion, for novices like me. (and all you other photogs)

The real thanks goes to all those who contribute. As a microscopic peon in the world of photography myself, I love talks like this. For me, as I'm sure it is for many others, the only care many of us have as far as photography goes is in creating. I like doing it, failing at it, and talking about it in depth. That's it for me, I certainly ain't in it for money or fame, I'll leave that for others. The act of trying to create is certainly one of lifes finer pleasures, no matter how good or bad at it we sometimes are.

Cheers friend.