Looking for first expedition/overland rig

[bloodycape]

Not sure where to put this, but I thought I put it here. So it seems the expedition bug has hit me and I want a semi-compact expedition rig. I probably won't be getting it for a good while, but it would be nice to start planing for what to get. My budget goal for now would be around 4k depending on factors. For now I think I want to explore the Americas(all the way up to Alaska and down to Amazon).

The better rig options would be getting a Disco1(maybe II) or LC80 and pretty much call it a day. However, I feel those maybe a bit large for my taste, not to mention the fact no diesel option available, which means MPG that's not the best. Not sure about the LC, but I would think maintenance on the Disco may get a bit pricey? Never been in the Disco, but I have been in a few RR and thought they were a bit large. I would have thought the Disco would be about the same size seeing as it can hold 7

I really do like Land Rovers, but the Range Rover is a bit large, and I the Disco maybe also. That lead me to taking a look at the Freelander. I really like the size, but it lacks a low range, which is a downside, but for a person new to expeditions and what not it could be okay? Then there is also the fact the motor and tranny(at least in the N.A. models) are the weak point, so I thought maybe do a engine swap with something that has a lower gear(at least lower vs stock) while still giving me decent MPG and power. I have seen a few local Freelander sans motors in great shape going for under $4k, and I thought could be a good project?

The next option would be the Nissan Xterra, I have seen in on a few lists as a recommended choice, and I like them. My parents for almost 16 years had Pathfinder(got a 93 new in 93), that I really like. The first gen Xterra seems more the same, and I am a bit familiar with the VG33 motor as the Pathfinder had the VG30, which I felt could be taken to hell and back(plus the VG series was their go to V6 for all their cars globally for years). If the Xterra is anything like the Pathfinder it would be just as much fun on road as it was off-road(though our Pathfinder was a 4x2, so I was limited to what I could do off-road). I kind of want to get the 4cylinder model(unless 4x4 can't be paired with it) as I MPG would be pretty solid, and with a few tweaks give it decent power(after all the KA was also used in the NA 240sx). Would this be a good car for a first timer, I know Nissan kind of markets it as a do everything car, but is it really that, or do I have to do a bit of a work to do it as one of the list Scott Brady made said the front portion was kind of it's weak link. On a related note would a Frontier be a better model to start with vs xterra?

The other option I thought of was the Jeep Cherokee. Not to fond of the interior, but it seems like its a good base to start it. I am also not sure if the 2dr or 4dr would be better to start with as I have read mix reviews on that. Not sure how good the 4.0 is fuel wise, but I do know they are also built fairly well. I know these should be easy to build and there should be a good amount of parts available. The only downside I see is the fact they were offered with a few 4x4 options, and finding the model with the full time 4wd maybe a bit hard to find in my local. Not really a downside, but I feel if I want to go Jeep, I should be looking at the Wrangler. I do like the Wrangler, but I do like the idea of sleeping in the bed, and only the unlimited models really offer that, but that's out of my budget.

Is there any other suvs in that class/size I should be looking at? Thank you.


btw I do like how there is a huge community, events and support for both Jeep and Land Rover, which is pretty cool. Not sure how the Xterra is in that regard, I would think there would be some, no?

 

[Hj61 12ht]

If its just you, traveling by yourself then I guess a discovery would be large enough, but I reckon a landcruiser 80 is about the smallest vehicle that you can get away with (bigger than disco or rangie).
When going away camping in my cruiser, it's quite often very full, even when traveling solo. (60 series).
I've had landrovers, series2, 3, 110 etc, they take a lot of tweaking to keep them running well. A Disco won't be any different!
Smaller Japanese 4x4s dont really do any good, in my kind of use. They are usually a bit too low powered and small.
Borrow a disco or cherokee for a weekend and put your camping stuff, food, recovery gear, tools, fuel, clothes in it and see if it fits!
If you want to sleep inside then a 80 is probably the way to go too...

 

[bloodycape]

I will I think mostly be traveling myself, or at the least with one person. If I can fit most of my stuff in a backpack about 65-70 liters, I am sure sure I can fit all that plus a tent and a small bbq in the vehicle. I really like the size and nimbleness(for an suv of that era and class) the Pathfinder we had offered. I found it to be a truly fun car to drive and I want a 4x4 that is would offer similar size, and acceptable nimbleness, while still being capable off-road. Part of me things the Xterra maybe that car, but another part of me says Land Rover Freelander, or if the D1/2 isn't that large be a better option. Then there is another part of me then thinks Cherokee could work as it can be had in a 2dr(which may or may not be a better off-road platform), and parts are cheap, at least here in the states. I think the Jeep name is what pulls me towards it. Hmmm, not sure where to start.

Is there a site that compares size and dimension difference between some of the cars I am looking at, including the LC and LR/RR cars? Thanks.

 

[Hj61 12ht]

Cooking equipment, food and water 150L volume, recovery gear and tools 60L, clothes and bedding 60L, Camping equipment 60L
X2 there is two of you, that's about say 600L, the back of a cherokee has about 1000L of space? So it's over half full allready!

If you can fit into a smaller car and get away with it, then you should be saving fuel and money, but for me, my landcruiser is the smallest I can get away with...

Last weekend we went to an island on my boat, 2hr drive towing boat with 4 people in the landcruiser and enough food and fuel and clothes and beer for the three days, anything smaller and we would have needed to take 2 vehicles...

 

[bloodycape]

Well I have a tent that has held two people and two dogs no issue, and that folded up and fit in the trunk of a Civic with no issue, but where we camped the roads where good.

I do like the idea of a Land Cruiser, but most of the one available within my budget would be the LC80, when I kind of prefer the LC60. Plus power is a bit anemic for its weight, and mpg could be better. The Freelander some how seems like it would be the right size for my needs, but whole bad engine is a real turn off. How much bigger is the Disco or RR vs the Freelander?

 

[Hj61 12ht]

You will have different prioritys than me...
Interested to hear what diesel powered 4x4 are available over there in your price range?
Perhaps a Mitsubishi delica or Toyota hiace van would be the best bet, especially if you are sleeping inside?
Probably don't see many jap 4x4 vans over there...

I'm guessing you are looking at petrol motors, not a problem as there won't be far between gas stations in the US?

If you can live with a Nissan pathfinder / xterra / frontera or whatever they are called then go for it!
Would not go for a freelander over any of nissans, just for reliability reasons.

I personally would not consider any 4x4 over here in NZ without a solid front axle and large turbo diesel, but that's just me... I like to effortlessly cruise up hills fully loaded and still only use 12L/100k!

 

[reece146]

There is no such thing as turbo diesel anything in North America unless dealing with full size North American pick-ups.

 

[4D55 Performance]

There is no such thing as turbo diesel anything in North America unless dealing with full size North American pick-ups.

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If you are just traveling by yourself or one other person I would recommend looking at the Jeep Liberty CRD. I had a CRD Liberty and it consistantly returned 28-30mpg on the open road and 24mpg city. With a 3" Frankenlift and some 31" tires it was a very capable offroad vehicle. It had no issue keeping up with Jeep Rubicons. It was a slick little ride. You may also want to look at the 1995-2000 Montero. While it will only get low twenties on the freeway way, the mpg's are actually very good for a vehicle of that size. Be aware that there are 2 different monteros. You will probably want the Montero, not the Montero Sport, but they are both great rigs. If I had to choose between the Montero and the Liberty, I would sacrifice MPG for the extremely well built Montero. The Liberty's build quality is kind of cheap, it is very similar to the Cherokee build quality. On the other end of the spectrum the Montero is so over built it is ridiculous




.

 

[bloodycape]

The Liberty CRD would kind of cool, but not within my budget, but thank you. The Montero seems a bit large for my taste, and at that size I'd rather go with a Rover or Cruiser. A friend in middle-school/hs mother had a Montero Sport, but I honestly wasn't fond of it.

As for the Pathfinder I really liked it, but not really sure if the Xterra(which is a bit like the gen 1 Pathfinder) would be the right rig for me or be capable enough for newbie. I really like the idea and capability of the Range Rover or even Land Rover. I would get one, but the size and mpg are not for me, which has be looking at the Freelander :\

 

[4D55 Performance]

The Liberty CRD would kind of cool, but not within my budget, but thank you. The Montero seems a bit large for my taste, and at that size I'd rather go with a Rover or Cruiser. A friend in middle-school/hs mother had a Montero Sport, but I honestly wasn't fond of it.

As for the Pathfinder I really liked it, but not really sure if the Xterra(which is a bit like the gen 1 Pathfinder) would be the right rig for me or be capable enough for newbie. I really like the idea and capability of the Range Rover or even Land Rover. I would get one, but the size and mpg are not for me, which has be looking at the Freelander :\

I don't want to scare you away, but Range Rovers and Land Rovers are the most undependable vehicles on the road. If you are looking at buying one, make sure it has a new head gasket. They have a tendency to fail every 80K miles or so. There really isn't a cure for this issue. The head gaskets can fail at anytime with out warning. They are also notorious for tranny issues, suspension issues, tcase issues, and electrical issues. They are great vehicles while they are running but it is not of matter of if they will break down, but it is a matter of when.

The Freelander is a bit more reliable than the Range Rover and Land rover, but it is not what I would consider off road capable. It is basically a car. You would be better off getting a Subaru.

 

[4x4junkie]

Is there any other suvs in that class/size I should be looking at?

Ford Explorer maybe? (specifically the '91-'94 models)

Many people overlook these SUVs for this type of use, yet their underpinnings consist of numerous half-ton truck components (the rear axle in particular, and to a good extent the front as well). The 4.0L V6 engines are dirt-reliable, the automatic transmissions a bit less so, but do hold up well if fitted with an external (separate) cooler (stickshift is the way to go IMO. No issues on that end).
Has way more room inside than a Cherokee (and a frame too), and lots of parts availability due to it's Ranger pickup lineage. Mileage is usually low-mid 20s on these rigs (or 17-18 in combined driving). No diesel was offered though. Both 2-door and 4-door models were made.

Some great resources on the 'net for these rigs:
www.explorerforum.com
www.therangerstation.com


I drive a Bronco II myself (Explorer's predecessor) and have found it a very fun little rig, which might also be worth looking at if you were thinking of something Wrangler-sized (the BII's stock drivetrain is not as robust as the Explorer's, though most everything can be swapped between them if you're up for it).

 

[bloodycape]

Not really a Ford person, and have driven an Explorer or too, but didn't like the the way it drove. I am also a GM person, but with that said my cousin as the Blazer Xtreme and had a roommate who had an S10 step-side. The 4.3 is a very good motor, but fuel economy wasn't the best(it is V8 based right?) from what I was told. I wouldn't mind a S10 ZR2, but they don't offer it in a crew cab, and a Blazer ZR2 is a bit hard to locate.

I guess I will check out the Cherokee more, and cross shop with with the Xterra, and Blazer ZR2(if they can be found for a fair price). Unless,there is another truck/suv I am missing?

 

[Will Riggs]

Forgive me in advance for being brutally honest...

Staying within a 4k budget and finding some of the vehicles you are looking at is going to be difficult in itself. Much less finding a range rover, land rover or land cruiser that isn't a complete P.O.S. within that price range. You'll end up sinking a few thousand after purchase into one of those just to have peace of mind on reliability and safety, or at least I would.

If I were you and on a similar budget, I'd be looking into a few of the vehicles you've mentioned as well. Specifically the cherokee and blazer zr2 (if you can find one in that price range) and I would add to your list a 93-98 grand cherokee zj. I may be biased on this being a jeep owner, but you can't deny the bullet-proof nature and overall reliability of the jeep 4.0 and chevy 4.3 motors. The zr2 is basically ready to roll with the addition of some mud tires, and the difference in initial price for either of the jeeps mentioned would allow you to do some decent mods to get you going in the direction you want.

Just my two cents, but I've got less than 3k in a grand cherokee total. It's lifted on 33's, with a bumper I made and a 12k winch. It goes where I need it to go and hauls gear for my lady and I.

 

[bloodycape]

Really got me thinking about the Cherokee. Not sure if the 2dr or 4dr would be a better platform to start with. Rear accessibility isn't that key for me. Then again part of me also think the Xterra could be another affordable base to start of it.

Is the 4runner worth a look? Never was too fond of them(specifically the interior), but they also seem affordable and easy to work it. I know they aren't using the same setup as the LC, but how close do they come in stock from to the LC?

 

[4D55 Performance]

To me you need to make a list of attributes you want from an overlanding rig. I am certain my list is much different than yours. Here were my requirements:

1. Seating for 7+ "must have"
2. 4WD with low range tcase "must have"
3. A second row seat capable of seating a 6'5" adult "must have"
4. 22mpg from a gasoline engine or 28mpg from a diesel, because diesel would cost more. "must have"
5. A vehicle with amazing dependability. "like to have"
6. Room to fit 33" tires with out lifting the vehicle and a rear locker "like to have"
7. A vehicle with low miles "like to have"
8. I needed it to be capable of going 80mph on the interstate "like to have"
9. Needed to be capable of doing 4+ trails "like to have"
10. My budget was $10K "must have"

While very few vehicles met these qualifications, I did have a few to pick from. Some had a little give and take but the vehicles that were the best options for me were the the Mitsubishi Montero and the Toyota FJ100. The FJ80 was way to small and they are too underpowered to go 80mph on the freeway, not to mention they only get 13mpg. The Disco also met many of those criteria, but it came up way short on the mpg's as well. The only other option that came close was the tahoe/suburban but they are not refined enough for my taste. I went with the Montero because it seemed to have stronger components where it counted. It also had more leg room and got better gas mileage.

Make a list of what you "must have" and what you would "like to have" and go from there. Make a list, then look for the vehicle, not the other way around.