Lift rods vs GAP?
- Thread starter Alex M
- Start date
Tomsquad419
New member
Hi - I have been searching for some info and answers and came across this post.
Id like to lift my LR4 to give it a beefier stance and make it look like it should. I dont play to do any extreme off roading..just hitting the farm trails, light trails, hunting grounds. The vehicle is my DD and will be used on the highway and city mostly.
Id like to run an AT tire and the 285/65/18 appeals to me as it is a 32.5" tire. Will this look super beefy in person? How do you like your 33s? If I run the 285s what kind of fender mods would I be looking at? I was original going to go with the proud rhin bump stop kit but found you can't lower it into Access Mode and would like to have that as an option as I park in a deck for work... it will also be easier to get the parents in the vehicle. The more I read the more I see people recommending the IID tool. Would it be possible to do the fender mods and run a LLAMS or IID tool with 285s? Which would you use? Lastly, can you post to pictures of your vehicle to get an idea of tire size? I would consider a 275/60 or 275/70! Thanks!
For what you plan on driving, I wouldn’t run anything over a 32” tire. I use a combination of rods and IID tool. I put the rods in then used the IID tool to lower it back down to the original ride height. What this does is gives me the proper road manners but when I go off road I can raise the truck using the IID higher without running into the software limits (over 14” of clearance through the center).
No matter the method of lift your problem is in stuffing the tire into the the wheel well on high articulation or if the truck decides to lower to the bump stops. Neither method stops the vehicle from limiting the amount of upward travel the tire can do.
If you want to make the truck look beefier I suggest getting a more aggressive looking tire. I run the Nitto EXO Grappler in a LT265/65r18 it is a cross between a mud and at tire but is 31.77”. If for some reason the truck lowers to the bump stops I can still roll without any modifications to the body.
To the OP (Alex):
What are you trying to accomplish? running bigger tires, off roading, etc. I think that is the important question here and really dictates which direction to go.
To me the biggest issue is what happens when you get a suspension fault which drops the truck (it does happen)... with a software lift or Rod's or Rod's + Software you may be in trouble depending on tire size. which on the street can suck, on the trail even more so.
I think everyone here as covered the basics but something to think about before jumping into it.
My last LR3 ran just Rods with 275 BFG KO2 32" tires and when it drops to the bump stops is effectively immobilized.
My "New" LR3 runs 33" tires, Rods, and the Lucky 8 SYA bump stop kit, and a GAP tool to set the height and can still move when dropped (had to do it once so theres that).
I'm a bit surprised at the resistance to running rods here, it's a simple mechanical solution and when combined with software (Gap or other) works.
If you venturing way out on the trail i would NOT do any of this, i'd go coils...
My 2 cents. YMMV
What are you trying to accomplish? running bigger tires, off roading, etc. I think that is the important question here and really dictates which direction to go.
To me the biggest issue is what happens when you get a suspension fault which drops the truck (it does happen)... with a software lift or Rod's or Rod's + Software you may be in trouble depending on tire size. which on the street can suck, on the trail even more so.
I think everyone here as covered the basics but something to think about before jumping into it.
My last LR3 ran just Rods with 275 BFG KO2 32" tires and when it drops to the bump stops is effectively immobilized.
My "New" LR3 runs 33" tires, Rods, and the Lucky 8 SYA bump stop kit, and a GAP tool to set the height and can still move when dropped (had to do it once so theres that).
I'm a bit surprised at the resistance to running rods here, it's a simple mechanical solution and when combined with software (Gap or other) works.
If you venturing way out on the trail i would NOT do any of this, i'd go coils...
My 2 cents. YMMV
Tomsquad419
New member
Thanks for your help! I definitely plan on running rods and the IID tool but I am not stuck at tire and rim choice. I wanted to run stock LR3 18s however I am now hearing that the LR4 brakes are much larger than the LR3 and the 18s will not fit without spacers and grinding the brakes. I want to keep the stock look so compos are no good and they are $$$. Will wheel spacers run my front end parts out much faster and kill the ride quality? Thanks!
DiscoDavis
Explorer
Zero practical point to changing from Discovery 3 to Discovery 4 brakes, nothing is "much" larger. Heavier cars stop just fine on way worse components.
Don't waste your money. Enjoy the car as is.
sdjp
New member
Hi guys,
Wow. I saw this thread yesterday, but I was on my way out the door at the office and had no time to respond: now Don (zelatore) has done a wonderful job of explaining the differences. Thank you! And thanks to everyone else for the positive feedback!
I have been meaning to write something like this for a while, so here is a quick recap and some points to ponder. I have tried to keep it as objective as possible, but I am from GAP Diagnostic :coffeedrink::
Lifting with the IIDTool
Cons
- as has been mentioned, due to tolerances in the height sensors and pre-programmed limits within the EAS ECU, you may have as much as much as 60mm (approx. 2") of lift available or as little as 30mm (a little more than 1").
Pros
- There are 2 major advantages to the IIDTool on the trail:
1. if you have an intermittent issue that causes the EAS ECU to drop the suspension to the bump stops (hard fault) such as repeated "out of range" faults from a height sensor or a compressor overheat, etc., the fault can be cleared with the IIDTool and normal suspension operation resumed
2. if you have a permanent issue with the air suspension that causes the ECU to drop the suspension, you can control the compressor and valves manually using the Service/Test function and enter the EAS into build mode to stop the ECU from making further changes to the system until it is repaired. The procedure is outlined in our FAQ under "can I manually control my air suspension?"
- The IIDTool has 3 memory slots for individual height settings (so that you can have a street setting, an offroad setting, and a 3rd setting of your choice) as well as a "restore original settings function". Not "on the fly" like Llams, but a height change only requires plugging the IIDTool in, navigating to "my settings 1,2,3", and hitting "enter". Takes less than 30 seconds.
- The IIDTool requires no installation.
Lifting with the Llams or its Italian counterpart Anitas
Cons
- Requires somewhat involved installation
- No EAS diagnostics (fault read/clear)
- Price (the Llams is slightly less expensive than an IIDTool BT, the Anitas slightly more (but it has a nicer set of switches, IMO...). And the IIDTool is a full diagnostic system for LR - see more info below)
Pros
- no height limits imposed by electronics
- "on the fly" adjustability (this is the factor that makes the units an interesting option)
Lifting with Rods
Cons
- Requires installation
- No EAS diagnostics (fault read/clear)
- No adjustability without deinstallation
Pros
- no height limits imposed by electronics
- price (least expensive option to lift a LR with EAS)
Points to ponder...
- The single biggest factor that has put Land Rovers amongst the best 4x4s in modern times is articulation. Off-roading successfully is about keeping all 4 wheels on the ground. The stock suspension has an optimum amount of compression (upward suspension travel) and droop (downward suspension travel) designed in. The more you raise an EAS equipped LR, the less droop you have available. I've not experimented a great deal with the LR3/4 platform, but on my L322 Range Rover, at 50mm lift in off-road height I have next to no droop left. Once you hang a wheel in the air, you are relying on the vehicles electronic aids for traction and the vehicle is inherently more unstable. 35" tires and a 4" EAS lift is only good for showing your cojones in a parking lot. For a larger lift, you need to make major alterations to the suspension.
- The combination of rods and an IIDTool gives you unlimited lift capability (adjustable rods - not Johnson) and full diagnostic capability in roughly the same price category as Anitas or Llams (and I still consider this to be an objective opinion). Of course, in contrast to Anitas or Llams you do not have "on the fly" adjustability. Making height changes require stopping the vehicle and take about 30sec.
Hello, old thread I know but you may have the knowledge I'm looking for concerning articulation. We have 2008 LR3 and are interested to know what the available range (in inches or mm) of the air shock/ struts are with the EAS. This would help us with our setting via GAP iiD to balance up/ down travel as needed for different conditions. Thanks
gatorgrizz27
Well-known member
IIRC, the adjustments made via the GAP tool are on the sensor, not the actual air strut, so a 10mm change ends up being over 25mm at the wheels.
You can drop it all the way to the bumpstops with the GAP tool and take a measurement, and then put it into extended mode by putting a block of 2x4 under the frame when it’s in off road mode and then lowering the vehicle. It will automatically lift itself higher, and you can then push the brake pedal and hold the height switch higher for 5 seconds (might have to be in neutral), and it will raise up to the highest setting.
The bags can drop out even more when a wheel is lifted off the ground, to something like 12”+ between the top of the tire and the wheel well.
I like to run about 1” over stock height for off road use. It allows a softer ride off road without the 35 mph speed limit, and you can still run 2” higher with the off road switch for clearance without overly stressing the CV’s or running into issues with the sensors.
Attachments
Blaise
Well-known member
^ he's right. +25mm is perfect to allow more travel at over 35mph without going too tall.
I've actually measured this with each setting and various GAP adjustments. I even calculated the ratio of adjustment to change in position along the travel of the suspension. From full deflate to full droop and every mode in between.
Long story short: If you setup the truck exactly per factory specs, you're at 50/50 bump/droop. At +25mm, you're at 60/40, which most 4x4 folks will say is the 'most' you should do for a split. I needed a single lift rod to bring my settings down enough to be able to do this as the tolerances on my particular truck happened to require almost completely maxed out adjustment just to get to standard height.
Of course, ask around here and you'll see people running rods + GAP + everything else. You know, cuz taller = better.
I've actually measured this with each setting and various GAP adjustments. I even calculated the ratio of adjustment to change in position along the travel of the suspension. From full deflate to full droop and every mode in between.
Long story short: If you setup the truck exactly per factory specs, you're at 50/50 bump/droop. At +25mm, you're at 60/40, which most 4x4 folks will say is the 'most' you should do for a split. I needed a single lift rod to bring my settings down enough to be able to do this as the tolerances on my particular truck happened to require almost completely maxed out adjustment just to get to standard height.
Of course, ask around here and you'll see people running rods + GAP + everything else. You know, cuz taller = better.
What would you recommend for a D4 running 275/55R20? I have a Gap tool, and I am not against running Johnson rods, but I don’t need 3.5” of lift vs. stock.
I really want to offset when the truck lowers itself at 40km/h. There are many roads I can do 60 km/h on with no problems, but would like the additional height.
Thank you,
Dan
Victory_Overland
Explorer
I think his point is that 25mm (1") is optimal for the suspension and not the tire. My thoughts are that the need for tires larger than 32" on an LR3/4 is degrading the performance of the vehicle as it was designed. You get another 3" or so with the off-road height compared to normal height; recommended for DD and normal trail use to run 25mm over stock (normal height) to maximize suspension potential at higher speeds and only use off-road height for the slower stuff were clearance is required.
Hope that helps!
gatorgrizz27
Well-known member
According to a tire size calculator, which aren’t always accurate, those tires are 0.3” taller than mine and 0.4” wider. I’m running stock height on road, when I get to the dirt I plug in the GAP tool and raise it 1”, then run in normal height until I get it deeper ruts or water crossings.
Keep in mind as you raise it much above that, it starts to ride stiffer and bouncy, which negatively affects the bottoming resistance and clearance gains you get.
I’d also like the ability to override the 35 mph speed lowering, though it’s become much less of an issue after running it as I do. GAP has mentioned that they’ve looked at increasing it, but I haven’t heard more than that. It would also be nice if you could reset the 100 mph high speed lowering down to 65-70 to take advantage of it during normal interstate driving.
The major drawback to having the height adjustable suspension is it really needs to be properly aligned for whatever height you’re going to use on pavement. I had been hoping the changes would be minimal enough that I could just leave it 1” high for normal use and then drop it back to stock height for longer highway trips.
I haven’t tried re-aligning it at 1” higher and then seeing how it drives there or when lowered back to stock height, but it’s unstable with the alignment being off.
Blaise
Well-known member
This is not a drawback, it's a consideration you must make as unlike other cars you can run multiple heights.
Why would you run 1" (or any lift) if you're on pavement? Like you said, align for standard height, then run 1"/25mm boost if you're off pavement and don't want the annoying speed limiter.
