Limited Slip Faceoff: Detroit TrueTrac vs. ARB Air Locker

[v_man]

Kytann , were you driving around Minnesota in 4wd with your locker up front? Your post is unclear .

Of course a locker up front is indiscernible if your in 2wd ...

How was the turning when you were in 4wd ? I know that when my front ARB is engaged , it takes about 5x as much input /force on the steering wheel to get the wheels to do anything ...

 

[Buliwyf]

Weird. That's the first good experience of a front locker in snow that I've heard off. Especially the Aussie locker! Lunch box lockers don't unlock as easy, or at all, under power as a Detroit or Yukon will. More info needed. Truck? tires? in 4wd?
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Might have been different with an autolocker in the rear. I'd love to try a Detroit Locker front and rear, but my experience with smaller trucks like that in snow is causing me to avoid that.
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I spent most of the winters weekends in 4wd at night.

 

[LR Max]

All my jeep buddies used to run lunchbox lockers in their front Dana 30 axles. They did this because the front axle was stronger than the rear.

They never had a problem. Always worked great. On road in 2WD, the front was pretty much freewheel so you never even noticed it (even though they didn't have hubs). Off road they never had any trouble turning and the traction was amazing. My rover has a rear locker and my rear axle will push the truck. With a front locker, it'll pull the truck.

That said, this was for a 33" tire and below application on a Jeep TJ. They did have some steering issues but this was related more to running larger tires than the front locker. Also here in the south, everything is covered in mud so you need all the traction you can get.

I plan on getting a front locker one day (money issue and I need a whole front axle rebuild, more of an issue of being an old truck) but I plan on going with a detroit. They just work.

 

[kojackJKU]

I think im putting true tracs in all my rigs, f/r in my z71 suburban, f/r in my JK unlimited and rear in my 2wd f250. Why, beceuase I don't need a full locker, but want some additional traction the tt's will provide. im not rock crawling, so for trails the true tracs will work fine.

 

[Kytann]

Weird. That's the first good experience of a front locker in snow that I've heard off. Especially the Aussie locker! Lunch box lockers don't unlock as easy, or at all, under power as a Detroit or Yukon will. More info needed. Truck? tires? in 4wd?
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Might have been different with an autolocker in the rear. I'd love to try a Detroit Locker front and rear, but my experience with smaller trucks like that in snow is causing me to avoid that.
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I spent most of the winters weekends in 4wd at night.

Yes. When there was snow and ice I would use my 4wd (which would obviously also use the front locker).

Turning when on the gas felt like the power was pulling it into the turn. So I applied pressure on the steering wheel to straighten it. But only very light pressure. It made almost no difference in the steering effort.

 

[Kytann]

Weird. That's the first good experience of a front locker in snow that I've heard off. Especially the Aussie locker! Lunch box lockers don't unlock as easy, or at all, under power as a Detroit or Yukon will. More info needed. Truck? tires? in 4wd?
-
Might have been different with an autolocker in the rear. I'd love to try a Detroit Locker front and rear, but my experience with smaller trucks like that in snow is causing me to avoid that.
-
I spent most of the winters weekends in 4wd at night.

1996 Toyota Tacoma V6 5-speed, Regular Cab Standard Bed. ARB bumper on the front, and a Winch with steel cable. Stock springs on upgraded OME shocks (Actually I hated those shocks, but that is a discussion for another thread). The front was actually starting to sag a little form the extra weight up front. Roughly 3900 lbs with me in the truck. So 3730 pounds empty. Relatively lightweight and short wheelbase. Also very nose heavy.

Aussie locker in the front. Open diff in the rear. Winter time I ran 31x10.50 Snow tires, the light truck equivalent to the Blizzak at the time. Summer I ran BFG ATKO in 32x11.50.

With so little weight in back, you can bet I used 4WD often in winter.

An auto-locker definitely behaves differently in the front versus the rear of a vehicle. I think it has to do with the different arcs that the front and back axle travel when turning that cause this.
Of course in a locker, the arc is defined by the inside wheel.
And the arc of the inside front wheel is closer to the arc of the average rear wheels
vs in a rear locker the average of the front wheels coupled to the inside rear wheel is a farther distance, creating more bind.
Just a thought anyway.

I originally had worries about it being able to disengage on snowy conditions, but never seemed to have a problem. It could be that the Aussie locker has some very ramped engagement teeth. So much so that I wasn't sure it would work at first. They also specify in the instructions some specific clearances inside of the diff for proper operation. I know my measurements were pretty close to the middle of the range they suggested. This measurement ensured one set of teeth could disengage, but only one set. Also, the springs were pretty weak. But that's fine, as the force for locking the wheels together comes from the cross shaft, not the springs.

It's the only auto-locker I have tried. I have driven my family's 4Runner with the rear e-locker. That one behaved very differently when locked up. Even though the 4runner and Tacoma were such similar platforms. On dirt and off-road that is. I never tried engaging the rear locker in snow on someone else's truck *lol*

 

[cj7ox]

Lot of good info here. I'll add my $0.02 on the subject, as I haven't seen it posted yet (I apologize if I missed it). "Lunchbox" lockers/LSDs in the front have one particular disadvantage in my book. If you happen to break a rear driveshaft/U-joint/axle, with a 4wd vehicle you can drop the rear driveshaft and limp home in "front wheel drive" (Tcase in 4wd high). This works well, and the truck will drive like stock with an open front. With a Detroit and some LSDs, the drive gets scary as hell in turns. That's why I'm a strong advocate of selectable lockers in the front (my preference is the OX locker, tough as hell!). FWIW

 

[HRT Offroad]

Auburn is also another good choice in a Ford!

 

[Kytann]

Lot of good info here. I'll add my $0.02 on the subject, as I haven't seen it posted yet (I apologize if I missed it). "Lunchbox" lockers/LSDs in the front have one particular disadvantage in my book. If you happen to break a rear driveshaft/U-joint/axle, with a 4wd vehicle you can drop the rear driveshaft and limp home in "front wheel drive" (Tcase in 4wd high). This works well, and the truck will drive like stock with an open front. With a Detroit and some LSDs, the drive gets scary as hell in turns. That's why I'm a strong advocate of selectable lockers in the front (my preference is the OX locker, tough as hell!). FWIW

Meh. That only works if the driveshaft isn't a slip-yoke design (Am I using that word right?)
Most modern vehicles are of the design where the driveshaft is also the back oil seal for the transfer case, so if you remove the driveshaft, all of your oil leaks out.
And you can't just disassemble it at the U-joint because the slip-joint design means there isn't a c-clip holding it in. Just the distance from the axle to the transfer case.

Slip-yoke I think it's called, actually...

 

[Buliwyf]

Yes, on some cheaper 4x4's the drive shafts slip yoke is moved to the end of the shaft and it slides in and out on a spline inside the tail end of the transfer case. A little Permatex and some carboard and e tape will seal up the hole well enough to get home sometimes. It's wise to invest in a Slip Yoke Eliminator kit and a regular driveshaft for better shaft angles, and IME, less force on the Xfer case housing.
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That' one of the reasons I skipped Dodge trucks when I was looking for my ride. I hate slip yokes that are inside the xfer case like on Jeep Wranglers. My Fords yoke is in the center of the driveshaft where it should be. Odd, since Dodge and Ford use the same Xfer case, just Dodge has to screw up the details, as usual.

 

[Kytann]

Yes, on some cheaper 4x4's the drive shafts slip yoke is moved to the end of the shaft and it slides in and out on a spline inside the tail end of the transfer case. A little Permatex and some carboard and e tape will seal up the hole well enough to get home sometimes. It's wise to invest in a Slip Yoke Eliminator kit and a regular driveshaft for better shaft angles, and IME, less force on the Xfer case housing.
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That' one of the reasons I skipped Dodge trucks when I was looking for my ride. I hate slip yokes that are inside the xfer case like on Jeep Wranglers. My Fords yoke is in the center of the driveshaft where it should be. Odd, since Dodge and Ford use the same Xfer case, just Dodge has to screw up the details, as usual.

I'm pretty sure my 'Yota was set up with a sip-yoke.

Yeah, but the Dodges are the prettiest. I really wanted one of the Dodges, but just didn't trust their engineering to last.
So I've got an F150 now. Haven't ever checked the transfer case to see if its a slip-yoke or not.

Planning on an off-road vacation this summer. Debating with myself if I want to spend the money and install a lunchbox locker in the front 8.8in differential on the F150. With the light-duty off-roading I do nowadays it may not be needed, and it's still a good chunk of money. The Raptor guys are breaking their front CVs with some regularity, and those are beefier than in my stock F150. But I doubt I'd be able to do anything to break that back 9.75 axle.

 

[Buliwyf]

I'd put a Truetrac in the front of an F150. I'm not familiar enough with the newer F150 rear axle to suggest there.
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I think Ox makes a selectable locker for the F150 front.

 

[DetroitDarin]

Planning on an off-road vacation this summer. Debating with myself if I want to spend the money and install a lunchbox locker in the front 8.8in differential on the F150. With the light-duty off-roading I do nowadays it may not be needed, and it's still a good chunk of money. The Raptor guys are breaking their front CVs with some regularity, and those are beefier than in my stock F150. But I doubt I'd be able to do anything to break that back 9.75 axle.

My mom went to buy a truck a few years ago - I asked if she'd get 4wd. She said "No, I'd never use it!"

That's the truth - nobody ever needs anything until they NEED it. When they need it, it can be a lifesaver.

Do you know of the CV's in the raptor swap into the Non Raptor? (And maybe into MY truck?? )

 

[Kytann]

I'd put a Truetrac in the front of an F150. I'm not familiar enough with the newer F150 rear axle to suggest there.
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I think Ox makes a selectable locker for the F150 front.

Well, I see Ford 8.8 28 and 31 spline applications, so I would be covered for the front axle. Disappointingly there is no rear Ford axle applications at this time. In fact, not much is offered because the factory offers an e-locker. However I ended up not getting one in my truck, unfortunately.

I'm probably going to stay away from a selectable locker in the front for the time being.

Right now the plan is to go with a True-Trac for the rear axle.

Then decide with either

• a matching True-Trac for the front (expensive installation)
• a lunchbox locker for the front (cheaper)
• just rely on the factory e-LSD (cheapest).

Honestly it's probably going to be the latter, because money is getting short.

 

[Kytann]

My mom went to buy a truck a few years ago - I asked if she'd get 4wd. She said "No, I'd never use it!"

That's the truth - nobody ever needs anything until they NEED it. When they need it, it can be a lifesaver.

Do you know of the CV's in the raptor swap into the Non Raptor? (And maybe into MY truck?? )

Short answer is no.

last year I did a bunch of research on how to graft the Raptor suspension onto my F150. It's relatively inexpensive and everything is really just bolt-together, for suspension that us.

The Raptor CV axles are 31-spline. Regular up to 2011 is 28-spline. There is some debate on whether or not the 2011 and up F150 also changed to 31-spline at the same time, with conflicting information.
But your 2006 is for sure 28-spline.

Raptor CV Axles are also longer. 3 or 3.5 inches longer.
Which means you would also need the Raptor Upper and Lower Control Arms, and then a set of Raptor Tie-Rods (which may need to be modified)
Finally, the shocks themselves are over 4 inches longer.

Then if you do all of that, you'll have to cut up your fenders (or buy fiberglass ones) to fit your tires which now stick out 3.5 extra inches per side.

So it's do-able, but requires quite a few other parts.

There might be more differences since yours is a 2006 Expedition.