Living inside vs beside

[motas]

Hey. As I continually redesign my camper I am wondering whether living beside the vehicle instead of inside it would work well. To clarify what I mean Inside living essentially everything is done inside, eg cooking, eating, changing, cleaning and of course sleeping. By living beside the vehicle only sleeping would be done inside, the rest such as cooking, eating etc would all slide out of the vehicle and be covered only by an awning with optional walls.

So far I've come up with the following lists.

The advantages to living inside would be:
Quick to setup everything
Warmer
No bugs
No water
Privacy
No wind

Disadvantages:
More expensive/complicated to build
Very limited space
Heavier
Less room for sleeping

Advantages to living beside:
Cheap easy and light to build
Plenty of room to move around
Can easily be modular to allow carrying of motorbikes etc on short trips with less luxuries
Plenty of room for sleeping

Disadvantages to living beside:
Longer to set up, especially with walls for poor weather
Poor protection from weather
Bugs
Wind


I realize the climate and use dictate heavily on this decision, though I am interested to hear experience/thoughts from anywhere. My uses however are all over Australia. So the climate ranges quite a bit and I plan to travel through most of them. The north is tropical, central is desert, and the south (where I'm from) is a lot colder and wetter. The two major uses I have for this is a tow rig for an off road race Jeep that we race mostly in the desert areas (hot in the day, cold at night but not often raining) which is short stays 1-3 nights at a caravan park or at the track. I will also be using this as my only 4wd so will be taking it on trips in the local bush (ranging from cold and wet to hot and dry with plenty of bugs) for 1-7 nights normally. I also hope to use it on longer trips between 1-4 weeks long to different parts of Australia but chances are like a lot of people here they will be few and far between.

The vehicle is an old Jeep ute (truck) with approx 2.5 x 1.8 x 1.2m (7 foot long, approx height and with of a cj body plus a little) available to build the camper, without a cabover which I dont want. It will mostly be used with 1 person and a dog or two (who generally sleep outside) but am building it to suit 2 people in case my situation changes.

So does anyone have any experience or advice on the matter?
Thanks.

 

[Maninga]

I'm in favour of a hybrid approach. Without using a cab over, I'd be looking at something like a wedgetail camper. Roughly in line with the roof, well made, good use of storage and access to both internal and external storage/space for outside kitchen. Stay outside most of the time, when it's crappy you're able to stay in.

 

[motas]

For those interested the Wedgetail is here and costs from $45,000 AUD (ouch).
That is actually a really good design I'd completely forgotten about. I might have to steal some ideas from it.
Not entirely relevant to the topic but I do not like how the baskets just sit in the rails and how everything is pretty much left to float around. Ok for on the road but once I hit the tracks that stove and everything else is just going to bounce around inside.

Back on topic here are two designs I really like showing what I mean:

Soenkes I'm sure you've all seen. The kitchen bed and dinette are all inside in a very small camper, if its bad weather everything can be done inside. Its also quick and easy to setup and use. But I hate to think what it cost to build and it is a very small space.

I couldnt find the one I wanted, the one I wanted was a custom aluminium tray on the back of i think a tacoma with a roof top tented mounted on a cage above it. The storage on the tray only filled half the gap under the RTT and could be used as a bench. Anyway this brute is the idea with a rtt mounted on a cage with storage underneath.

 

[haven]

I think as the trip duration increases, the scale tips in the direction of inside living. Permanent living quarters add comfort, convenience, security and predictability (stuff stays in the same place, the way you use it remains the same). The longer you are away from home, the more value you place on these attributes.

Australian designers have a great history of producing ingenious camping vehicles that open up for use, then fold closed for travel. One example I admire is Highrise Offroad. The company website looks to be caught in suspended animation, which doesn't bode well for the long term success of the company. But the photos and floor plan provide an idea of how this hard sided product works
http://www.highrise.com.au/

 

[motas]

Where do you think the scale tips though?
I have looked at the highrise before and thought it was awesome but I dont like the idea of the bed being open while setting it up. Say if its windy and pouring with rain it may only be a minute that its open to the weather but it will get wet. Thats where I think canvas has an advantage of being flexible and though there are downsides we dont not get the extreme weather some do.
The other thing is the more things that flip fold and slide out the more has to be setup. Perfect if your staying a few days. not so perfect if its a quick overnight stop. Which is kind of where im undecided.

 

[Maninga]

A lot depends on your personal comfort level and where you're going. I've done 6 week trips quite happily living beside, other 3 week trips I've wanted live inside due to cold/wet weather. Ease of setup also plays a big part I find.

We're planning on heading off for about 2 years, so ability to live inside was a must for us. Regularity of trips I think makes a difference too, prior to our long trip we expect to spend as many weekends and holidays using the camper as possible. Being able to keep it permanently packed, able to setup within a couple of minutes, tear down in the same timeframe. Chairs, an awning and slide out kitchen outside for when it's nice, seating, cooking, bed and bathroom inside when it's not.

Where in Aus are you?

 

[motas]

I'm in west gippsland/east melbourne. Most of my trips are around that area (noojee, walhalla, dargo etc) short and hard so it needs to be tough. The other trips ill mainly be doing is to off road races normally in the outback somewhere (sea lake, griffith etc) which again are fairly short only 1-3 nights and towing hence why a trailer is not an option. In the future though I hope to do some longer trips to the cape, simpson, tasmania etc probably up to a month or so.
This car is not my daily driver either so it will remain packed and setup in the shed until i need it. And between 4wding, camping and racing I plan to use it quite often.

Do you have any pictures of your setup?
Cheers.

 

[dlh62c]

Snip... By living beside the vehicle only sleeping would be done inside, the rest such as cooking, eating etc would all slide out of the vehicle and be covered only by an awning with optional walls....Snip

My definition of 'Living Beside' includes sleeping outside the vehicle. If I were to only sleep inside the vehicle, I'd try to design it such that I didn't have to unload or rearrange the inside when I needed to hit the sack.

On a long trip, there are going to be days when you just don't want to deal with all the stuff. You'll want to find a nice quiet place, climb in and shut the door to the world.

If your traveling as a group, try to keep the mode of travel the same for everybody. If everybody doesn't share the same joy, pain and discomfort, things will fall apart fast.

 

[gowalkabout]

motas I would be looking at a rooftop tent if I was in your position. I use to have a howling moon rtt with annex and found it the best option when single or as a couple. A rtt with a well set up canopy that you can lockup is brilliant. this is how I had my 130dc defender set up until the kids came along and now it is either swags or the trailer. it also all comes down to the $'s

 

[pappawheely]

The other thing is the more things that flip fold and slide out the more has to be setup. Perfect if your staying a few days. not so perfect if its a quick overnight stop. Which is kind of where im undecided.

Won't it take just as long to haul everything out, bed, tarp, kitchen and then pack it back away if you are living outside? That's what I don't like about a pop-up; you are constantly moving everything to find what you need or make room to cook or sleep. I am going with a large box where I can cook, sleep and work inside. I always have the option to move outside if the weather permits.

 

[T.Low]

My definition of 'Living Beside' includes sleeping outside the vehicle. If I were to only sleep inside the vehicle, I'd try to design it such that I didn't have to unload or rearrange the inside when I needed to hit the sack.

On a long trip, there are going to be days when you just don't want to deal with all the stuff. You'll want to find a nice quiet place, climb in and shut the door to the world.

If your traveling as a group, try to keep the mode of travel the same for everybody. If everybody doesn't share the same joy, pain and discomfort, things will fall apart fast.

Yes, I tired of the Keystone Cops Fire drill years ago.

 

[Ozarker]

Check out the "Jumping Jack". Check out the "A" frame campers, seems the two could be combined with folding sides. I'd like to see one with a slide kitchen for inside and outside use. You use a tent, cook under a screened in tent, I'd rather do that than fight the insects. Sleeping in or out certainly depends on the weather and I like A/C and heat. Almost every time I go out, it rains around here, there hasn't been a dry Memorial Day weekend in decades. Rain doesn't bother me, storms with higher winds that tear down wall tens bother me. Everything is a compromise.

 

[xkid]

For those interested the Wedgetail is here and costs from $45,000 AUD (ouch).
That is actually a really good design I'd completely forgotten about. I might have to steal some ideas from it.
Not entirely relevant to the topic but I do not like how the baskets just sit in the rails and how everything is pretty much left to float around. Ok for on the road but once I hit the tracks that stove and everything else is just going to bounce around inside.

Back on topic here are two designs I really like showing what I mean:

Soenkes I'm sure you've all seen. The kitchen bed and dinette are all inside in a very small camper, if its bad weather everything can be done inside. Its also quick and easy to setup and use. But I hate to think what it cost to build and it is a very small space.

I couldnt find the one I wanted, the one I wanted was a custom aluminium tray on the back of i think a tacoma with a roof top tented mounted on a cage above it. The storage on the tray only filled half the gap under the RTT and could be used as a bench. Anyway this brute is the idea with a rtt mounted on a cage with storage underneath.

If I can't sleep inside,I like this idea.

 

[motas]

My definition of 'Living Beside' includes sleeping outside the vehicle. If I were to only sleep inside the vehicle, I'd try to design it such that I didn't have to unload or rearrange the inside when I needed to hit the sack.

On a long trip, there are going to be days when you just don't want to deal with all the stuff. You'll want to find a nice quiet place, climb in and shut the door to the world.

If your traveling as a group, try to keep the mode of travel the same for everybody. If everybody doesn't share the same joy, pain and discomfort, things will fall apart fast.

I didn't really know what to call it other than beside, I intend to sleep in the vehicle though. This is probably the biggest concern I have that sometimes you dont want to deal with setup and just want to eat and go to bed. But the trade off is there cant be as many things flip, folding and sliding out especially with canvas which means less space.
As for group travel at this point dad sleeps in the back of his silverado, some sleep in tents another has a caravan and one has a slide in caravan so kind of not an issue what i do. But for the most part we arent exactly travel as a group and generally arrive at different times.

motas I would be looking at a rooftop tent if I was in your position. I use to have a howling moon rtt with annex and found it the best option when single or as a couple. A rtt with a well set up canopy that you can lockup is brilliant. this is how I had my 130dc defender set up until the kids came along and now it is either swags or the trailer. it also all comes down to the $'s

I cant buy a canopy (or tub) for this car so I have to build the entire back regardless of what i do. Being a uni student i have to keep costs way down too, off the shelf and professionally made units are out of the question, used slide on campers how i want are not common or cheap either. But with over a 1 tonne payload i could swing a rtt and fab a back for it pretty easy and be way under the limit. At this point it is for just me but want to allow for 2, but never more. Do you have any pictures of your setup? How long does it take to setup for a short stay or fully? Did you find setting up/packing up difficult in poor weather?

Won't it take just as long to haul everything out, bed, tarp, kitchen and then pack it back away if you are living outside? That's what I don't like about a pop-up; you are constantly moving everything to find what you need or make room to cook or sleep. I am going with a large box where I can cook, sleep and work inside. I always have the option to move outside if the weather permits.

Id expect it would take longer if i was living outside. A large box has its downfalls though, some of the campsites and tracks i frequent I would not want to have a larger vehicle. The switchbacks can be very tight at this wheelbase as well as the distance between trees around corners would make a truck a nightmare. The added weight would also not help in the mud we get so much. So I am trying to cram everything into the space I have without having to shuffle everything around which is impossible after a certain point.

Check out the "Jumping Jack". Check out the "A" frame campers, seems the two could be combined with folding sides. I'd like to see one with a slide kitchen for inside and outside use. You use a tent, cook under a screened in tent, I'd rather do that than fight the insects. Sleeping in or out certainly depends on the weather and I like A/C and heat. Almost every time I go out, it rains around here, there hasn't been a dry Memorial Day weekend in decades. Rain doesn't bother me, storms with higher winds that tear down wall tens bother me. Everything is a compromise.

That jumping jack is a really cool design! A frame campers are pretty common round here, always looked kind of funky to me but a cool idea nonetheless. Is this like what you meant? The problem with this design is it has a huge floorspace but cant put anything on it. I figure one side could have the bed strapped to it since it is just flat. But i couldn't think of anything else to put on the other side which would work. Possibly have the dinnete slide out from the main area. With some work it could work quite well though. My concerns would be weight and how well the canvas would fold back up into the body especially when wet.
I saw a really cool design once (no way id be able to find it again) someone had made a kitchen that was mounted inside the camper, but rotated out and slid down for outside use. Very neat. Ac and heat arent a huge issue, currently im living without heat in my car or home and its the coldest winter for a long time and a decent jumper is manageable. We generally dont get massive amounts of wind around here. Ive never had a (quality) tent fall over in the wind when pegged properly. As a kid ive been around a lot of australia in our old canvas tent we still have with no issues.

Sorry about all the negativity, as you can see i'm very undecided what direction to take with this and theres negatives for every design i can think of, especially trying to fill an almost impossible requirement list with almost no budget. Thanks everybody for your opinions and ideas though it does help a lot and I've already got some good ideas from the suggestions.
Also one thing i forgot to mention in the future I may have to drive the race track in this vehicle. Not exceptionally fast or difficult but it can get rough at parts. Stock softroaders go through but weve broken a few bottles on the way around.

 

[Herbie]

Yes, I tired of the Keystone Cops Fire drill years ago.

Ditto this. The first outing in our pop-top converted van, it took nearly an hour to setup camp and the better part of 2 hours to strike camp again the next morning. WAAAAY too long.

I've been slowly eliminating all the inefficiencies that I can - changing how and where stuff stows, what gear I bring, etc. and we've got it down to about a half-hour on each end now. There are a few "steps" that will just continue to take time: Removing/Reinstalling the baby seat, rolling the sleeping bags, and pulling down the pop-top and stuffing the tent.

For everything else, I've made a lot of decisions about gear, storage and systems - trading speed/ease of setup and teardown vs. space, weight, etc. The biggest change lately was to ditch the ultra-compact coleman camp kitchen and folding table. They were very light and packed up small, and served well for many trips, but they were finicky, and took too long to open/close. Trading those in on a pair of those 2'x4' lifetime folding tables (one regular, one "grilling" with wire matrix for hot stuff) took up a bit more room and are a bit heavier, but they're easy to monkey with.

Currently, in theory, the only items that absolutely have to be relocated prior to sleeping in the van are the carseat (moved to driver's seat), folding tables, and camp chairs. These either get setup or just thrown under the van if it looks like weather. Then top is popped, sleeping bags rolled out, and it's off to sleep we go. In practice, my wife finds a way to overpack clothes and toys for the kid, so I end up relocating several duffle bags as well...