Looking for a "survival rifle"
- Thread starter adrenaline503
- Start date
'Couple o' thoughts...
Not to get into a home defense gun debate, but thought I'd give some points to consider. I used to want a .410 pump shotgun, thinking that with a .410 you don't have to worry about 'shooting through walls', whoever it's pointed at ain't gonna know the caliber, and a pump has an outstanding detering effect.
However, my former supervisor runs a gun training ranch for competitive pistol, concealed carry classes, home defense training, and even does SWAT-type close-combat training for US and international police forces. He's changed my views.
IF you have to have a shotgun, .20 gauge has a lot better selection of rounds for home defense than .410. .12 ga is too much power and too much recoil.
Pumps have a great detering effect, but deterence isn't the best approach. If someone is in your house, shoot to kill. (my words, not his).
Pistol calibers are great for home defense, but no-one is as good with a pistol as they think they are, so his suggestion for the perfect home defense gun is a pistol-caliber carbine (with a red-dot sight). A carbine offers more accuracy than a pistol and more precision than a shotgun. Also, pistol-caliber carbines are shorter than shotguns, so are a little more friendly indoors.
Personally, I'm looking to get a Hi Point carbine in 9mm. However, it's so ugly I'll probably have to get an ATI stock for it. Wish I could afford the Beretta...
Oh, and a shameless plug: I've got a Savage .22/.20 ga. (as described above) I'm looking to get rid of. I mail ordered it from a Sears catalog a million years ago, and it's still in excellent shape. If anyone is interested, pm me.
Not to get into a home defense gun debate, but thought I'd give some points to consider. I used to want a .410 pump shotgun, thinking that with a .410 you don't have to worry about 'shooting through walls', whoever it's pointed at ain't gonna know the caliber, and a pump has an outstanding detering effect.
However, my former supervisor runs a gun training ranch for competitive pistol, concealed carry classes, home defense training, and even does SWAT-type close-combat training for US and international police forces. He's changed my views.
IF you have to have a shotgun, .20 gauge has a lot better selection of rounds for home defense than .410. .12 ga is too much power and too much recoil.
Pumps have a great detering effect, but deterence isn't the best approach. If someone is in your house, shoot to kill. (my words, not his).
Pistol calibers are great for home defense, but no-one is as good with a pistol as they think they are, so his suggestion for the perfect home defense gun is a pistol-caliber carbine (with a red-dot sight). A carbine offers more accuracy than a pistol and more precision than a shotgun. Also, pistol-caliber carbines are shorter than shotguns, so are a little more friendly indoors.
Personally, I'm looking to get a Hi Point carbine in 9mm. However, it's so ugly I'll probably have to get an ATI stock for it. Wish I could afford the Beretta...
Oh, and a shameless plug: I've got a Savage .22/.20 ga. (as described above) I'm looking to get rid of. I mail ordered it from a Sears catalog a million years ago, and it's still in excellent shape. If anyone is interested, pm me.
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
Firearms handling refresher.........Part II: Shotguns..........
...........…and Ammunition Selection for Safety
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...........…and Ammunition Selection for Safety
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I bought my son a Rossi Trifecta for christmas. single shot break open action with 22lr, 20 ga, and .243 barrels. All together cost me a few dollars over $300. Gives you the chance to get comfortable with a few different calibers and a caliber for every type of game. Of course a ruger 10/22 is a great gun, but you can't leagally go after big game with it.
On the other hand I keep a .40 s&w semi for home defense, and the wife has a .357 s&w wheelgun. We have several different rifles and and shotguns for shooting and hunting. My best suggestion to you would be to call around to some local ranges and see if they have guns they rent on their ranges so that you can get some trigger time before you make an investment.
On the other hand I keep a .40 s&w semi for home defense, and the wife has a .357 s&w wheelgun. We have several different rifles and and shotguns for shooting and hunting. My best suggestion to you would be to call around to some local ranges and see if they have guns they rent on their ranges so that you can get some trigger time before you make an investment.
Shotguns are hard to beat. A Remington 870 Express can be had on sale for $250 or so and short stocks and short barrels are readily available. It will be dead nuts reliable. A shotgun of some type should probably be your first purchase. After that, get a Ruger 10/22 with a cheap scope.
I have a Savage/Stevens model 67 that is cheap, reliable, and perfect for throwing in the back of a truck. No fancy wood or metal there! I've seen them used for $150 or so. No longer available new though.
Pistols are great as well-A .45 ACP has plenty of zip for any self defense issues, and are easy to carry with you. Not so great for hunting, but then realistically, you are more likely to have problems with other humans, than need to hunt for survival.
After you have shot at least 1000 rounds of 12 guage, and 5000 .22 rounds, then get a real rifle. Hard to go wrong with .30-06.
I have a Savage/Stevens model 67 that is cheap, reliable, and perfect for throwing in the back of a truck. No fancy wood or metal there! I've seen them used for $150 or so. No longer available new though.
Pistols are great as well-A .45 ACP has plenty of zip for any self defense issues, and are easy to carry with you. Not so great for hunting, but then realistically, you are more likely to have problems with other humans, than need to hunt for survival.
After you have shot at least 1000 rounds of 12 guage, and 5000 .22 rounds, then get a real rifle. Hard to go wrong with .30-06.
calamaridog
Expedition Leader
An 870 in 20 gauge with a short barrel would be hard to beat for all around versitility.
Ridgewalker
Adventurer
Bulldawg said:Sounds familiar...
Meet the first gun I could call my own, Savage 24C Camper:
Identical-24C even with the black elastic shell holder! I'd better check my truck! You haven't been in Colorado lately have you?
Nope, mine is still there.
1leg
Explorer
My .02
If your only going to hunt small game like Rabbit and squirrels and Coyotes, I would recommend a Ruger 10/22. A shot gun with the right ammo would do fine also. For self defense a rifle in the small confines of a tent or auto would be difficult to handle I would suggest a pistol. In an attack you don't have time to set and aim a rifle.
1 thing to consider is what states you will be taking the gun into. Some guns are illegal in California for example.
I have a old sears mossberg 22 semi-auto(I need a clip). and a 22-250 tekka my coyote gun. I don't take any guns unless I plan on hunting. However I'm considering a pistol for defense when camping. Maybe a 380 or 9m
If your only going to hunt small game like Rabbit and squirrels and Coyotes, I would recommend a Ruger 10/22. A shot gun with the right ammo would do fine also. For self defense a rifle in the small confines of a tent or auto would be difficult to handle I would suggest a pistol. In an attack you don't have time to set and aim a rifle.
1 thing to consider is what states you will be taking the gun into. Some guns are illegal in California for example.
I have a old sears mossberg 22 semi-auto(I need a clip). and a 22-250 tekka my coyote gun. I don't take any guns unless I plan on hunting. However I'm considering a pistol for defense when camping. Maybe a 380 or 9m
adrenaline503
Explorer
So after a lot of research and everyone's help here I think I have it narrowed down. As much as I like the small packing size and weight of the collapsible models, I don't think that is the direction I want to go. Starting off with a .22 seems to make the most sense. I would much rather be able to put a few thousand rounds though a gun than worry about the cost of ammo. I assume a well placed .22 round is far better than a crappy shot in a larger caliber. Plus, my wife could get pretty comfortable with a .22 as well. The Ruger 10/22 seems to be the best value, and since I am totally incapable of keeping ANYTHING stock, it should be fun to mess around with. My other purchase would be an 870, 20 gauge, short stock and barrel. Having used shotguns (not this type) in tactical courses with the CG I am quite confident in the ability of these weapons, and my eventual proficiency. I really like the combo guns, the savage is a beautiful model, and someday maybe I will get my hands on one. As far as protection IN my vehicle, I don’t really feel that is needed at this point. Having shot the 9mm many many times, I know that in an emergency situation, wielding a handgun in a vehicle with a loved passenger is not something that I would feel comfortable doing. Stomping on the gas seems like a far better option. Like people have mentioned, staying out of trouble is the best way to stay safe. If anyone else has any suggestions keep them coming.
S
Scenic WonderRunner
Guest
.22's are great fun! Get one! I'm still using a Remington semi auto .22 that I learned on with my dad when I was 7 years old.
Searching around the Remington site I found this 870.......I like it. Especially the weatherproof coatings and extra round easy storage.
Model 870™ XCS Marine Magnum..........
XCS (Xtreme Conditions Shotgun) Marine Magnum will serve and protect in the most extreme conditions on earth. For even more rugged endurance, all internal metal parts are coated with electroless nickel, and the trigger group is plated to resist fouling and oxidation.
Searching around the Remington site I found this 870.......I like it. Especially the weatherproof coatings and extra round easy storage.
Model 870™ XCS Marine Magnum..........
XCS (Xtreme Conditions Shotgun) Marine Magnum will serve and protect in the most extreme conditions on earth. For even more rugged endurance, all internal metal parts are coated with electroless nickel, and the trigger group is plated to resist fouling and oxidation.
Ridgewalker
Adventurer
adrenaline503 ,
I think you have come to a very good conclusion. Be safe with that semi-auto. My best friend in high school accidentally shot and killed himself with an unloaded .22 semi-auto.
I think you have come to a very good conclusion. Be safe with that semi-auto. My best friend in high school accidentally shot and killed himself with an unloaded .22 semi-auto.
adrenaline503
Explorer
Scenic WonderRunner said:.22's are great fun! Get one! I'm still using a Remington semi auto .22 that I learned on with my dad when I was 7 years old.
Searching around the Remington site I found this 870.......I like it. Especially the weatherproof coatings and extra round easy storage.
Model 870™ XCS Marine Magnum..........
XCS (Xtreme Conditions Shotgun) Marine Magnum will serve and protect in the most extreme conditions on earth. For even more rugged endurance, all internal metal parts are coated with electroless nickel, and the trigger group is plated to resist fouling and oxidation.
Yup, that one is perfect.
adrenaline503
Explorer
Ridgewalker said:adrenaline503 ,
I think you have come to a very good conclusion. Be safe with that semi-auto. My best friend in high school accidentally shot and killed himself with an unloaded .22 semi-auto.
I will definately be careful. I will probally take a gun safety class just to brush up.