Lock N Roll bolt thread failure

[rezdiver]

well that could be a very likely cause, and probably caused by whoever assembled it probably by over tightening it. could be anything from overstretching the threads and deforming them . if the materials are not compatible or the coating on the bolt will start to gall once it is over torqued and heats up. and a result of no antiseize compound being used.
then when you backed it off the burrs or materials caused by the galling action or stripping of the threads when originally tightened destroyed the threads.
I dont think its a material issue, its operator issue here.


a hint with large nuts and bolts, if the the threads feel rough (Whether its a coating or manufacturer issue) when running the nut on the bolt with your hand, stop, at every point of resistance stop the nut hit the side of the nut while still on the bolt with a hammer on at least 4 sides, back the nut off slightly , spin it on again till the next spot of resistance and continue this method until you can run the nut by hand all the way up and down.

this method eliminates destroying the threads with a die or wrecking all the coating with a wire wheel or brush. it works really well.

 

[teotwaki]

well that could be a very likely cause, and probably caused by whoever assembled it probably by over tightening it. could be anything from overstretching the threads and deforming them . if the materials are not compatible or the coating on the bolt will start to gall once it is over torqued and heats up. and a result of no antiseize compound being used.
then when you backed it off the burrs or materials caused by the galling action or stripping of the threads when originally tightened destroyed the threads.
I dont think its a material issue, its operator issue here.


a hint with large nuts and bolts, if the the threads feel rough (Whether its a coating or manufacturer issue) when running the nut on the bolt with your hand, stop, at every point of resistance stop the nut hit the side of the nut while still on the bolt with a hammer on at least 4 sides, back the nut off slightly , spin it on again till the next spot of resistance and continue this method until you can run the nut by hand all the way up and down.

this method eliminates destroying the threads with a die or wrecking all the coating with a wire wheel or brush. it works really well.

It may have been an operator issue but if I go to any store and randomly try other vendor's 2" hitch ball units and run the nut up and down the threads they go all the way up and back down without resistance.

For the new one that I bought I did use anti-sieze compound. Your hammer treatment is a good-to-know technique. Thanks for sharing!

 

[rezdiver]

it is what it is,

the thread method i wrote here is what we use on teflon coated oil and gas pipeline flange bolts worth hundereds of dollars each, you would think a bolt with such high quality and tolerances for such an important task would run up and down with no issues.....no, they still bind up.
consider some of those 2" ball units you tried may be out of spec being too loose, I doubt they are made with high tolerances, its just a hitch.

 

[teotwaki]

When I get back home I'll disassemble the hitch , clean off the anti-sieze lube and try out the hammer technique.

I don't know if DDog45 has had a response from Lock N Roll yet but I'd love to know.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Yes, a free running nut says nothing about the actual quality of the fastener. Could just be the thread is undersized.

 

[teotwaki]

Good stuff! When I bought my trailer I had no idea I would learn so much about hitches and related issues :victory:

 

[Atoyot1031]

FYI, I had an absolutely terrible experience dealing with LNR this spring. After months, I finally had to demand my money back. Keep in mind, I was patient, kind, and unstanding in dealing with them to a fault.

Martyn is too kind. Not only do they have terrible customer service, but they lied to me time and time again (similar to the OP's story) about production dates, ship dates, etc.

Finally enough was enough. My experience was mentioned in this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43688

 

[teotwaki]

FYI, I had an absolutely terrible experience dealing with LNR this spring. After months, I finally had to demand my money back. Keep in mind, I was patient, kind, and unstanding in dealing with them to a fault.

Martyn is too kind. Not only do they have terrible customer service, but they lied to me time and time again (similar to the OP's story) about production dates, ship dates, etc.

Finally enough was enough. My experience was mentioned in this thread: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43688

That thread echoes my poor experience with them.

 

[Martyn]

Martyn is too kind. Not only do they have terrible customer service, but they lied to me time and time again (similar to the OP's story) about production dates, ship dates, etc.

Well, I've had years of experience working with Lock-n-Roll, I have my own personal experience as a manufacturer, and I deal with thread issues on a daily basis, so yes I'm kind towards them.

The Lock-n-Roll manufacturing is not Great Lakes Forge's main business, they run a forge and deal with some large contracts. Sometimes the mass of information small companies have to deal with is close to overwhelming and things can be forgotten.

They are not timely but I think that has to do with prioritizing their production. The military contracts pay the bills, the coupler pays for a few beers on the weekend.

Not keeping people updated on delays, or not showing interest or concern regarding problems with your product is a customer service nightmare. As I said before some companies should just manufacture and leave the sales and customer service to others.

 

[fingas]

Yes, a free running nut says nothing about the actual quality of the fastener. Could just be the thread is undersized.

In my book an undersized thread is a direct reflection of the actual poor quality of the fastener. In my current job i have had to change fastener manufacturers multiple times to find one that can actually produce quality fasteners. A fastener that has to beat with a hammer, has undersized threads, or gritty feeling coating can lead to an under or overtorqued fastener.

 

[Martyn]

In my book an undersized thread is a direct reflection of the actual poor quality of the fastener. In my current job i have had to change fastener manufacturers multiple times to find one that can actually produce quality fasteners. A fastener that has to beat with a hammer, has undersized threads, or gritty feeling coating can lead to an under or overtorqued fastener.

I think it has to to with standard thread tolerances. If the female is at the high end of the tolerance and the male at the low end then the fit will be loose. It's a matter of finding a manufacturer who uses closer tolerances, or mil spec.

The down side is always cost.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

In my book an undersized thread is a direct reflection of the actual poor quality of the fastener. In my current job i have had to change fastener manufacturers multiple times to find one that can actually produce quality fasteners. A fastener that has to beat with a hammer, has undersized threads, or gritty feeling coating can lead to an under or overtorqued fastener.

I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I didn't mean to say that undersize threads were OK. What I meant was... to judge a fastener to "bad" because it's tough to assemble, or "good" because it's easy, is wrong. Sometimes tight threads are in spec. Usually loose threads are out of spec.

As Martyn said, it has to be that way.

I did a co-op term in naval propulsion engineering. I saw a case where a very high specification bolt for a ship driveshaft, cost over $100 each, were counterfeited. The counterfeit bolts failed, caused over $1M in damage, and the ship was in drydock for a year undergoing repairs.

Bolts seem like such a stupid simple thing, but they are VERY important, and can be very complicated.

 

[teotwaki]

Well, I've had years of experience working with Lock-n-Roll, I have my own personal experience as a manufacturer, and I deal with thread issues on a daily basis, so yes I'm kind towards them.

The Lock-n-Roll manufacturing is not Great Lakes Forge's main business, they run a forge and deal with some large contracts. Sometimes the mass of information small companies have to deal with is close to overwhelming and things can be forgotten.

They are not timely but I think that has to do with prioritizing their production. The military contracts pay the bills, the coupler pays for a few beers on the weekend.

Not keeping people updated on delays, or not showing interest or concern regarding problems with your product is a customer service nightmare. As I said before some companies should just manufacture and leave the sales and customer service to others.

My comments and thoughts are not exactly in the same order as yours. Yours are much appreciated!

With your years of experience with them you've had time to iron out problems and develop the relationship. Making multiple purchases from them gives you an edge as opposed to me just buying only half of a hitch. Basically I can only speak to my recent experience. When I bought the trailer I thought that having the Lok N Roll was a plus but now it is a concern.

When you say that the hitches are not their main business I have to say that the experience that I have had definitely proves that out. My current (limited) impression is that they don't care about my problems. I don't have any idea of how small or big they are, how busy they are or if they are even care about the product because they have barely interacted with me on this thread issue. You can speak from a longer and better experience and I am glad that you have good things to say about them. It removes some of the concern about the hitch and it speaks highly of you.

A $200+ coupler should have a little more backing, shouldn't it? It isn't a typical ball hitch we can purchase at Pep Boys or Kragens. We need to be able to completely trust our $5k to $15K trailers while offroading with a device from this company. A little improvement in customer service shouldn't be too much to ask of them.

Ulitimately I now don't expect anything from them. This has dragged out too long, they have my money and they seem satisfied with the miniscule effort they have expended for me. It is highly possible that this thread problem is not their fault but they have done nothing to help me come to that conclusion. All of the comments and information here show that nuts and bolts cannot be trusted without first understanding their limitations and proper use. This is one of the reasons that I come to the Portal; learning more and improving.

I hope that Lok N Roll enjoys the few weekend beers that my money paid for. :beer: I just don't want this hitch to fail!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a guess at what is going on, as I've seen it a few times.

Lok'n'Roll is a "hobby" business being run under the roof of a much larger business. Whoever the parent company is probably sells millions of dollars per year to some other industry (in this case, military?). One of the owners or principals of the company is an off-roader, and wanted a high-misalignment hitch, but there weren't any on the market. He saw his company had the ability to make this thing, possibly largely done in their maintenance shop rather than a production line. Since there was an unfullfilled demand in the market, they set up this little business selling them, but it's a "hobby", not really their meat and potatoes. It has the effort put into it as is befitting it's small stature in the grand scheme of things, and they also aren't used to handling retail business, but rather, large contracts. The whole thing may even be disliked by the office people who are stuck dealing with it.

I'm not saying this IS the case. Just a guess. As I said, I've seen it before in manufacturing industry.

 

[teotwaki]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and take a guess at what is going on, as I've seen it a few times.

Lok'n'Roll is a "hobby" business being run under the roof of a much larger business. Whoever the parent company is probably sells millions of dollars per year to some other industry (in this case, military?). One of the owners or principals of the company is an off-roader, and wanted a high-misalignment hitch, but there weren't any on the market. He saw his company had the ability to make this thing, possibly largely done in their maintenance shop rather than a production line. Since there was an unfullfilled demand in the market, they set up this little business selling them, but it's a "hobby", not really their meat and potatoes. It has the effort put into it as is befitting it's small stature in the grand scheme of things, and they also aren't used to handling retail business, but rather, large contracts. The whole thing may even be disliked by the office people who are stuck dealing with it.

I'm not saying this IS the case. Just a guess. As I said, I've seen it before in manufacturing industry.

Sounds like a good guess to me. :sombrero: Martyn could probably validate it.