Long Jeep.....chasing unicorns

[Metcalf]

I hope this thread will let me hash out some details and thoughts on a new build I have been tossing around for years....

I really enjoy the Dodge that I build a few years back. It is a simple vehicle that works really well doing a variety of chores. You can read about it here....

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/24653-Project-Doitall-Dodge?highlight=doitall

A 1-ton diesel powered regular cab long bed camper shelled good ol' American pickup truck is hard to beat a lot of the time. It works great for a daily driver, towing things, you can sleep in the back, among other useful features. Sadly though, the truck has over 300,000 miles on it now and it just getting a little long in the tooth. It hasn't had an easy life and you can tell. Over the road it works pretty well really returning good fuel mileage. On dirt roads the age and lack of modern technology starts to show. On more difficult off road trails the truck is just too dang big to do what I want. The hood is HUGE and almost impossible to see over when you really need to. Bottom line....too big and getting a little long in the tooth.

My latest little Willys project has been a lot of fun. You can read about that one here....

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/58343-Rango-1942-Willys-MB

It is basically the complete opposite of my Dodge truck. It is very small, very light, and pretty dang capable off road. I do realize its limitations however both on-road and off-road. It is most happy cruising about 50-55mph. Anything faster and you feel like you might start to go back in time. Off road the little thing gets around pretty dang well, but has its limitations because of the short wheelbase. I tried to maximize the off road performance by using just about every trick I now....low stance, light weight, front heavy, good clearance, etc. While it is a VERY cool vehicle that I think will always have a special section in my heart it just isn't practical for what I want ONE vehicle to do.

Ok....so what does this guy want you ask.....

I have blabbed about it a bit in these threads a bit.

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/76268-JK-4-door-to-2-door-long-wheelbase-conversion
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/60491-An-idea-CJ8
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/29157-The-J8-thread
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/35823-The-Dakar-Car

To boil is down as simply as I can for now. I want the guts of a 3/4ton-1ton truck in and under a body the width of a normal 59" wide Jeep body but long enough I can sleep inside.

Let the bench racing begin! The 'chasing unicorns' part comes from a few friends that are only mildly annoyed with me trying to have the perfect do everything anytime vehicle:sombrero:

 

[bishopdunn]

Are you looking for something that already exists that can be modified or are you looking to build something from the ground up?

 

[Metcalf]

Are you looking for something that already exists that can be modified or are you looking to build something from the ground up?

Kinda half and half.

I think I can get more of what I want in a vehicle for less money if I don't have to buy a base vehicle to begin with. On the other hand there are some things that I just can't really build myself in a cost effective way....mainly tops, doors, windshields, etc.

I think the solution is to have Aqualu build me an aluminum 'Jeep' tub that I can use a factory top, doors, etc on?

 

[Grasslakeron]

What type of budget do you have? You can have what you what for a 100k. Why don't you make an expedition trailer to sleep in and build a nice rubi with 1 ton axles and a 4bt. The all in one is the jk camper with the other goodies and a 6 figure price tag.

Ron

 

[Dan Grec]

I like your plan, I would buy the same thing if the price was reasonable.

I know you looked into blanking out the back doors on a JKU, then joining the 2 and 4 door hard tops to get what you want.... Did you give up on that idea?

I personally am keeping my eyes on the price of 2007 JKU Rubicons.. they can be had for cheap these days, and that 3.8 doesn't belong in there anyway.
If i'm lucky, I'll find one for peanuts with a dead 3.8 and maybe even some damage on panels I plan on replacing anyway.

-Dan

 

[NOMADIC_LJ]

3/4 ton Jeep with a bed long enough to sleep in.


Seriously though why not get a CJ6 and swap all the guts from a chevy/ford 3/4 ton truck? or if you want to go newer (and more money) have a JK 2 door stretched so you basically make a cheap J-8? or go with a rover 109 and Toyota drivetrain?

Either way this is gonna cost a 3/4 ton of dough. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

 

[Metcalf]

Tough to say, I don't have 100K that is for sure. Rough numbers I am looking at trying to limit this build to about 20-30K. I think by eliminating the cost of the initial donor vehicle from the beginning that really opens up some interesting options. The dangerous line to walk is how custom you end up going. If I buy a tub that will work with a factory top/doors/etc that should keep me relatively grounded.

I'm not really interested in towing a trailer, honestly I hate towing trailers. While I do admit the idea has merit, its just not my thing. I want a totally self contained vehicle. That being said, one of the conditions I have for this build is that it will have enough power and drivetrain to allow me to tow a trailer of around 4000-5000lbs when I need to. This won't be cross country, but maybe towing a new project home, towing my Willys somewhere, etc.

While I REALLY like diesel engines I just don't think I will go that direction. Basically I just don't think there is a diesel engine in the USA that would give me what I want. They are all too big, too heavy, too small, too complex, etc. I wish we had more options in this country for diesel engines but there just aren't.

I'm not interested in a JK camper. That generally a little too expensive for what you get in my option. It is also pushing the big envelope for the level of off road performance I want. I wish I had 100K to throw at engine swaps, axle swaps, and custom work but I just don't. A J8 style 3door panelwagon would be very very cool.

I'm kinda confused by the Rubi comment, if you going to do all that swapping why start with a Rubicon model in the 1st place?

 

[Metcalf]

I like your plan, I would buy the same thing if the price was reasonable.

I know you looked into blanking out the back doors on a JKU, then joining the 2 and 4 door hard tops to get what you want.... Did you give up on that idea?

I personally am keeping my eyes on the price of 2007 JKU Rubicons.. they can be had for cheap these days, and that 3.8 doesn't belong in there anyway.
If i'm lucky, I'll find one for peanuts with a dead 3.8 and maybe even some damage on panels I plan on replacing anyway.

-Dan

I do think a J8 style 4-door JK would be neat. The problem is the initial cost. In my book even 10-15K for a used up old JK is too much. That same money can go a LONG way towards a custom body, frame, engine, trans, etc.

 

[Metcalf]

Seriously though why not get a CJ6 and swap all the guts from a chevy/ford 3/4 ton truck? or if you want to go newer (and more money) have a JK 2 door stretched so you basically make a cheap J-8? or go with a rover 109 and Toyota drivetrain?

Either way this is gonna cost a 3/4 ton of dough. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

A cj6 is close. I just don't think they have enough top/door support. The small door opening is also very annoying. I would like to get out to the 110" wheelbase range and the CJ6 is just a little bit short for that. All in all a solid idea though.

Rovers are ummmmm....kinda junk in my opinion *gasp*. They are also a little rare. Cost of entry is getting up there depending on what you get. etc. The size is just about right though...maybe with a little less bulk in the front and overhang in the rear.

I don't think it will cost THAT much, in the end probably less than buying a stock new JK 4-door. I'm not saying that I won't have a ton of time in it when its done, but I enjoy building a lot...most days....

 

[Dan Grec]

I'm kinda confused by the Rubi comment, if you going to do all that swapping why start with a Rubicon model in the 1st place?

All the work I plan to do is the exterior, engine and interior. I plan to keep the axles, which is the biggest advantage of the Rubi IMHO.

Given the fairly low cargo rating of the JKU anyway, I think a two locked D44s is sufficient. I have no interest in running tires over 35, more likely they will be 33s

-Dan

 

[Metcalf]

All the work I plan to do is the exterior, engine and interior. I plan to keep the axles, which is the biggest advantage of the Rubi IMHO.

Given the fairly low cargo rating of the JKU anyway, I think a two locked D44s is sufficient. I have no interest in running tires over 35, more likely they will be 33s

-Dan

That I can see, but once you cross over that 37" tire barrier into big tire land I just don't think its that wise to start with just about any off the shelf small vehicle out there. You can get stronger axles in something like a 3/4ton-1-ton truck but then the body gets too big for what I have in mind.

I am basically looking at the guts of a 1-ton truck in a 110" wheelbase jeep with a body long enough to sleep in.......CJ6, CJ8, LJ are all about the right size body.

 

[Payback]

Have you considered a Pinzgauer or Volvo C303/4? I know the engine is a little weak, but you were talking about swapping that out anyway.

 

[Grasslakeron]

Tough to say, I don't have 100K that is for sure. Rough numbers I am looking at trying to limit this build to about 20-30K. I think by eliminating the cost of the initial donor vehicle from the beginning that really opens up some interesting options. The dangerous line to walk is how custom you end up going. If I buy a tub that will work with a factory top/doors/etc that should keep me relatively grounded.

I'm not really interested in towing a trailer, honestly I hate towing trailers. While I do admit the idea has merit, its just not my thing. I want a totally self contained vehicle. That being said, one of the conditions I have for this build is that it will have enough power and drivetrain to allow me to tow a trailer of around 4000-5000lbs when I need to. This won't be cross country, but maybe towing a new project home, towing my Willys somewhere, etc.

While I REALLY like diesel engines I just don't think I will go that direction. Basically I just don't think there is a diesel engine in the USA that would give me what I want. They are all too big, too heavy, too small, too complex, etc. I wish we had more options in this country for diesel engines but there just aren't.

I'm not interested in a JK camper. That generally a little too expensive for what you get in my option. It is also pushing the big envelope for the level of off road performance I want. I wish I had 100K to throw at engine swaps, axle swaps, and custom work but I just don't. A J8 style 3door panelwagon would be very very cool.

I'm kinda confused by the Rubi comment, if you going to do all that swapping why start with a Rubicon model in the 1st place?

A rubi is a good start and who knows it might do what you want without the axles and such. I have an LJ, it has a 106" wb. I am six feet tall and there is no way I can lay down flat unless the passenger seat is all the way forward with no back seat. Have you ever seen the chalet campers of the 1970's -80's? Based on a blazer or bronco. Both of those had a 106" wb. I have thought about building a camper for my lj similar to the chalet. The only thing stopping me is the misses who believes camping is a best western... the old m37 dodge military ambulance in an idea....

Ron

 

[Metcalf]

Have you considered a Pinzgauer or Volvo C303/4? I know the engine is a little weak, but you were talking about swapping that out anyway.

While very cool vehicles I think they are a little rare in the states to build from.

I would really like this vehicle to use somewhat common service parts that I can find at any autoparts store along the road.

 

[Metcalf]

A rubi is a good start and who knows it might do what you want without the axles and such. I have an LJ, it has a 106" wb. I am six feet tall and there is no way I can lay down flat unless the passenger seat is all the way forward with no back seat. Have you ever seen the chalet campers of the 1970's -80's? Based on a blazer or bronco. Both of those had a 106" wb. I have thought about building a camper for my lj similar to the chalet. The only thing stopping me is the misses who believes camping is a best western... the old m37 dodge military ambulance in an idea....

Ron

The Rubicon TJ, or JK, doesn't have enough axle for what I have in mind. It basically falls into that situation where I think I can get better parts starting with no base vehicle than I can buying a base vehicle and swapping everything out...

On your LJ for space. What if the passenger seat had a fold flat function like you see in some modern SUV's and crossovers? The sleeping platform would basically then be at about the level of the top rear wheel tubs ( approx 2-3" below the bodyline ) A small extension would flip forward creating a flat platform from the dash all the way to the tailgate. It would also be as wide as the passenger seat and the center console. The drivers seat could also be slid forward against the wheel perhaps. There would be tons of space under the platform for gear. The platform would be modular going in and out fairly easy. I would not require the ability to have the rear seat in the vehicle most of the time, but it would be nice to be able to install one for certain situations. I only need to sleep one person most of the time, two that really like each other on a secondary function.

I want to keep the 'camper' function of this vehicle minimalistic. Sleeping in the back of my Dodge in the camper shell is fine with me. All I need is a flat place long enough to sleep on out of the weather. I often 'stealth camp' on longer trips rather than have to get a motel room for 5-6 hours. It is really nice to just be able to find a somewhat out of the way place to pull over and crawl in back for some sleep. Having that ability in the Long Jeep would be a REALLY big bonus. It would be super great if you didn't have to go outside of the vehicle to do this. What I am thinking is you can reach over and flip the passenger seat down flat then pull the hinged platform forward having it rest on some predetermined supports on the dash ( maybe the typical jeep dash grab handle ). Then you could crawl directly from the drivers seat onto the sleeping platform. Grab a sleeping bag off a small rack on the B to C pillar cage tube, pull it out of storage, and climb in for some sleep. All that should take like 3 minutes if you do it right.....