Lexus GX470 vs. LR3 (overland rig)

[Mr. Monday]

This is my first post here. I am having a very difficult time deciding between an 05 or 06 GX470 with KDSS and a 07 or 08 LR3 both are around 100k miles with full maintenance records and cost $15-16k . Either way I go the rig will be getting the off road/overland treatment with off road wheels, lift, lights, rack, armor, skids, locker, full size spare, and snorkel. Which should bring me up to $20k. This rig will not be a daily driver but I want to be able to take this on overland camping trips across the US and Mexico and maybe even South America without any headaches so it needs to be able to be comfortable for long highway and off road miles. I am used to maintaining older benzes so regular maintenance is something I understand but I would prefer something that I can rely on not to give me a headache when I am out for weeks on end.
GX470 KDSS:
PROS:

• High End Toyota
• Reliability
• Gas Consumption
• Serviceability in Developing Countries
• Handling (agility)
• Its a Rebadged LC Prado

CONS:

• Looks
• Rear Door
• Parts more expensive than Toyota (gizmos (still less than LR))
• Top heavy

Land Rover 3
PROS:

• Looks
• Out of The box ability
• Size
• Comfort
• Cheap to Lift

CONS:

• Gas Consumption
• Reliability
• Maintenance Cost
• Maintenance Interval
• Parts Cost
• Limited Wheel Options

Posting this in the LR section I expect biased responses but I would love to hear from people who can compare the two. Please let me know what you think I should get and why!

 

[DiscoDavis]

As I drive a D3, I am biased towards that. Nothing against toyotas, they are great machines. Even looked at a few when I shopped around for a new car.
Take a look at a helpful post someone started a while ago: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/153747-LR3-LR4-buying-guide-and-maintenance-tips

You list gas consumption as a pro for the lexus but con for the LR3. As far as I can tell they get similar if not the same mileage except the lexus has no issue running 87 vs the 91 octane the Disco3 wants. Honestly this is not huge unless you're really pinching pennies. My D3 gets around 14-15mpg typical, doing 50% on highway, 50% puttering around town, and this is with a few hundred pounds of steel attached to it and a snorkel in the wind.

Out of the box the LR3/Discovery3 is exceptionally capable, and really shines in long distance. We were able to do a cross country trip in only a few days with sporadic off road, very comfortable and eats up the miles. There is a reason the main things people add are protection items and maybe a roof rack. Otherwise they are set up very well. Not really like the thing I see with 4 runners and tacos, where its a lot of suspension changes, wheel, and tire changes. Stock suspension is great and robust. However the weight makes rubber bushings wear out quickly, and the struts can leak after a decade. Coil conversions exist.

Reliability
If you do the work yourself some items are DIY. Parts can be had for a wide range of prices, dealers are $$$ but handy if you NEED a part right then. The Discovery is reliable, I have had some minor (driver caused) issues but otherwise it starts up and goes. Did 500 miles a week for several months and still does long trips weekly. Land Rovers seem to benefit from being used daily. If I let one sit I think it would be ok but keeping an eye on critters and moisture could be an issue (known minor problems with windshield cowl and sunroof drains, easy fixes).

As for handling, try driving a decent example of each. I admit to never having driven either the lexus or toyota model, the LR3 has great handling despite the weight. I did drive 8 ton ambulances for several years however so weight is nothing new.

Wheels
For D3 wheels honestly there is no huge reason to go with something else. The stock 18 inch wheels are excellent, and prices are reasonable for extra wheels. The 19's limit tire choices but there are several available to us that work fine. Tire size is usually limited to around 32" max without minor modification.

It sounds like you might be happier with a Toyota, because the Land Rover is more of always keeping an eye on maintenance status. Some people have never had a problem with them, and some pick one up for a decent price and end up having everything go wrong and end up spending a lot on repair. I could be wrong, maybe you'll fall in love with a Rover

 

[Mr. Monday]

As I drive a D3, I am biased towards that. Nothing against toyotas, they are great machines. Even looked at a few when I shopped around for a new car.
Take a look at a helpful post someone started a while ago

You list gas consumption as a pro for the lexus but con for the LR3. As far as I can tell they get similar if not the same mileage except the lexus has no issue running 87 vs the 91 octane the Disco3 wants. Honestly this is not huge unless you're really pinching pennies. My D3 gets around 14-15mpg typical, doing 50% on highway, 50% puttering around town, and this is with a few hundred pounds of steel attached to it and a snorkel in the wind.

Out of the box the LR3/Discovery3 is exceptionally capable, and really shines in long distance. We were able to do a cross country trip in only a few days with sporadic off road, very comfortable and eats up the miles. There is a reason the main things people add are protection items and maybe a roof rack. Otherwise they are set up very well. Not really like the thing I see with 4 runners and tacos, where its a lot of suspension changes, wheel, and tire changes. Stock suspension is great and robust. However the weight makes rubber bushings wear out quickly, and the struts can leak after a decade. Coil conversions exist.

Reliability
If you do the work yourself some items are DIY. Parts can be had for a wide range of prices, dealers are $$$ but handy if you NEED a part right then. The Discovery is reliable, I have had some minor (driver caused) issues but otherwise it starts up and goes. Did 500 miles a week for several months and still does long trips weekly. Land Rovers seem to benefit from being used daily. If I let one sit I think it would be ok but keeping an eye on critters and moisture could be an issue (known minor problems with windshield cowl and sunroof drains, easy fixes).

As for handling, try driving a decent example of each. I admit to never having driven either the lexus or toyota model, the LR3 has great handling despite the weight. I did drive 8 ton ambulances for several years however so weight is nothing new.

Wheels
For D3 wheels honestly there is no huge reason to go with something else. The stock 18 inch wheels are excellent, and prices are reasonable for extra wheels. The 19's limit tire choices but there are several available to us that work fine. Tire size is usually limited to around 32" max without minor modification.

It sounds like you might be happier with a Toyota, because the Land Rover is more of always keeping an eye on maintenance status. Some people have never had a problem with them, and some pick one up for a decent price and end up having everything go wrong and end up spending a lot on repair. I could be wrong, maybe you'll fall in love with a Rover

They are within 2 mpg of each other, but the GX470 is almost a thousand pounds lighter than the LR3 and I feel more comfortable adding weight to a lighter vehicle, and it should be more agile since its total weight with modifications is lower. You are right, premium or regular is not a big deal to me. What is a big deal to me is being able to keep up with my buddies that have lifted 4runners and Tacomas in more technical areas that require lots of ground clearance and high approach angle with big tires.

I was thinking that 33" would be the minimum size tire for an overland dedicated rig and I would have a lot better tire choices in that range with a 16" or 17" wheel. Can the LR3 brakes fit in a 17" wheel like the GX470 can? I would prefer to keep the stock wheels on for the best mpg and grip when driving around town and then have a separate 33" set with off road tires.

Reliability is by far my largest concern and from what I can gather if the maintenance is up to date the LR3 should not leave me stranded on an expedition which is contrary to what the Toyota fan boys believe. What bothers me more than anything about LR products is recurring maintenance issues like clogged fuel injectors, front tie rod arms, front lower control arms, struts, wheel bearings, prop-shaft bearings, brakes, and differentials but if I can upgrade these parts so that I never have to worry about replacing them again it would be worth it, as you mention, coilovers exist and I would probably like to install them for peace of mind. I just need to budget in about $3k of preventative mechanical items right off the bat with the LR3 whereas the GX470 should need less mechanical fixes from the get go.

From a aesthetic and design perspective I think the LR3 is leagues ahead of the GX470.

 

[Ray_G]

So I'll chime in a few places based off your comments just to add food for thought, mind you this isn't to be overly critical just to tease out the implications of your application:

-Won't be a daily driver; the LR3 won't like this and won't deal well with it. Rovers by and large like to be flogged, if you want something that can sit for a month and hop in it and she'll be happy, a Rover of any ilk probably won't be it. Doesn't mean you will have catastrophic problems from not driving it often, just that you will have a lot of lights on the dash, messages, and likely some degraded performance until the truck deems that you have given her enough attention. (this is because Rover's have personality and a soul)

-If you want to keep up with your friends in 4Runners and Tacos on more technical parts of the trails I'd challenge where you have crossed from overland camping into what I'd consider more four wheeling-I don't view that as a binary world mind you, but it is along a scale and the further you move into more hardcore wheeling the more some of the things you have noted you want become (somewhat) necessary. Of course I don't know what you mean by technical portions of a trail as that has different definition for everyone but if we're talking solid axle converted Tacos running 35's and locked up front/back you may not want to take an LR3 loaded down with a camp kitchen, shower, and snow peak stuff after them.

-LR3 18" wheels pretty much are 'offroad' wheels. A lot of effort and $$$ can get thrown at 17's which does get you a little more sidewall but for 95+% of the users out there the stock wheels are more than adequate, they are superb out of the box (I'd note that LR, for all that the company gets bemoaned, hands a user an extraordinary vehicle off the showroom floor for most wheeling situations-the same cannot be said for Toyota depending on type/model/series (I've owned several, and still own a Taco too)).

-LCAs, bushings, etc: you note that you'd potentially upgrade these and never have to worry about them again. I would challenge you and say you mean until ~30k later. Many of the items that you hear about common issue with on the LR3 are a facet of deliberate wear aspects due to her weight and design, they really can't be upgraded and forgotten about forever. Taking the EAS out is somewhat of an exception to that, though you will lose some capability with the coils-that's better reflected in my own build thread so I'll leave that here).

On the balance I'd also say your budget for mods is likely low.

If I were going to Mexico, and in particular to Central/South America I'd probably stick with Toyota. If I were going to leave it in a garage for weeks at a time, I'd also likely stick with a Toyota. If you want a truck that is remarkable comfortable as a DD, can get to/from the campsite at 80mph in comfort, and is very capable with minimal modification but will require attention to maintenance than consider the LR3.

Best thing to do is drive both, as the last thing I'd leave you with is despite her weight you may find the 3 to be more agile than you think-and more agile then the Prado.
r-
R

 

[ColoDisco]

I pretty much mirror what Ray has said. As a LR tech and enthusiast I get asked this question a lot.

When I bought my 3 i was looking at all the potential overland options. I settled on the 3 because I could get into it cheaper, I am a tech so working on it is no big deal, the comfort level was far superior to the Toyota or the wrangler. That was important as I was planning on being in the vehicle for hours while traveling. The aftermarket was what I wanted, i.e. Front runner, tactical rovers, ARB etc etc.

I have owned my rig for 1 year today and have invested about $2500 including tires and a lot of maintenance items and my own dual battery setup. I bought it for $8200 with a ARB front bumper and I believe voyager sliders. When I'm done doing all the mods (if I'm ever done ) I will still be into it far less than a Toyota or Wrangler.

 

[Colin Hughes]

I have to say that except for my 1995 D1, my LR3 has been the most reliable Rover I've owned (I'm just under 200,000 miles now). That said, there are two weak spots and both have left me stranded. The first is the EAS, which drops when it detects trouble. I understand that if I purchase an IIDtool (which is on my list), I can force the suspension back up in test mode. This will be fine if a bag is not leaking, which was one instance I had it drop to the bumpstops (it was a brand new bag too). Of course, you could convert to coil springs but I do like the adjustable height for towing my trailer. The second is a small section of Canbus wire about 14" long that is more or less exposed at the back of the drivers side wheel well. For southern folks, this is not a problem but up here in Canada road salt gets into the harness and corrodes the wires causing the Christmas Tree dash and a drop to the bump stops. Most times, the truck will not start or run either. I've had this happen at least once in the last couple of winters. I've bought an item LR has released to add additional protection to this area. I will re-wrap the wire harness, add dialectic grease, then slip this sleeve over. Hopefully that will solve this problem. I've looked at Toyota and Lexus models but the level of comfort, the lower cost to get into a LR, and the look of the vehicle keep me from swapping ... and my membership in CAA.

 

[DiscoDavis]

I've had this happen at least once in the last couple of winters. I've bought an item LR has released to add additional protection to this area. I will re-wrap the wire harness, add dialectic grease, then slip this sleeve over. Hopefully that will solve this problem.

Can you expand on this item?

 

[Colin Hughes]

PDF is too big to upload here. But, TSB LTB00644, part #LR059307. If someone wants the TSB PDF, pm me with your email address and I'll forward it to you. I think that harness at the back of my truck currently looks like a junkies veins it's been spliced so many times now.

 

[morrisdl]

I overland my LR3 with a Lexus GX and Rubicon Unlimited at least a couple times a year. Both the Lexus and Wrangler owners drool over the LR3 fold flat seats and no rear wheelwell intrusions for sleeping. I keep up just fine in all terrain and surprisingly have proved the most reliable mechanically of the three.

 

[perkj]

I'll disagree with some of the statements that LR3 don't like to sit in a garage and only be driven on occasion. My 2008 LR3's sole purpose is for exploring and camping and sits in the garage on a battery charger for weeks on end. its only got 52K miles on it and has never had a single issue starting right up with no warning lights/chimes/etc.

 

[Ray_G]

I'll disagree with some of the statements that LR3 don't like to sit in a garage and only be driven on occasion. My 2008 LR3's sole purpose is for exploring and camping and sits in the garage on a battery charger for weeks on end. its only got 52K miles on it and has never had a single issue starting right up with no warning lights/chimes/etc.

My comment to that regard had little to do with the battery; I would hope that anyone letting one sit for a time would hook it up to a trickle charger given how much electricity they consume. Rather I have found that Rovers writ large like to be driven-perhaps you are correct and the LR3 doesn't mind sitting for periods of time but in my experience with complex machines that is rarely true. Climate control def helps, but over time just sitting does bad things to seals and the like.
r-
Ray

 

[MrWesson]

LR3 owner here.

For overland the GX470.

For someone who wants to explore locally, doesn't want a big lift and "play" off road the LR3.

Problem with overland is the traveling part.. Who has the time to spend a week on the road? Most people fall into the second category of local explorer with a mattress in the back.

LR3 is more capable as stock.
LR3 is less reliable. Things will annoy you, if ignored things will break but not leave you stranded(most likely).

The GX accelerates quicker but the LR3 has it beat on ride(tough to beat a lexus but the LR3 is like driving a pillow made of even softer pillows)
You can lift the GX with spring swaps.
The LR3 can manage massive amounts of live using the stock air suspension but inevitably could leave you wanting more.. A spring swap would totally mitigate the point of the vehicle which is simply comfortable and capable. Want 35's? Its a much easier path with a GX.

The GX has a decent traction control system that will get you though most everything a LR3 system will with one huge problem.. It requires massive amount of wheelspin and is slow to respond. I frankly felt like it was half assed and sold the GX short.


They both look the part with a nod to the LR3 but when you remove the stupid side steps from the GX it looks great with some all terrrains. If left on and with stock tires it looks "girly".

I made the same choice a year or so ago and even after taking a GX home for 24 hours decided on the LR3. At the time the GX felt so stagnant and boring when compared to the LR3. I told myself "i'd rather work on an LR3 than own a GX"..

Did I make the right choice? I'm not so sure. I'd certainly be more selective about which LR3 I bought.

 

[perkj]

My comment to that regard had little to do with the battery; I would hope that anyone letting one sit for a time would hook it up to a trickle charger given how much electricity they consume. Rather I have found that Rovers writ large like to be driven-perhaps you are correct and the LR3 doesn't mind sitting for periods of time but in my experience with complex machines that is rarely true. Climate control def helps, but over time just sitting does bad things to seals and the like.
r-
Ray

My comment didn't mean imply that the battery was the issue you were referring to with the LR3 not liking to sit, rather I was just stating how mine sits in the garage when not in use. I do drive my LR3 about every 3 weeks to keep the seals freshly lubricated and to cycle everything. Never had a single issue with my LR3 and alls that has been done to it is normal maintenance.

 

[99Discovery]

We ran into an overlanding party while exploring San Rafeal Swell. Two LR3s a Taco, a Jeep Rubi and a GX. The GX looks sweet with the roof rack and good tires. Made me put it on the "short list". I actually thought it was the RX or whatever the Landcruiser one is at first glance, but it was definitely a bit smaller.

Anywhoo, as the Rover Gods would have it, the alternator on one of the LR3s blew up and they were stuck (because the air suspension ran the battery dead). They sent the 'yota's off to fetch an alternator, with one of them chiming in that "this happens all the time with these guys." Take that as heresey, as it is my opinion that Toyota owners over-state their reliability and Rover owners over-state their unreliability...

In either case, the LR3 owners wouldn't trade for my D2 (I thought this was a good opprotunity to upgrade, I told them we'd trade right now and I'd fix the alternator...no dice. ).


A Rover truly is for someone who enjoys driving AND overlanding. If you don't "love" the Land Rover, you are going to hate putting up with the maintenance. But if you keep up on the maintenance, they are pretty cheap to operate.

It'd be a tough choice for me if I had the $$, but at the end of the day, I think I'd still spend less on the LR3 and use that savings for more overland gear and keeping the air suspension in top shape.

 

[DiscoDavis]

We ran into an overlanding party while exploring San Rafeal Swell. Two LR3s a Taco, a Jeep Rubi and a GX. The GX looks sweet with the roof rack and good tires. Made me put it on the "short list". I actually thought it was the RX or whatever the Landcruiser one is at first glance, but it was definitely a bit smaller.

Anywhoo, as the Rover Gods would have it, the alternator on one of the LR3s blew up and they were stuck (because the air suspension ran the battery dead). They sent the 'yota's off to fetch an alternator, with one of them chiming in that "this happens all the time with these guys." Take that as heresey, as it is my opinion that Toyota owners over-state their reliability and Rover owners over-state their unreliability...

In either case, the LR3 owners wouldn't trade for my D2 (I thought this was a good opprotunity to upgrade, I told them we'd trade right now and I'd fix the alternator...no dice. ).


A Rover truly is for someone who enjoys driving AND overlanding. If you don't "love" the Land Rover, you are going to hate putting up with the maintenance. But if you keep up on the maintenance, they are pretty cheap to operate.

It'd be a tough choice for me if I had the $$, but at the end of the day, I think I'd still spend less on the LR3 and use that savings for more overland gear and keeping the air suspension in top shape.

No Kidding...

Alternators are good on these things but they are placed on one of the lowest part of the engine... no clue what engineer thought that would be a good idea. A good reason why more than a few people put a second battery in :sombrero: