Lightweight, 4 season, wet bath 1/2 ton camper clarification & questions.

[panema]

Here are a few reasons why you should try to get a light rig:

1. In our experience tire problems were by far the most important source for technical problems when traveling with our Transit. We had more than 10 flats and 2 blown tires in 145,000 km ( 90,000 miles) in Africa and Latin America. We used BF Goodrich AT. All tire failures were at the rear axle where we have a heavier weight. Because my tires are relatively small (225/75R16) I am close to the load limit and have to maintain a relatively high pressure with over 70 psi on the road. This makes the tires vulnerable. Because of its high curb weight a 1 ton SRW truck with a medium size hardside camper will have the same problem. The weight will be at the limit of the tires load capacity. With our other camper, a F 150 with pop up cabin we never had a tire failure because I am far under the load capacity of the tires and can run them with 40 psi when fully equipped. I run e rated tires (123 load range) specified for the much heavier heavy duty trucks.
2. On bad roads shocks, bearings and other suspension components suffer with every extra pound. With a light vehicles you can have reserves where you need them most (tires, shocks etc.).
3. Fuel economy. With my F 150 and our pop up cabin I have a range of almost 700 miles with the stock tank. I could literally drive from Dawson City to Inuvik on one tank without filling up in between. Try that with a 1 t gaser.
4. If you get stuck it is much more difficult to get out again with a heavy vehicle. A heavy vehicle is much more likely to get stuck on soft ground.

So if I'm hearing your correctly this is a +1 for half ton truck - specifically the F150 with higher payload capacity - and a lightweight camper.

I think I'm totally sold on getting as lightweight camper as possible. Your thoughts on fuel economy are huge for me to hear not only from a range perspective but also making the life style / staying out as affordable as possible.

• Do you feel that there is a non pop top that would work as well with the F150 and not be pushing payload too much?
• Are there any other older, more affordable 1/2 ton trucks with the payload capacity and similar gas mileage as the newer F150's that you know of that could work?

Thanks!

 

[panema]

Well you do have some wants / needs that may conflict with each other. Four season and light do not usually go together. Colder it is designed for and the more insulation and extras that are needed, that adds weight. BUT you may be able to reach a compromise.

CAMPER
What I did was to find an older camper that was good in the cold and update it to what I wanted. Problem with what you are looking for going this route are the heated tanks. Older RV's never went with those and they are not easy to do efficiently on an older rig (ie Ducting heat to them).

TRUCK
I would look at a truck of at least 3/4t capacity to start with. This will save you so many issues later on. Then I would look for a camper to fit it.

MISC
As for being a target yes a TCer is more noticeable then a plain white van but honestly if someone is looking for trouble they will know you are in there.

Here is my TCER and some of the upgrades that I did.

Thanks for pointing out the detail about the heated tanks. From a '4 season' perspective I was focused mainly on insulation and what cabin temp would be. I don't mind things being a little on the colder side, but i really don't want frozen tanks... ; )

Appreciate you pointing that out.

 

[panema]

Truck...definitely go with the 3/4 ton. It’s your biggest purchase and if you don’t get the 3/4 ton you will just wind up wishing you did.

Truck....consider an older Chevy with the 5.7 engine cause you can get parts for that pretty much everywhere.

Camper...maybe you can find an older GoldStar or SixPac or Sahuaro hard sided rig. These generally are narrower (so less side to side sway, better on narrower roads, and lighter), are lighter weight in general than other brands, simple and easy to customize or repair yourself.

Camper....keep it simple to start with to keep it lightweight. Yes, cassette toilet. Yes, homemade shower with minimal or no holding tanks. Keeping it simple with an older camper may mean rebuilding much of the basic electrical and plumbing but then you’ll know how everything works and can more easily fix stuff yourself while on the road down south and away from RV shops. You may also wind up rebuilding much of, or parts of, the framing or roof with an older, cheaper rig but you’ll find them very easy to work on and again know how to make repairs once you’re out on the road.

Camper....keeping it simple, cheap and lighter weight means realizing you’re often going to be a little chilly or a little hot. You’ll quickly get used to being more in sync with the natural weather though and that’s all part of adventure travel. If your rig is too comfy your liable to spent too much time inside it...that’s not camping (to me).

I’m almost 70 and and am spoiled today because I have a great (expensive) fully self contained 4wd camper. But for most of the 50+ years I camped in and explored all of North America, I had an old 4wd pickup and a simple, beat up hardsided camper (no bathroom, no furnace, no a/c, no fridge, etc.). We used an icebox, a cassette toilet, propane and battery lights, and propane camp stove, and bathed in lakes and creeks, campground restrooms, truckstops or inside the rig, standing in a shallow tub using water heated on the stove.

The camper often had to be rebuilt structurally to one extent or the other at the end of each summer’s long travels on so many miles of bad back roads. But it was all we could afford at the time and at least it got us out every summer for months of great exploration (I was a poorly paid teacher for many years but was rich in having 3 months off each summer).

Don’t overthink the camper combo, do keep your budget in mind, and just commit to getting out on the road as soon as you can. I guarantee you that the adventures you make and the memories you create will easily more than compensate you for any deficiencies you might discover with your gear.

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply - great advice.

It may be a situation where I find something and make some updates to it to get it to meet my needs. I don't mind getting my hands dirty a little bit but I'd also like, if possible, to find something that isn't too much of a project that it prevents me from getting out there and getting going. Obviously this needs to be balanced out with budget restrictions so it may be that I need to get more specific or narrowed down to: truck requirements, camper requirements, and real budget so that I can start a search and be a little patient and hopefully find the right deal.

Thank you!

 

[Pacific Northwest yetti]

I have a pop up and love it, it also gets plenty of use in winter and temps bellow freezing. Its not light per say though, but have been extremely happy with it. Heated tanks, underb

FB has a group for Pan American Travelers

PanAmerican Travelers Association

A group open to all travelers along the PanAmerican Route. Feel free to share your experience or provide some hindsight into future expeditions, no matter the medium of transportation.

www.facebook.com

as im sure you are aware, social media has its draw backs, but can also be extremely helpful with real time data. I joined groups, also specific to my truck, my camper, and my fifth wheel( i full time)- those have been great resources. Lots of groups for just truck campers, mfgr specific, pop up specific, etc TCM is a great resource, seriously spend some time going through it.

If i could go back, id get a 1 ton single wheel- more truck less camper is always good. Sounds like you are getting a good idea of a plan,

 

[Regcabguy]

Here are a few reasons why you should try to get a light rig:

1. In our experience tire problems were by far the most important source for technical problems when traveling with our Transit. We had more than 10 flats and 2 blown tires in 145,000 km ( 90,000 miles) in Africa and Latin America. We used BF Goodrich AT. All tire failures were at the rear axle where we have a heavier weight. Because my tires are relatively small (225/75R16) I am close to the load limit and have to maintain a relatively high pressure with over 70 psi on the road. This makes the tires vulnerable. Because of its high curb weight a 1 ton SRW truck with a medium size hardside camper will have the same problem. The weight will be at the limit of the tires load capacity. With our other camper, a F 150 with pop up cabin we never had a tire failure because I am far under the load capacity of the tires and can run them with 40 psi when fully equipped. I run e rated tires (123 load range) specified for the much heavier heavy duty trucks.
2. On bad roads shocks, bearings and other suspension components suffer with every extra pound. With a light vehicles you can have reserves where you need them most (tires, shocks etc.).
3. Fuel economy. With my F 150 and our pop up cabin I have a range of almost 700 miles with the stock tank. I could literally drive from Dawson City to Inuvik on one tank without filling up in between. Try that with a 1 t gaser.
4. If you get stuck it is much more difficult to get out again with a heavy vehicle. A heavy vehicle is much more likely to get stuck on soft ground.

The braking and handling with a 3/4 ton plus truck is leaps and bounds better with a cabover.
Good you upgraded to E-rated tires from the factory supplied p-rated ones.

 

[Bayou Boy]

You will not see a substantial difference in mileage between a half ton and HD truck with the same camper in the bed. Do not buy into the myth that half tons get better mileage than HD trucks with a load in the bed. They just don't.

Also, having carried a popup ATC in an F150 and my current 3500 and carrying a heavy Lance in the 3500, the difference in comfort with the HD truck is substantial. The F150 needed bags and an aftermarket rear sway bar to be comfortable with the light ATC and it was considerably over the payload capacity with just the camper before adding people and gear.

 

[sg1]

There is no perfect rig. Any truck- camper combo is a compromise between your budget and your dreams. We can only give you some facts to help you with the decision.

1. Weight. I have pointed out some reasons why you should aim for lower weight, but there is one absolute limit and that is the load carrying capacity of your tires. A typical LT e-rated truck tire has a load index of 123 at 80 psi and therefore a maximum capacity of 3415 lbs per tire at 80 psi cold. As I had to find out the hard way you should not run a tire close to the limit on very rough roads for a long time. I did and had 2 blown tires. At lower pressure which means lower load the tire is softer and can cushion/absorb impacts by rocks or sharp edges of potholes much better.
2. Roof and sidewalls. Panels used for roofs and sidewalls have either a wood frame with insulation, an aluminum frame with insulation or a frameless composite panel. Insulation consists either of material which doesn´t absorb water (usually closed cell foam) or various other materials which can absorb water (white styrofoam which is open cell, pink batts etc.). If a panel has a wood frame the wood gets wet when humidity gets into the panel and starts to rot. If on top of that the insulation material can absorb water you have a sponge. Humidity usually gets into the panel from inside if the vapor barrier is not perfect or a the seams where the panels join. Over time and especially on bad roads the panels move a little bit and the seams open. This is why a good expedition cabin has wide corner extrusions overlapping the panels where they are joined. If the panels have an aluminum frame the frame obviously can´t rot. But aluminum is a thermal bridge and if the frame is not covered with additional insulation on the inside wall you will have condensation on the wall where it covers the frame. Furthermore the wall and especially the roof need a good vapor barrier at the inside otherwise moist warm air from the interior will get in and condensate inside the panel. Mold will develop. My FWC Hawk didn´t have any vapor barrier and very loosely fitted insulation and I had mold in the roof. Frameless composite panels with closed cell insulation obviously don´t have these problems but they are rarely used in North America. In Europe essentially all newer medium class or high end campers use composite panels.
3. Furniture. There are huge differences in the quality of the furniture. Low quality products use partical board which is stapled together. Doors and drawers are "locked" with magnets or similar useless latches. This is useless on bad roads and will fall apart. In higher end products plywood or even aluminum is used. The furniture is held together and fixed to the wall with screws and modern adhesives. Doors and drawers are really locked with sturdy latches. On my trips in South America I have seen a lot of campers where the furniture was stabilized with 2x4s and the seams of the panels covered with a lot of silicon.
4. Electrical and propane. Watch out for unsafe wiring or propane installation. Especially in used but even in new campers I have seen frightening installations.

 

[wirenut]

Forget the 1/2 ton truck. There really is no advantage, only disadvantage. It will severely limit your choice of camper. It will require lots of mods and still not handle as well as a heavier truck. There isn't really any MPG difference when you factor in the weight and wind resistance of the camper.
I tried for years to find a lightweight camper I could carry on my Dodge 1500. I finally ended up with an 8' pop-up with no bathroom and no waste tanks. I was over the GVWR before I put any gear or any people into the cab. My next camper was an 11' hardside with no basement and no slides. It was over the GVWR of an '07 Chevy 3500 SRW with no fuel in the truck tank and absolutely nothing in the camper. Campers are heavy. The difference in weigh between an 8' non-slide camper and an 11' non-slide is probably only 500 pounds or so. I would skid the 3/4 ton truck and go straight for a 3500 single rear wheel. It will last much longer under the rough treatment of hauling a big load off road.

 

[Buliwyf]

Thanks for sharing this. I've come across the capri's and will go give them a second look based on your thoughts about who they're geared towards as that sounds a little more like my vibe. I will also see if there is much to be found with them on the used market. Appreciate the input!

I think used campers are usually overpriced. I expect a huge bargain, for buying someones rot box, not KBB.

The older Capri's are horribly obsolete as well. They've made big strides forward in the past few years.

 

[redthies]

Are there older trucks and older camper models that work well together that could be prioritized to save some $$$ and retain savings for traveling. I.e. should I just get an older affordable 3/4 ton truck like a 1994 F250 and a $4000 Lance Squire, shut up, and get out there?

Short answer: Yes!

Long answer: I’m going to sound like most of the other guys. Get as much truck as you can. A 92-97 era F350 is a great choice. Diesel would be better than gas if you can find a good one. Pop ups are way nicer campers from a “getting there” perspective, but hardside are better after you arrive. Where do you intend to use your camper? If it’s for skiing in Colorado, hardside will be your friend. If it’s the Pan Am, I’d go check out some pop ups. Hallmark builds a great pop up. They’ve been around a long time, so finding an older one is possible. Look for Ute or Cuchara models for a bath.