Light Meters

[articulate]

Ok, we've discussed which SLR to get, wide angle lenses, great sunsets, and trail blockage.

1. Does anyone here use a light meter? If so, do you use a spot meter or an ambient meter? Why? Do you use it much?

2. If you don't use a meter, do you just trust the camera...or have you learned to judge the light?

I currently shoot a Canon Rebel T2, and most often with color transparency film like Fuji Provia and Sensia. The built-in meter on this camera, as I've learned after all these years, over-exposes too much for my taste. I believe that built-in meters are also ambient meters....so I'm considering a spot meter.

On a bright sunny day, with ISO 100 fim, aperture set to f/16, my meter will think that a shutter speed of 1/60 is appropriate (but the rule of thumb says as close to 1/100 sec as possible). But that blows out the bright stuff too much, like this:

On a bright day, I've learned to manually set the exposure to the equivalent (when I want a different DOF) of f/16, 1/125 sec with ISO 100 film.
This shot is about 10:30 in the morning, bright sun with no coverage:

I swear that sky is not altered with photoshop. I think the exposure is perfect.

So, fine. Mid day with bright sun I can handle. So, I think I want a meter for when the light is different. Particularly during storms.....

I suppose I don't necessarily want to know which brand of a light meter you have. But your thoughts on using one. Does using one sort of train you by osmosis to read the light with your gut?

Thanks for your input.

Mark

 

[bigreen505]

Ok, we've discussed which SLR to get, wide angle lenses, great sunsets, and trail blockage.

1. Does anyone here use a light meter? If so, do you use a spot meter or an ambient meter? Why? Do you use it much?

Both incident and spot. If I am exposing for the scene I use incident. If I am exposing for my most important detail I use spot. If I have a camera with a built-in meter most of the time I trust it, but not blindly.

2. If you don't use a meter, do you just trust the camera...or have you learned to judge the light?

If I am shooting a film camera with a built in meter I will trust it 90% of the time, but I also know how to use the meter in my cameras. If I picked up another brand of camera I would need to learn how it thinks. For example, I know from experience that Canon meters tend to latch onto the darkest part of a scene and expose for it (therefore blowing your highlights). I also know that their professional grade film cameras underexpose by at least 1/3 and consumer grade cameras overexpose by at least 1/2, based on Canon's assumption about what kind of film is most likely to be loaded in it. That is why most Canon shooters think that Velvia is really a 30 or 40 speed film and Nikon shooters rate it at 50.

Digital is a different story and I expose to the right as far as possible regardless of how I want the final image to look.

I currently shoot a Canon Rebel T2, and most often with color transparency film like Fuji Provia and Sensia. The built-in meter on this camera, as I've learned after all these years, over-exposes too much for my taste. I believe that built-in meters are also ambient meters....so I'm considering a spot meter.

There are basically two types of meters: incident, which measures light falling on an object; and reflected, which measures light reflected off an object. Camera meters are reflected light meters.

If you are looking for a hand-held meter, go try some out. My main meter (Sekonic 308B-II) bothers me in ways I never would have expected. I don't use my spot meter enough to really have an opinion.

 

[Darren]

For digital shooters, there is no reason to own a light meter. Just use the histogram and you're set. Some still carry them, but it continues to baffle me as to why.

For film shooters, a meter is an invaluable tool, especially for boxy cameras without a built-in meter like mine! The Sekonics with a zoom spot meter and incident in one are best, or you want to go cheap, you can just get a dedicated incident meter for those situations and let your camera handle the reflective metering. However, it's still nice to be able to leave the camera tripod mounted with the scene composed while having the fredom to move around metering anywhere within the scene.

 

[articulate]

Wow! Interesting responses. My apologies for using incorrect terminology ^ up there, and thanks for your input like this stuff:

it's still nice to be able to leave the camera tripod mounted with the scene composed while having the fredom to move around metering anywhere within the scene.

...Canon meters tend to latch onto the darkest part of a scene and expose for it (therefore blowing your highlights). I also know that their professional grade film cameras underexpose by at least 1/3 and consumer grade cameras overexpose by at least 1/2, based on Canon's assumption about what kind of film is most likely to be loaded in it.

For digital shooters, there is no reason to own a light meter.

I was curious if a meter starts to help you judge the available light. I often override my camera meter when I see how it wants to set the exposure. Like one of the comments above, it's nearly 100% given that the highlights will get destroyed so I'll switch to fully manual and increase my shutter speed depending on how I'm feeling. I've been pleased with the results, but my choices are entirely based upon this one thought: "I wonder what this will look like".

It looks like a zoom spot and incident in one will help me out a lot. I also experience a weekly delusion in which I want to move along to 4x5 format photography. I'll start with the meter, though.

Thanks for your input, fellas.

Mark

 

[Scenic WonderRunner]

Old Fashioned Light Meter.....

If I can light my campfire with a magnifying glass........it's a Perfect day for taking pictures!

........hehe:elkgrin:


......I said that to say......my new Fuji Finepix S5200 is due here any minute! Yes!


another edit.......it's hailing here in north county San Diego as I type. I bet that would mess with your light meter!


(just playin' with ya Mark......that's for the wilderness runner joke!.....hehe)

 

[bigreen505]

Hey Mark --

You do know you come with a built in meter, right? If you are in the same light as your subject, meter off the palm of your hand and open up a stop. On the money every time.

One area I have to disagree with Darren is about not using a meter with digital. If you are just shooting ambient light you can get away with it since you are just exposing to the right to capture the most raw data possible and adjusting the exposure in your raw processing software (ACR, C1, RSE, SilkyPix, etc.), but if you are using flash and/or balancing flash against ambient light (say you want flash to give you an accurate exposure and have your ambient light 2 stops under, or vice versa) it can be a valuable tool, though not as necessary as when shooting film. It all comes down to style and what you shoot.

 

[photoleif]

I was curious if a meter starts to help you judge the available light.

yes but don't let that lead you to conclude that the overall scene can be handled by one exposure. or, if you have no choice but force it in one exposure, then don't conclude that you can get by without an ND grad. you need to know the acceptable latitude of your medium (e.g., perhaps as low as ±2.5EV for velvia), then get exposure readings off the brightest and dimmest objects in your shot, and figure out an acceptable average. then adjust from that to give weight to one or the other, or to produce a specific effect such as overexposing a desert scene to wash it out a bit. (note that these instructions are largely thrown out by many higher-priced cameras' multi-spot analysis functions. this explanation speaks to what's necessary; whether you do it manually or a sophisticated system takes the guesswork out of it for you, this still has to be done by something or someone.)

I often override my camera meter when I see how it wants to set the exposure.

good! glad to hear it. second-guessing your camera is a fine art ;-) also, the more expensive your film (or the more fleeting your subject) the better at this you'll need to be, hehe.

Like one of the comments above, it's nearly 100% given that the highlights will get destroyed so I'll switch to fully manual and increase my shutter speed depending on how I'm feeling.

if you've got a single-spot meter in your camera (ie, center-weighted), then to have an acceptable shot (on average) you'd need to find an object that approximates an 18% gray, and meter off that, hold the exposure, and shoot the whole scene after recomposing. if you were to get an incident light meter and your light were similar to that which illuminates objects in your scene, then you could use the incident meter's reading to override and get the best shot.

I've been pleased with the results, but my choices are entirely based upon this one thought: "I wonder what this will look like".

a spot-meter tends to minimize that uncertainty. as an example, i was in british columbia last year, and visited a lush rainforest on a drizzly day. you know the kind where you get in your car at noon and have to use the dome light to read a map. that kind of overcast. i metered this shot at f/45 and got an astounding 240 seconds. i simply could not believe it, so second-guessed that and had my wife continue to hold the umbrella while i let 60 seconds elapse. it was still way underexposed, and i had to do some magic with the scanner to salvage the shot (one could argue that it's still hurting... possibly so.) moral of the story: don't second-guess a sekonic.

It looks like a zoom spot and incident in one will help me out a lot. I also experience a weekly delusion in which I want to move along to 4x5 format photography.

if you're ever in the area (i'm in lafayette, co) feel free to look me up and you can try out my sekonic L-508. it has both incident and reflected modes, and zoom for the reflected. my brother (an electrical and optical engineer) and i tested its accuracy, and found its reflected light scores to be ±0.15EV from nominal, and the incident scores similar -- about ±0.20EV from nominal. this is plenty accurate, especially since the outliers in the reflected were mostly in the very low range (2EV).

 

[articulate]

if you're ever in the area (i'm in lafayette, co) feel free to look me up and you can try out my sekonic L-508. it has both incident and reflected modes, and zoom for the reflected. my brother (an electrical and optical engineer) and i tested its accuracy, and found its reflected light scores to be ±0.15EV from nominal, and the incident scores similar -- about ±0.20EV from nominal. this is plenty accurate, especially since the outliers in the reflected were mostly in the very low range (2EV).

WOW!

I apologize that I missed your post after all this time. And I thank you for the superb input.

While I asked the questions, I still haven't even tried a handheld meter of any type.

if you've got a single-spot meter in your camera (ie, center-weighted), then to have an acceptable shot (on average) you'd need to find an object that approximates an 18% gray, and meter off that, hold the exposure, and shoot the whole scene after recomposing. if you were to get an incident light meter and your light were similar to that which illuminates objects in your scene, then you could use the incident meter's reading to override and get the best shot.

This technique works pretty well, but I feel clumsy sometimes. Perhaps the folks at the camera shop will let me try out a few meters this week.

I've also been considering a flash. This, too, is a big ball of wax...holy cow. But I need to do something because I use my wide angle lens a lot and the flash that is on the camera body produces a nasty orb-shaped shadow from the lens.

It turns a nice photo into a nice photo with a big black blob on the edge.

Thanks again for your input. You have an excellent website.

Be well
Mark

 

[HenryJ]

Some things that may be of interest from my Dad:

Rules of thumb

Gray card use

Extended Range Exposure Guide , Exposure Guide Tips , Universal light code , Black Cat decoder

 

[articulate]

Some things that may be of interest from my Dad:

Rules of thumb

Gray card use

Extended Range Exposure Guide , Exposure Guide Tips , Universal light code , Black Cat decoder

That's awesome information. And humorus! My favorite mixture next to lime juice and tequila.

I'm glad you posted those links, thanks.

Mark