Long Jeep.....chasing unicorns

[Lumberjack]

Ok with your skills this would be no problem...

1: Buy older TJ, sell axles, transfer case, engine, tj parts bring good money

2: Strip interior, brake line, fuel lines, and any wiring that may be in the way of sawzall. 3 hours max.

3: Mark body for your cut line, put new blade in sawzall and go to town. An hour later it should look like this...

4: Add 15" to center, same overall length as LJ and uses LJ top, use frame rail sections from junkyard TJ. Have even seen frame sections on Ebay. About 2 hours to hot glue gun it back together. Should look like this after the first day.

5: Paint and Body, My friend did the body work in a few days only working on it part time... If we had worked everyday all day on this we would been done in a week.

6: Modify passenger seat to fold flat for sleeping, add axles, atlas 4 speed, 360 w NV4500.

7: Wheel the snot out of your new bullet proof rig...

My only mistake is I sold it Kick myself once a week because of it... get to see every week though, friend bought, sits on 37" now and he wheels the snot out of it, turbo'd the 4 banger so its like a rocket now...

Full album here http://s291.photobucket.com/user/LumberjackJeep/library/Jeep%20Stretch?page=1

Dennis

 

[blakeape]

I'm a Toyota guys but built something sort of along the lines of what you are talking about I think. I have a
-1996 extended cab Tacoma
-3.4 V6 190 hp, 5spd
-dual cases with 4.7 gears
-1979 Ford Kingpin 60 front, 5.38 gears, ARB locker, cromoly axles hydro assist
-14 bolt rear, 5.38's, detroit, discs
-leaf sprung axles
-front and rear traction bars
-Warn XD9000
-home made bumpers and sliders
-42" Iroks on recentered H1's or 40"MTR's on H2's
-wheelbase shortened to 116 inches. 7 inches cut from front of bed, 13ish inches bobbed rear
-back of cab cut out, topper bobbed to match
-almost 7 feet inside from back of seats to tailgate plenty of room to sleep
-anywhere from 8mpg (wheeling) to 13 cruising pavement on the 40's


What I would do different is:
-89-95 Toyota extended cab to start with (stronger frame and cheaper initial purchase price)
-5.3 Chevy or maybe 3.4 Toyota with supercharger
-passenger side drop front axle (stronger Toyota cases) or Atlas 4 speed t-case
-probably 3 link the front
-for more expo stuff 37- 38 inch tires

 

[Lumberjack]

One more with LJ Soft Top

 

[OverlandLJ]

^ That is a pretty amazing rig right there.

 

[Grasslakeron]

I re-read your original post. What exactly do you want to do with this? Which trail did you have in mind? Rx crawler or trail boss? Light or second coming? I have some ideas...

Ron

 

[thebrassnuckles]

Ok with your skills this would be no problem...

1: Buy older TJ, sell axles, transfer case, engine, tj parts bring good money

2: Strip interior, brake line, fuel lines, and any wiring that may be in the way of sawzall. 3 hours max.

3: Mark body for your cut line, put new blade in sawzall and go to town. An hour later it should look like this...

4: Add 15" to center, same overall length as LJ and uses LJ top, use frame rail sections from junkyard TJ. Have even seen frame sections on Ebay. About 2 hours to hot glue gun it back together. Should look like this after the first day.

5: Paint and Body, My friend did the body work in a few days only working on it part time... If we had worked everyday all day on this we would been done in a week.

6: Modify passenger seat to fold flat for sleeping, add axles, atlas 4 speed, 360 w NV4500.

7: Wheel the snot out of your new bullet proof rig...

My only mistake is I sold it Kick myself once a week because of it... get to see every week though, friend bought, sits on 37" now and he wheels the snot out of it, turbo'd the 4 banger so its like a rocket now...

Full album here http://s291.photobucket.com/user/LumberjackJeep/library/Jeep Stretch?page=1

Dennis

That was yours?!?! I used to drool over that build all the time when I had a TJ. I wanted to do that to mine so bad.

 

[Metcalf]

Lots of good ideas!

Pickup vs SUV. With a pickup I think you either end up too long in wheelbase or have too much rear overhang. I have thought about bobbing the dodge to fix this issue more than once. You basically need about a 6 foot bed to sleep in so that kinda limits how short you can get the vehicle. I have a soft spot of older toyota trucks. A regular cab longbed that was bobbed down to shortbed length would be pretty neat. That would give you a 6' bed with about a 115" wheelbase if I remember right.

The main issue I have with pickups is the separation of the bed and cab. You basically get a pretty cramped cab given a longer wheelbase. It would be nice if this vehicle could be reconfigured to have a rear seat for the rare times I need one. It might only be once or twice a year, but it would still be nice. Ridding in the back of a pickup just isn't as cool as it was when I was a kid. If you have an SUV type body with the 'bed' area and passenger area joined I think it might be a better use of space in a shorter overall vehicle?

Grasslakeron
I re-read your original post. What exactly do you want to do with this? Which trail did you have in mind? Rx crawler or trail boss? Light or second coming? I have some ideas...

The problem is I don't exactly know that I want to do with it. I want it to do everything well. I think my primary focus is good off road performance. Being able to do a trail like Pritchett Canyon in moab while still being able to go down the highway would be a good baseline. Pritchett is just hard enough that even some seriously built vehicle have issues....of course you can go on youtube and see a stock 2door JK Rubicon do parts of it! My Willys was able to do parts but was just too short to make the big climbs.

I'm not focused on building it for one specific trail, but I want it to be VERY capable off road while retaining the ability to drive down the road. It would be nice to be able to play at Moab on the harder trails, do the Rubicon, Dusy Ershim, spend a month in the desert, Go to KOH and run some hammer trails, play on the deep deep snow runs some friends do up north, drive cross country a few times, etc. It must be very multi-purpose with more off road performance than your average stock based vehicle.

njtacoma
Could you purchase a factory frame? and build with a new tub? It seems to me like the right wrecked LJ might be able to be made to work. It wouldn't be the same as buying a good runner, and you would gain the benefit of factory wiring for some things, steering column etc.

I am guessing that I would spend more money and time modding a factory frame than I would to just build a custom one? I'm not afraid of building a frame from scratch. I actually think that is one of the easier parts of the build. If you start with a custom frame you are not limited to what you can do with the stock frame. The stock TJ frame really isn't that special in my opinion. I think you could add a little more front kick, make it a parallel rail design, and trim some extra fat off the back of the frame pretty easy. Material for a custom frame is going to be maybe $500 max.

I do get stuck on using a stock tub a little bit. It makes some things easier but makes others more difficult. I do think the stock LJ tub has some pretty neat features but also some things in the design would make it a total pain in the rear to work with. If I found one at the right price maybe.....

A clean custom tub has some real advantages in my opinion, especially when you consider some of the small changes you could make that REALLY improve the overall vehicle....

-The rear floor could be made slightly wider. If you went from the stock 36"(ish) rear floor to around a 40" floor you would have a lot more space. It could allow you to run a large spare tire directly on the floor, forward in the chassis for the best weight distribution. A wider rear seat could be used. More room on the floor to store stuff.

-The rear wheel tubs could be raised. This would let you run a much larger tire at a much lower overall height. On the custom tub the top of the wheel tubs are also flat, much easier for making a platform, mounting things, etc.

-The tunnel can be made much taller. This would let you mount the engine, transmission, and transfer case higher in the chassis with more belly clearance at a lower ride height.

-I don't really love the stock TJ dash. I think it sticks out a bit too much and takes up too much space. I would rather have a more simple flat(ish) style CJ style dash. You could probably gain another 3-4" of room for the sleeping platform on the passenger side this way.

Lumberjack
Ok with your skills this would be no problem...

It basically falls into that stock vehicle black hole, is that REALLY less work overall for the product you get in the end? I'm not super in love with anything TJ really. I don't think I would keep a single thing really......having a dash and climate control would be nice, but you are still going to have to wire in a different engine, gauges maybe, etc. The stock wiring harness would be there but i think once you add in another possible computer to control another brand of engine things get kinda complicated.

That is VERY cool though. How did the 109"(ish) wheelbase feel?

 

[Metcalf]

I'm not totally set with a specific body/frame yet but I am leaning pretty hard toward an Aqualu LJ tub with a custom frame.

So....what about the guts.

I really want to use parts that are common and generally easy to find. I would prefer to stay away from super expensive and custom stuff like Atlas transfer cases, expensive adapters, custom axle housings, etc. Being able to go into just about any parts house and get replacement parts is pretty important to me. I don't want a ton of custom one off service parts if I can help it.

Here is my current list.....

-5.3 LS GM truck engine ( Very common, affordable, easy to find parts for, 300+hp, TONS of aftermarket support for wiring harnesses, brackets, etc )
-6l80e automatic ( 6spd wide ratio HD transmission, good factory tow rating, tap shift manual control, mated with the proposed engine from the factory )
-Ford NP205 transfer case (cheap, strong, easily adapted to the 6l80, twin stick capable for front dig, cheap parts, common )
-2002 dodge 2500 dana 60 rear axle ( low pinion dana 60, full float, factory disc brakes with parking brake, 8 on 6.5 lug pattern, affordable, upgradeable big 03+ brakes )
-2002 dodge 2500 dana 60 front axle ( low pinion, no-CAD, upgradeable big 03+ brakes, 8 on 6.5 lug pattern, affordable, nice steering arm position )
-6.17 gears, lockers of some flavor, and 35 spline shaft upgrades.
-2003+ Dodge 2500 wheels ( 17x8, 6.13" backspacing, 'polished' version is FORGED aluminum wheel, cheap, pretty common )
-Tires. Something in the 37-40" range. Undecided.

Any thoughts?

 

[MrBeast]

I think with the 6L80E you are going into uber over kill territory. I think a 4L80e would be more than enough, actually in your application a 4L60E would probably get the job done. the The 6L80E is a very large heavy transmission. I just see no call for one behind a 5.3.

There are a couple of considerations I would make that in your case I would think would favor a pickup style cab over a CJ/LJ like you are talking about, one of those would be is the factory heater going to keep up in Colorado in the winter time? If this rig is going to be your daily driver I don't suspect you are going to carpet the back and put insulation under it, I foresee bed liner which although a great product does not insulate all that well.

I would think going the truck cab route here would make more sense, They make a TJ style cab, if you could get your hands on a cheap TJ for parts, you could gut the dash out of it, have a modern HVAC system, modern wipers, cruise control, all the creature comforts in a sweet jeep package.

As well if you still want a metal dash DD fab makes an all steel TJ Dash that looks killer.

As far as rear axle position goes, there is no reason you can't build a jeep truck with a bobbed rear end, I was also thinking if you used one of Aqualu's tub/beds you could get a pair of old hard tops and section them together to make a nice bed cap. Then if you wanted to put a jump seat in the back it would be no issue.

The other added benefit of this setup would be the removable hard top on the cab so in the summer when it was nice you could still go put put around with the top and doors off if you wanted to.

 

[Dan Grec]

Just to throw something else out.. have you seen the Brute being built on a JKU frame?

http://forum.aev-conversions.com/showthread.php?t=6030

Maybe you could put your custom tub on a JKU frame?

-Dan

 

[Metcalf]

All solid points....

I think with the 6L80E you are going into uber over kill territory. I think a 4L80e would be more than enough, actually in your application a 4L60E would probably get the job done. the The 6L80E is a very large heavy transmission. I just see no call for one behind a 5.3.

The 6l80 is a taller than the 400/4l80/4l60 stuff but not any longer. I have to make a custom tunnel anyways for a flat belly so making it a bit larger isn't really a big issue. It was a factory combination behind the engine I want to use in newer lower mile pull outs. It is getting harder to find a pull out with less than 100K for an older LS truck engine that might have the 4l60 or 4l80.

The gearing in the 6l80 is what I am really after. The clutch to clutch shifting and computer control is LIGHT YEARS ahead of the 4l60 or 4l80 in my opinion. The super broad gearing also allows me to run MUCH high gears in the transfer case ( 2:1 low np205 ) and still have a great low range ratio that has a very wide speed range. The gearing on the 6l80 goes from a 4.03 1st gear to a 0.667 double overdrive. Basically, that lets me have a 50:1 low range with a stupid cheap NP205 and still have a max low range speed of something like 70mph! I don't need to go 70 in low range, but that is REALLY nice in sandy desert type terrain to take the strain off the transmission on the low end and still be able to use momentum to your advantage.

One of my good friends runs a 5.3/4l60 combo in his TJ. It works well but the 4l60 has some pretty dang big jumps between gears. 1-2 is pretty large and so is 3-4.

The 6l80 can also be tap shifted. You can even program in full manual start and stop in any gear shift schedules if you want.

Personally I think the 6l80 makes this entire idea work. With another automatic I think I would end up wanting more than one low range ratio to make it work right. TJ buddy runs a 4:1 t-case and it is plesantly low in technical stuff BUT he really doesn't have the middle low range ratio ( 2.72-2:1 ) that he needs for mild stuff, sand, etc. High range heats up the transmission too much.


There are a couple of considerations I would make that in your case I would think would favor a pickup style cab over a CJ/LJ like you are talking about, one of those would be is the factory heater going to keep up in Colorado in the winter time? If this rig is going to be your daily driver I don't suspect you are going to carpet the back and put insulation under it, I foresee bed liner which although a great product does not insulate all that well.

I don't think it would be that big of an issue. You could always stick a windjammer style fabric divider to section off the seating area if you wanted.
Colorado really isn't that cold....at least this part of the state.

I would think going the truck cab route here would make more sense, They make a TJ style cab, if you could get your hands on a cheap TJ for parts, you could gut the dash out of it, have a modern HVAC system, modern wipers, cruise control, all the creature comforts in a sweet jeep package.

While I agree on some levels that might work, it seems like a lot of extra work to buy another vehicle to gut it. The Aqualu tubs take CJ/YJ parts on the inside. Most of that stuff is available off ebay or from a dismantler easy enough. Cruise control will have to be engine specific with a drive by wire 5.3. It isn't hard to add, but the TJ cruise doesn't do anything along that line.

As well if you still want a metal dash DD fab makes an all steel TJ Dash that looks killer.

Cool, making one myself does't seem like that big of a deal. I'm not really a fan of the stock bulging TJ dash as I mentioned before. A simple clean dash would be find by me.


As far as rear axle position goes, there is no reason you can't build a jeep truck with a bobbed rear end, I was also thinking if you used one of Aqualu's tub/beds you could get a pair of old hard tops and section them together to make a nice bed cap. Then if you wanted to put a jump seat in the back it would be no issue.

But I don't really want a truck. I kinda talked about that above. With the seating area and bed area separated you have to have a LOT longer vehicle to be able to sleep in it. I'm not really interested in having to make custom tops. That is kinda the point of using an off the shelf sized tub.....factory/aftermarket off the shelf tops. I looked at making some custom top stuff for my panelwagon JK idea and it just turned into a big headache. I would rather put my fabrication time towards other things in the chassis.

The other added benefit of this setup would be the removable hard top on the cab so in the summer when it was nice you could still go put put around with the top and doors off if you wanted to.

I can't do this with the regular jeep top?

I think for me one of those frameless soft tops would work out really well. They are pretty affordable since you don't have to buy much of the factory soft top hardware. The bulk of the top in the rear portion of the body with the LJ is slimmed WAY down with the fastback shape. The sides just zip out and store in the top making a bikini safari style top without having to take anything on and off. It is the lightest option overall I think.

The downside is that it will be a soft top so you have to plan around that for storage and security.

I can always use a factory hard top if the soft top was an issue.

 

[Metcalf]

Just to throw something else out.. have you seen the Brute being built on a JKU frame?
Maybe you could put your custom tub on a JKU frame?

I don't really think the JK frame buys you that much really......you still have to spend money on it and you still probably have to mod if for the new body.

Personally, I don't see building a frame as a bad thing. Heck, I think it even makes a LOT of things work out better. I built one for my Willys and it turned out great. I can see where people could get hung up on building a frame from scratch. Its not really that big of a deal. A new frame would probably cost me only a few $100 in material.

 

[1stDeuce]

Hmm... I haven't read the ENTIRE thread, but I skimmed some. I wanted something similar to what you want... Smallish like a TJ/YJ/XJ but longer so I could sleep in it or haul stuff. I ended up collecting parts for a few years and putting together a scrambler-ish TJ. It's basically a 10+10 stretch, or an unlimited with a 5" rear stretch. If I did it again, I'd probably stretch the rear 9" to match scrambler length. It's just barely long enough to sleep in, (I'm 6') though I haven't done that yet, since it's much more comfortable for me to put up the tent and use the Jeep for storage and a cooking platform.

Mine has a 4.0L, but it's fairly anemic here in CO. If you want an auto, a 5.3L/auto combo out of a trailblazer or silverado would do the trick nicely, but I prefer a stick, and the 4.0L is much better for that. I'm going to stroke the 4.0L this summer and see how that does.

As for your desire for 3/4 ton axles that I was seeing early on, it sounds nice, but for a smaller vehicle, and particularly if you're building more for exploring than hard core rock trails, it's a little overkill, and kinda defeats the point of wanting to keep the vehicle narrower. I'm running a D44 rear and a TJ D30 front. A non-disconnect D30 out of an XJ would be a little stronger (High pinion, reverse rotation IIRC) but if you stay at 4:10, the ring an pinion is plenty strong anyway. Some high grade axle shafts are good insurance if you're rough with things, but I've been down some REALLY nasty trails (Or up in the case of Pritchett canyon!) and I've not had any breakage. (I'm not making youtube videos, I'm just running the trail to get somewhere.) I've run both a 242 t-case from an XJ (with the Full Time 4wd mode) and a 241 Rubicon case with 4:1. I like the 242 enough that I'll probably put it back in soon. 4:1 isn't enough for the really nasty stuff, and I miss the full time 4wd mode.

In the end, it's a 3700lb jeep... You're not going to tow 8000lbs with it, and if you're building it huge then there's no point to wanting to keep it smaller, and you may as well start with a 2500 suburban and blend on a removable blazer top.

As an alternative, I'm in the process of putting a scrambler back together that I made a YJ frame for. The orig CJ frame was toast. If you find a good deal on a YJ, you can order a fiberglass or aluminum Scrambler tub, find another YJ frame and put them together and it works out really well. Stock Scrambler tops fit, modern-ish YJ interior and driveability, good ride if you keep the lift height down to 2.5" or so, and the ability to have a very "Classic" looking jeep if you put a CJ nose on it. That said, I got the top on my TJ stretched 5" to fit by a guy in Denver. He did an AWESOME job, and I really like it, so don't be afraid of a little top work!

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with, whatever it ends up being!
C

 

[Bigjerm]

Alright so I have read the whole thread and I have come to a simple conclusion on it after seeing lots of great ideas in this thread. Build it yourself. You have probably said that 5-10 times about spending less money building a frame, body and all that yourself instead of buying a donor vehicle and gutting it. Time to get out some paper and start sketching! With all the ideas in this thread and the skill level you say you have, you should be able to make 1 heck of a vehicle we all drool over.

The LJ seems to be a common choice in the thread. I have 1 and love it but I tow it everywhere. A V8 would be great, 4.1 transfer case, 60 rear, 44 front, very little lift with trimmed/tube fenders to fit the tires. I wouldn't want to move the rear axle any because you don't want to lose any gas tank space. Towing would still not be that great because towing is calculated based on other factors besides engine and axle size. Stock LJ is rated for 3,000 lbs towing and you said towing car projects so I assume a 1,500 car trailer + weight of the car so you got some ways to go. In the end, an LJ is still kind of a small vehicle inside to me so it would fit the cross country bill for me.

 

[Metcalf]

1stDeuce, thank you for the great insight. Hearing from someone that has been there done that helps alot.

Hmm... I haven't read the ENTIRE thread, but I skimmed some. I wanted something similar to what you want... Smallish like a TJ/YJ/XJ but longer so I could sleep in it or haul stuff. I ended up collecting parts for a few years and putting together a scrambler-ish TJ. It's basically a 10+10 stretch, or an unlimited with a 5" rear stretch. If I did it again, I'd probably stretch the rear 9" to match scrambler length. It's just barely long enough to sleep in, (I'm 6') though I haven't done that yet, since it's much more comfortable for me to put up the tent and use the Jeep for storage and a cooking platform.

Are you sleeping on the rear floor or on a platform? With the sleeping platform I think it will be ok but probably not ideal. You can always have something larger, longer, bigger, stronger but you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. A stock CJ8 has too much in the butt in for me.....and a CJ8 with the rear axle moved back to the cj7 position would have a little bit too much wheelbase I think.....117ish with no front stretch.

What did you use for a top?

Got any pictures?

Mine has a 4.0L, but it's fairly anemic here in CO. If you want an auto, a 5.3L/auto combo out of a trailblazer or silverado would do the trick nicely, but I prefer a stick, and the 4.0L is much better for that. I'm going to stroke the 4.0L this summer and see how that does.

Yeah, Colorado is tough on engine selection for sure. I live down in Durango and I regularly see trips to over 11-12000 and it is HARD on engines....

I like manuals also, but I think I would be in a situation where I would want a crawler box to get the gearing ranges I would want. I do think there are some things that an automatic can do that a manual has a really hard time doing. Everything I own is manual, the Audi, Dodge, Willys, and my old ford back on the ranch. The 6l80 has a LOT going for it in my opinion.


As for your desire for 3/4 ton axles that I was seeing early on, it sounds nice, but for a smaller vehicle, and particularly if you're building more for exploring than hard core rock trails, it's a little overkill, and kinda defeats the point of wanting to keep the vehicle narrower. I'm running a D44 rear and a TJ D30 front. A non-disconnect D30 out of an XJ would be a little stronger (High pinion, reverse rotation IIRC) but if you stay at 4:10, the ring an pinion is plenty strong anyway. Some high grade axle shafts are good insurance if you're rough with things, but I've been down some REALLY nasty trails (Or up in the case of Pritchett canyon!) and I've not had any breakage. (I'm not making youtube videos, I'm just running the trail to get somewhere.) I've run both a 242 t-case from an XJ (with the Full Time 4wd mode) and a 241 Rubicon case with 4:1. I like the 242 enough that I'll probably put it back in soon. 4:1 isn't enough for the really nasty stuff, and I miss the full time 4wd mode.

While I agree that the larger axles are boarding on overkill this vehicle will be getting tires in the 37-40" range. Think of it more as a hardcore rock rig that will see expedition use instead of the other way around. My Dodge has been on 39s for years and it daily driven, works great.

What size tire are you running with your D30/44 combo?

I too am a fan of the 242 transfer case. With the long wheelbase I really think I want the ability to run front wheel drive for digs. The 242 can be modded to have full time low but using the center diff like that is pretty hard.

In the end, it's a 3700lb jeep... You're not going to tow 8000lbs with it, and if you're building it huge then there's no point to wanting to keep it smaller, and you may as well start with a 2500 suburban and blend on a removable blazer top.

3700lbs! I hope it turns out that light!

I'm not looking to tow all the time, it is just nice to be able to hook up to something if you have to.

A burb is too big I'm looking for the perfect size....chasing unicorns again I know. I honestly don't think that the wider axles and big tires get in the way THAT much. For me it has always been about the body getting in the way either being too wide of having too much rear overhang. Take those issues away and I think you would REALLY have something. The truck axles with the high backspacing wheels should only end up being around 80-81" outside to outside. The 6"+ backspacing really sucks the overall width down. A TJ axle with normal 8" wheels is going to be about 74-75" wide probably. New JKs are pushing 80" with aftermarket wheel and tires.

As an alternative, I'm in the process of putting a scrambler back together that I made a YJ frame for. The orig CJ frame was toast. If you find a good deal on a YJ, you can order a fiberglass or aluminum Scrambler tub, find another YJ frame and put them together and it works out really well. Stock Scrambler tops fit, modern-ish YJ interior and driveability, good ride if you keep the lift height down to 2.5" or so, and the ability to have a very "Classic" looking jeep if you put a CJ nose on it. That said, I got the top on my TJ stretched 5" to fit by a guy in Denver. He did an AWESOME job, and I really like it, so don't be afraid of a little top work!


Not a bad idea at all, I just think the CJ8 is a little too long. Got any pictures of what your building?

I am afraid of top work, not the 1st one, but the 2nd or 3rd after you hit it a few times!