Looking at getting a MTB-help me decide.

[Christophe Noel]

It's a common misconception that a cyclocross bike is a contrived platform to make a cyclocross course that much harder. Fact is, cyclocross courses are too fast and too unusual for any other bike to work. Cyclocross is about technique, and that technique is really not easy to master. You don't just roll up to an 18" wood barrier, dismount at full speed and remount at full speed without a lot of learned skill. It's just not possible to do it on a mountain bike with the same efficiency. Plus, a proper cyclocross course has multiple run ups that require shouldering your bike and there's no easy way to do that on a mountain bike.

Think of cyclocross as rally car racing. Sure, when you see the road, you might think a trophy truck would be the best platform, then a tiny little Citroen comes flying down the course at 90mph. Same as 'cross.

To appreciate 'cross you have to know of it's beginnings and maybe torture yourself in a race to fully get it. It's a thing of beauty and without a doubt the first form of off road bicycle racing ever. The Belgians were racing in the muck and goo decades before Gary, Tom and the boys took their training wheels off.

 

[fairweather]

Why in the hell would you ride a road bike in the mud

It's fun...acceleration, speed, nimbleness etc...

and it ain't a road bike. I can get 44s on my x bike, never do that on a roadie. Though I have road slicks as well, do both with mine, it's very versatile platform, you don't have to race it.

Riding down without the up is very unsatisfying, I like to ride fast (relatively) through all types of terrain. Watching Levi, Wiens etc ride uphill is way more inspiring than watching anyone go down, races aren't won on the downs (unless it's a DH course, of course).

What do you do in the spring for a road ride when it snowed overnight? Throw on the 44s and go.

 

[EricBirk]

This has been an interesting thread! I'm going to see if anyone I know here has a SS that I can try. As I mentioned before I'm a roadie and have not kept up with the MTB development. I see the weight race has hit the dirt now, when I starting riding a light road bike was just under 20lbs!

Yeah sorry for the total thread jack hahaha.

It's a common misconception that a cyclocross bike is a contrived platform to make a cyclocross course that much harder. Fact is, cyclocross courses are too fast and too unusual for any other bike to work. Cyclocross is about technique, and that technique is really not easy to master. You don't just roll up to an 18" wood barrier, dismount at full speed and remount at full speed without a lot of learned skill. It's just not possible to do it on a mountain bike with the same efficiency. Plus, a proper cyclocross course has multiple run ups that require shouldering your bike and there's no easy way to do that on a mountain bike.

Think of cyclocross as rally car racing. Sure, when you see the road, you might think a trophy truck would be the best platform, then a tiny little Citroen comes flying down the course at 90mph. Same as 'cross.

To appreciate 'cross you have to know of it's beginnings and maybe torture yourself in a race to fully get it. It's a thing of beauty and without a doubt the first form of off road bicycle racing ever. The Belgians were racing in the muck and goo decades before Gary, Tom and the boys took their training wheels off.

I dont understand why any other bike wouldnt work. A hardtail with a 4" fork?
ahhhh dont say its just like rally racing, I love WRC!!

I definately respect it from the history standpoint as well as the difficult standpoint. Without it who knows if the sport would have evolved as much as it has so fast in the last few years.

It's fun...acceleration, speed, nimbleness etc...

and it ain't a road bike. I can get 44s on my x bike, never do that on a roadie. Though I have road slicks as well, do both with mine, it's very versatile platform, you don't have to race it.

Riding down without the up is very unsatisfying, I like to ride fast (relatively) through all types of terrain. Watching Levi, Wiens etc ride uphill is way more inspiring than watching anyone go down, races aren't won on the downs (unless it's a DH course, of course).

What do you do in the spring for a road ride when it snowed overnight? Throw on the 44s and go.

It is a road bike! hahaha
I would definately buy a cross bike as a commuter, just a bit tougher than a road bike.
"Riding down is very unsatisfying" I beg to differ

I think what I need to do is get out to one of the cross races here and watch these guys!

 

[Christophe Noel]

I dont understand why any other bike wouldnt work. A hardtail with a 4" fork?
ahhhh dont say its just like rally racing, I love WRC!! !

The efficiency of cyclocross is relative to technique and how the rider and bike work together. When you dismount for barriers as an example, you do so at a brisk speed, reach down for the top tube to lift the bike over the barrier and then remount. A mountain bike top tube is pretty low usually. For shouldering the bike, a mountain bike frame is so tight you can't properly get it on your arm. Plus, my racing bike is 17 pounds. Shouldering and lifting a 21 pound XC bike would be tough. Lastly, a cross course is usually built with sections of speed (not always). Getting a cross bike up to 25mph is way easier than a mtb.

It truly is like WRC. Just as guys say WRC courses are contrived to accommodate the limitations of a WRC Citroen, a cyclocross course is designed to max out the potential of a cyclocross bike. You could probably race a WRC car on some paved circuits just as you could a cross bike. You can take a WRC car offroad, but not rock crawling, just like you can rip singletrack on a cyclocross bike, but you won't be bombing Whistler on it. Comparing WRC to cyclocross is pretty spot on.

And not to continue the hijack, a cyclocross bike can make for a really ideal bike for many people who would otherwise assume a mountain bike would be best. For those who like to ride the road, don't like aggressive technical off road and have access to miles of fire roads, gravel roads, mild singletrack and paths, a cyclocross bike is awesome. I use my cyclocross bike a couple days a week to get into the woods to put in a session of brisk miles away from traffic. They're great bikes.

 

[EricBirk]

The efficiency of cyclocross is relative to technique and how the rider and bike work together. When you dismount for barriers as an example, you do so at a brisk speed, reach down for the top tube to lift the bike over the barrier and then remount. A mountain bike top tube is pretty low usually. For shouldering the bike, a mountain bike frame is so tight you can't properly get it on your arm. Plus, my racing bike is 17 pounds. Shouldering and lifting a 21 pound XC bike would be tough. Lastly, a cross course is usually built with sections of speed (not always). Getting a cross bike up to 25mph is way easier than a mtb.

It truly is like WRC. Just as guys say WRC courses are contrived to accommodate the limitations of a WRC Citroen, a cyclocross course is designed to max out the potential of a cyclocross bike. You could probably race a WRC car on some paved circuits just as you could a cross bike. You can take a WRC car offroad, but not rock crawling, just like you can rip singletrack on a cyclocross bike, but you won't be bombing Whistler on it. Comparing WRC to cyclocross is pretty spot on.

And not to continue the hijack, a cyclocross bike can make for a really ideal bike for many people who would otherwise assume a mountain bike would be best. For those who like to ride the road, don't like aggressive technical off road and have access to miles of fire roads, gravel roads, mild singletrack and paths, a cyclocross bike is awesome. I use my cyclocross bike a couple days a week to get into the woods to put in a session of brisk miles away from traffic. They're great bikes.

All good points.

 

[fairweather]

It is a road bike! hahaha

Touche, hombre...lol

 

[Cackalak Han]

Eric, got one for ya. I'm racing my singlespeed Fixed gear full rigid road bike in a cyclocross race this fall. How do you like them apples?

 

[EricBirk]

Eric, got one for ya. I'm racing my singlespeed Fixed gear full rigid road bike in a cyclocross race this fall. How do you like them apples?

oye I dont know which way to turn with you guys! hahaha

 

[Cackalak Han]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRZOa_E9Qs8"]YouTube- Cyclocross: An hour In hell[/ame]

Seems like half of them were SS.

 

[Wander]

I see we've headed into CX land..cool! I've raced cross and it was the longest 45 min of my life! Extreemly hard, painful and FUN. I've seen MTB's at CX races, especially in the entry catagories but the MTB's just don't work as well as a CX bike. CX bikes should be inexpensive but the carbon fiber world has entered CX and upped the prices at the top levels, but the CF benefit's aren't as big in the mud as on the road so a cheap aluminium bike can do just as well.

I have no idea if this is true but the story I've heard on the origins of CX is that it started in Belgium-where it is still a HUGE sport and orginiated with the guys riding to work in the mines over the muddy lanes and as things often do, it turned into a race. The courses mimic the sand/mud/grass/hills/barriers (farm fences/stone walls) that are found in rural Belgium and Northern France. As we all know Europe was very poor and the only thing that many people could afford to get to work and market was a bicycle. The wars left the roads in a terrible state so the conditions where rough. Add the overcast, cold, wet conditions of Belgium and Northern France with the hard man miners and you've got a CX race. At some point the pro road racers took to racing CX in the offseason to maitain their form for the Six Days on the tracks (big money makers) and the up soming season.

You have to love a sport in which beer is an essential element. Many of the trappist breweries of Belgium brew special beers for the CX season. Beer, frites and cross-are a perfect combination.

I could see a single speed but I don't know if I'd want to ride a fixie in a CX race. Not having a freewheel to rest on the downhills and position the cranks for the tight corners would be tough. You would get props from the crowd and racers though!

 

[Christophe Noel]

I should point out, that video short is from the Cross Crusade series in the Pacific NW. That's its own brand of cyclocross. Same sport, but it is cloaked in a goofy vibe that's one part World Cup, two parts Burning Man.

I moved to Belgium in '93 to race cyclocross and raced either full or partial 'cross seasons in Belgium through 1996. That's the holy land of cyclocross with legions of fans who know the sport inside and out yet have never swung a leg over a bicycle. Wander got it right with the origins. Shortly after WWI, the Belgians got tired of just picking turnips and working in the coal mines and started racing bicycles en mass. These dudes were a new brand of tough guy. The French called them "Flahute." These hard men of cycling needed a way to keep fit in the brutal, cold, short days of winter in Belgium. So, they devised a way to use the local pastures and farm roads to create courses that could clobber racers for an hour. This became a perfect spectacle for the locals who didn't mind standing in the cold for an hour to watch the action, and it was free. Then someone brought a cow bell. Someone else brought a trombone. It didn't take long and spectators had ringed the courses with frite stands and started passing around the genever gin and beer. Just as Wander mentioned. It became more than just tough guys riding in circles. It became part of the culture. With that came brutal competition to win the hearts of the frozen spectators.

My 'cross coach in '95 rode cyclocross with a young Adri Vanderpol, one of the best 'crossers of his era. He told me, "The cyclocross course seeks the weak and you cannot hide on a cyclocross course." So true. You can't draft. You can't lolly gag in the pack. The cold finds you. The mud finds you. It's a full hour of pain with the taste of lung and cow poo in your mouth.

Awesome.

 

[Wander]

I thought I'd share on of my favorite Cor Vos photo's

Lars Boom soloing to a win, check out the conditions.

 

[Christophe Noel]

That's a sweet photo.

I miss racing in Belgium. At one of my first races a pair of chubby old guys approached me and said in broken English "We're betting money on you, so do good." I got creamed. Repeatedly. Finally after two months of beatings, I hit the podium. Those two old guys found me, handed me a beer and said, "We've bet on you every race. Good to get some of our money back." I ended up staying with one of those old guys and his wife for three weeks. Neat people. Fantastic sport.

 

[Wander]

Cool story!

 

[Cackalak Han]

That's a sweet photo.

Ok, so what's next? Track cycling? Unicycles?

I'm actually hoping this velodrome gets built by me so I can set up my Steamroller for the track. It's the one side of cycling that I haven't participated in yet. Looks fun.