Limited Slip Faceoff: Detroit TrueTrac vs. ARB Air Locker

[drodio]

RE: trail pics above --

@locrwin, BTW this is exactly the type of terrain I will be taking my truck + pop-up camper on. A rough, possibly steep trail to get to a great camping spot or a remote beach. Thanks for sharing those pics.

It sounds like the locker is what made this trail easy for you, yes? Do you think you would've been able to get up the trail in your pics if you just had an ARB locker on the rear axle, and had the front completely open?

 

[Buliwyf]

Yeah I can agree with all that.

A manual trans and a Detroit Locker is a pain. But Fords 4r100 and 5r110 slushboxes make that a non-issue. With that big truck, a Detroit shouldn't be any harder to drive in snow than a tight set LSD. Mines been fine so far. (AT tires)

Everytime I used to go wheeling I would spin a rear tire a couple times climbing, and especially climbing and turning. Now with a rear locker everything is cake. I try to use 2wd as often as I can and save 4wd for straight shots or as needed. I'm turning and wiggleing the truck in tight spots often. So that's why I go for the Detroit Locker.
Unless you need to regear, then just try a rear locker, a rear locker is all you need on a trail like that. If you plan on regearing, do both and save some money on labor.

Your plan of rear ARB, then winch, then a front diff if needed (it won't be), seems like a solid plan. Also look at Warns Xfer case and transmission skid plates. Those can be handy for situations where your breaking over a hill top etc. etc. Getting high centered is my only legit concern right now. IME the engine, radiator, and fuel tank plates are overkill for the Ford.

 

[locrwln]

RE: trail pics above --

@locrwin, BTW this is exactly the type of terrain I will be taking my truck + pop-up camper on. A rough, possibly steep trail to get to a great camping spot or a remote beach. Thanks for sharing those pics.

It sounds like the locker is what made this trail easy for you, yes? Do you think you would've been able to get up the trail in your pics if you just had an ARB locker on the rear axle, and had the front completely open?

Thank you, it seems like ours uses are very similar. And yes a rear ARB would have walked up that road. As much negativity as there is regarding Gov-locs, mine works exactly like it is supposed to. Unfortunately, it does take some rotation of the spinning tire (~200rpm) before it "locks," but when it does, it works. I have had the truck stuck in a snow drift (pre front locker) and the rear tires would lock up. The stock LSD in my '02 F350 (bought new) was all but worthless after about 5k of use, if that. Ford sets them up waaaay too light and unless you want to shim them up, they are not worth the time.

The reason I went with the gov-loc rear/e-locker front is that ARB is the only maker of a selectable locker for the AAM 11.5. Again, the gov-loc has impressed me, so I decided that the front was the place for me. Below is my post from the "Obese" thread. As you can see, both empty and loaded, the front is still considerably heavier than the rear. So based on my use and particular truck, the front locker will be doing most of the work in a bad situation.

I have a friend with scales and decided to get the "empty" weight first.

Left front: 2350
Right front: 2300
Left Rear: 1450
Right Rear: 1425

Total: 7525lbs

That is with a full tank of fuel and no one sitting in it. I was pretty pleased with the side to side balance considering the 52 gallon fuel tank that sits on the driver's side.

My friend was out of town with family, so I decided to just stop by the local truck stop and use their CAT scale.

Obviously I didn't get the individual corner weigts, but I did get the front and back weights.

Front: 4920lbs
Rear: 4150

Total: 9070 lbs



Now that was with 1/2 tank of fuel, just me sitting in it and some of our supplies used up. I would put the total fully loaded right at the GVWR of the truck, which is 9200lbs. That means based on a gross weight of 9200lbs, I am adding roughly 1675lbs of weight when loaded up for a trip.

Jack

 

[crawler#976]

You broke a detriot straight out? What application? I have seen a few Detroit lockers destroy themselves but it is usually from a violent axle break causing the dog teeth to sheer off from the wind up in the axle. I don't think I have ever seen a detroit fail before an axle.....

It was a Detroit for a Toyota 8" front diff. It failed at the Hammers, and the Longfield Birfs and axle shafts were fine. Even the hubs were OK. That is not "normal" use by any description. It was an expensive trip, and thankfully, I was able to get back to camp and tow it home from the '04 Tin Benders Jambo.

For reference http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=57419&d=1305739664 is typical of what we do with our truck and camper.

 

[seanpistol]

Well... I've been debating a similar scenario for getting stuck in very deep snow when the open diffs are making the wrong wheels spin, but I am a fan of the open diffs for driving on snowpacked curvy roads. Sounds like the rear ARB selectable and open front is the way to go.

 

[Buliwyf]

Well... I've been debating a similar scenario for getting stuck in very deep snow when the open diffs are making the wrong wheels spin, but I am a fan of the open diffs for driving on snowpacked curvy roads. Sounds like the rear ARB selectable and open front is the way to go.

For a Tundra? Yes, Arb rear, open or Truetrac front is the way to go.

 

[Abitibi]

Just finished reading all 4 pages, very interesting point of views... Thanks!

I'm in the process of building another expedition rig, this time based on a 2002 E350 ambulance body (7.3L) with auto tranny. Just last weekend I bought a used set of Dana60 front/rear axles with 4.10:1 gears out of a '02 F350 srw so i could convert the van to 4x4 with 6" lift and 35" tires. So for me it makes sense to spend a bit more upfront now while the axles need to be "serviced" and install either a locker or LSD on them. No point waiting for them to be mounted on the truck, easier to get it done now.

This truck will be as much of a DD as a travel vehicle and a trail rig. No rock crawling but I like to put scratches on the body and make good use of it. No heavy towing, usually nothing more than 3000lbs.

Buliwyf, seems like you're familiar with the 350's and I appreciate your experience but I'm curious why you think the Detroit Truetrac is useless on the rear of a F350? And also why you think the Eaton E-Locker is garbage?

I live near Vancouver BC and will often drive in snow. The Detroit locker sounds like a recipe for disaster on our windy winter roads so I was considering the Truetrac at the rear and the E-locker at the front. Is this such a bad combination?

Cheers,
Mr. D

 

[NothingClever]

My configuration is shaping up to be:

Open diff up front
Manual transmission
Manual transfer case
High quality tires for road & trail
ARB locker in the rear
High quality chains front and rear

That should be plenty for me to get where I need to go. I'll have a comfortable camper on the back so I don't think I'll ever try to tackle terrain where I need a front locker to help pull me up an obstacle. I just want to get to nice camp spots on any road in any season. Below are the conditions I anticipate encountering:

1) crowned, dirt roads in a rainy season
2) unmaintained dirt roads
3) unplowed, snow-covered roads
4) established 4x4 trails (like Blues or mild Reds according to the http://www.funtreks.com/trail-ratings/trail-ratings definition)

The locker for me is to get out of the ditch if I slide off the crown or to break through a drift on the snow-covered roads or to get past a short, technical section on the 4x4 trails. The locker won't be for me to push the limits.

I'm middle-aged....mild is wild.

 

[Buliwyf]

Just finished reading all 4 pages, very interesting point of views... Thanks!

I'm in the process of building another expedition rig, this time based on a 2002 E350 ambulance body (7.3L) with auto tranny. Just last weekend I bought a used set of Dana60 front/rear axles with 4.10:1 gears out of a '02 F350 srw so i could convert the van to 4x4 with 6" lift and 35" tires. So for me it makes sense to spend a bit more upfront now while the axles need to be "serviced" and install either a locker or LSD on them. No point waiting for them to be mounted on the truck, easier to get it done now.

This truck will be as much of a DD as a travel vehicle and a trail rig. No rock crawling but I like to put scratches on the body and make good use of it. No heavy towing, usually nothing more than 3000lbs.

Buliwyf, seems like you're familiar with the 350's and I appreciate your experience but I'm curious why you think the Detroit Truetrac is useless on the rear of a F350? And also why you think the Eaton E-Locker is garbage?

I live near Vancouver BC and will often drive in snow. The Detroit locker sounds like a recipe for disaster on our windy winter roads so I was considering the Truetrac at the rear and the E-locker at the front. Is this such a bad combination?

Cheers,
Mr. D

The E lockers (that I saw) for the Dana 60 application just plain did not work. Unreliable junk. In certain other axles they are fine. The Dana 60 required a different design, pretty sure it was an epic failure.

The rear axle you sourced isn't a Dana 60, it's better. Most likely a 10.25". Make sure your front axle says 60 on it. If it says 50, it's still a fine axle. You may want to consider 4.30 gears, but 4.10 is fine for a diesel.

The DetroitAutolocker in a top heavy, floppy E350 ambulance in Canada may be risky. ARB/ARB is your best bet. But the Detroit may still be OK in the rear if you go really stiff with your suspension roll settings and are careful. In this case,I'd likely go ARB rear, and open or ARB front (if you can swing that cash). Unless you need a locker very often like I do, the ARB is the better choice for tons of winter driving. Still, in a big heavy truck, as long as you are careful, and get used to when the locker holds on, and how much throttle will allow it to ratchet around slick turns, it's not really a big deal.

In Ohio a Detroit or Yukon locker in the rear is easy breezy on ice. Anywhere the detroit gets annoying, I just slow down. But in Canada or Colorado mountains, that may be a different story.

The Truetrac is way grippier in little SUV's. The larger the truck, the less they seem to lock up. In the Sterling 10.25"/10.5" they minus well be a stock diff. Don't waste your time with the Truetrac in the rear. Up front, it's a good option depending on your useage.

 

[Abitibi]

Thanks!

I was spending the weekend in Seattle and ended up buying a Detroit Locker for the rear and a Eaton E-locker for the front. I guess I'll be the guinny pig for the E-locker... I don't expect using it daily and when I will it's gonna be slow driving anyway. I'll report if it ends up being a waste of money or if it actually works good. Anyhow, the bill came at just over $1400 for both units which is pretty good! ARB are hit and miss, love/hate them but at the premium they charge I can't afford to take the chance, time will tell if I made the right choice!

That ambulance will end up heavy enough at the rear and that's why I went with the Locker over the Truetrac. And from what I read here... As for axles, the front is a Dana60 and the rear is a 10.5", they were a matching set out of a 2002 F350 SRW with 4.10:1 gears which I think will be perfect on 35's on that slow 7.3...

Cheers!
Mr. D

 

[Buliwyf]

Awesome!

Let us know how you like the Detroit locker. I love mine. But snow in Ohio is much different than snow where you're at. Any feed back on that is very valuable. Not much good info on the net about real world 1st hand Detroit snow use. Plenty of plow trucks run them in my area. Especially a top heavier E350 abulance type truck that's like a Truck with a camper on it's back, is going too be priceless info. Let us know.

For me, once I got used to it, and how much throttle it deosn't like. It was cake to use.

Hopefully your e locker works better than ours. I'd flip it on as often as possible in the winter to keep it smooth. Even if it's just a few seconds. Change the diff oil every year to keep water out, it's cheap insurance.

 

[Abitibi]

What were the issues with the E-locker and was it on the earlier version? From what I've read elsewhere most seem to love them.

 

[LovinPSDs]

Bump... Anyone have good results??? I know this is really old, but i'm looking to outfit my 2008 F350 in a similar fashion!

I wish OX made a locker for a 10.5"...

 

[savagefan]

HI, I was reading this thread and signed up to find out how it worked for you Abitibi. Much great info from all who posted here too thanx looks like a great 'site.

 

[Kytann]

The Front autolocker will make snowy street use tough.

I know I am replying to an old thread, but it bugs me when I see people saying this.

For years here in Minnesota I ran an auto-locker (an Aussie Locker to be specific) in the front diff and an open for the rear diff. That combination was amazing, and stable and totally livable. It had to be, it was mine and my wifes daily driver. Yes I let my wife drive it in winter, and she never had a problem.
A front auto- locker is way more friendly on the street than a rear auto-locker. And way more friendly than most people would suspect.
I want another one in my current truck someday.