Looking for my first camera.

[photobri]

all depends on what you are using it for

I'm looking to finally pick up a good camera and not the cheap 100 dollar Walmart special. From what I've read the Nikon d3100 is a go to camera, everything thing you need.

Bt I'm new to all this. No idea what I'm looking for, just want a great camera to take great pictures and something that'll last for years of useable. Can you help guide me?

You can take great pictures with anything from a $7000 pro SLR to an iPhone. All depends on what you are shooting and what you to use it for. The most important thing (equipment wise)is your lens/lenses quality. Many professionals still use manual lenses produced decades ago. For the price of a 3100/3200, you can probably get a used D7000, or canon equivalent. Check out a photo website such as 500px.com to see what other's are using for similar things that you want to use it for.
Or just get what you want and can afford. The worst camera is the one you left at home.

 

[Honu]

to the OP with the question as someone who makes his living with a camera and has done so for a long time even back in the film days to now get what you like in your hand and what makes you happy really a D3100 or a M4/3 or even the new Fuji are all amazing camera all have pros and cons and all are going to give you great shots once you learn how to use them !
the club thing sounds good ? but also take all of it with a grain of salt and choose a modern camera ! not a old one if you can ! why go back ?
the Olympus OMD is nicer than a D3100 and can take better photos ? but its more money so it should hahahaha

another thing is if you get into a camera look at what your friends have so you can share lens and flash and knowledge with each other a bit ! like if your buds have nikon then nikon might be a good way to go ?

a lot might depend on what you want to shoot as mentioned ?
kids running around a DSLR is nice ! I love having a tilt screen waiting for pro bodies to do tilt screens !
camping and stuff I dont want to hump a DSLR around to heavy and big when it does not need to be and tilt screens can be great so M4/3 could be nice
travel camera to keep on you daily the new Sony RX100 soon to be replaced with a new one ? so prices will fall the new one is going to have a tilt screen
but if I was new to photography and wanted a camera to be with me all the time and did not want to be buying a bunch of glass and stuff that might be the camera !
like someone else said the camera that is with you is the one you want !


based on you just want nice photos !!!
if someone just wants nice photos I would say get something like the sony while you learn ! it will be with you more often is easy when you want and can deliver stunning photos !
quite a few of my pro friends have them as their camera of choice for daily carry !
I am waiting for the new one and will get my wife one ! they are awesome !


if you love photography and get the bug then start to decide what to get ? a DSLR or a M4/3 or viewfinder style (not real viewfinder) cameras like the Fuji X series
3 choices of cameras that will all do pro level work
those 3 are like having 3 nice vehicles
think of a fixed up Toyota LC100 or a nice Jeep fixed up or a LR fixed up each is personal each might do something a bit dif than the other but all are capable and all have a personality

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_rx100.shtml

 

[ywen]

Ahh but the Oly EPL5, with a low price tag (kit for just north of $500) and small body dimension. It has the same sensor as the OMD.. This is a no brainer camera for anyone stepping out of the P&S..

DSLR with it's optical viewfinder, large size, and poor image quality (for the low cost models) is just a crappy upgrade path for P&S shooters.

 

[Honu]

Yeah forgot that one that and a kit lens and one fast prime would be a insane good travel kit

last year shot half my jobs with OMD and a few others I know have been doing so and some have added Fuji instead of the OMD route

Once M4/3 gets quicker low light focus my dslr is gone !
As I say I hope the D600 is my last dslr

Back in the late 70s early 80s it was you cant use a 35mm you need a med format
Then in the 90s it was use a 35mm you dont need that med format
Then in the 2000 it was digital is not as good as film and won't replace it!
2015 is going to be you dont need a DSLR I feel at least for those on the front lines mirrorless will be the way to go IMHO


Still love that little sony some of the stuff my buds have been doing it is insane good

Ahh but the Oly EPL5, with a low price tag (kit for just north of $500) and small body dimension. It has the same sensor as the OMD.. This is a no brainer camera for anyone stepping out of the P&S..

DSLR with it's optical viewfinder, large size, and poor image quality (for the low cost models) is just a crappy upgrade path for P&S shooters.

 

[john101477]

My statement was factual... the D3100...

I also did not recommend the D3100. I will admit that in many ways the newer M4/3 cameras are making huge jumps in ability and image quality. Even at Hig ISo many of the images look pretty good in comparison. But it is still not BETTER than many DSLR's in image quality. Even the people doing the test say it. They have to weigh in on the size and weight of the camera to give it points over the quality of many DSLR's.
"The E-M5 can't completely overcome the light capture disadvantage brought by its smaller sensor, compared to APS-C, but it reduces it to the point that it's irrelevant for almost all practical purposes. At which point we think its size advantage, in terms of both body and lenses, will outweigh that difference for most uses." ~DpReview.
Also getting down to brass tacks, if you want to make comparisons, IF m43 cameras can manage to design better focusing ability that does not hunt so bad then maybe they will have a chance of stomping DSLR's. Until then, your factual statement is still False!
Conclusion - Cons

Focus tracking distinctly unreliable
Small controls sometimes awkward (especially with cold/gloved hands)
No in-camera correction of CA (which can be problematic with 12-50mm kit zoom)
Default JPEG settings a bit keen to blur detail away
Several useful features hidden in obscure and confusingly-named menu options
Otherwise useful HLD-6 grip makes some controls more awkward to reach
No warning given that focus is locked during high-speed shooting

 

[ywen]

Ok john youre right.. Lol. D3100 is an amazing cam.. I recommend it to the op

 

[Honu]

not trying to be a jerk

a working pro delivers the best product
hobbyist tend to pixel peep and argue on DPReview about whats best when pros are out shooting


a OMD compared to even a MKIII or a D800 for most clients wont/cant notice the difference and many working pros have proven this ?
last year over half my work was shot with a OMD and the other half FF gear clients were happy I would not give it out if it was not as good !

had a buddy do some shots on both his OMD and D800 and had lay people and pros pick out shots they liked better and it was a mixed bag all printed around 16x20 or so !
talk about funny when some togs thought something else

why would a pro pull out speedlights when we know big pack lights are best ! I mean who would use anything other than hensel or pro foto of elinchrom etc..
OH wait some guys have shot with einstein lights or use just speedlights !! dont they know they are not as good ! OH NO !!!!



no its not perfect neither are other FF cameras ?

in bright light its actually in some ways quicker than FF !
the tilt screen a huge bonus
being whisper quiet another huge bonus
AND
unlike a DSLR it can never back focus ! which is a all to often rant about DSLR and micro adjusting the lens and such !!! DSLR are far from perfect or micro adjusting a lens would not be a option !


again please read as not being a jerk but way to many pixel peep and dont understand delivering a high end job to a client ! many THINK they need all this other stuff
again if a stock jeep gets you to the same spot or a one all decked out ? is one better than the other ? what if the fixed up one while maybe better on spec took $80 in gas to get there and the other took $50 cause of stock tires ? now whats better ?
what if one cost an extra $10K in parts and have better specs yet for many trips is not needed ? is it still better and more important who cares if they both get to the same spot !!!!
put a new driver in the fixed up one and a pro in the stock what will go further

I would rather get to the spot with 10K in bank and pay less for gas
so in this case the so called less spec model is the better choice

why would any one own a DSLR when a med format backed camera is so superior !!!!

a full time working pro wont put their names on the line and deliver sub par product ! but makes you wonder when you have folks who have a D800 and Med format back and OMD or fuji or sony why they often enough reach for that fuji or OMD or sony half the time these days !

I also did not recommend the D3100. I will admit that in many ways the newer M4/3 cameras are making huge jumps in ability and image quality. Even at Hig ISo many of the images look pretty good in comparison. But it is still not BETTER than many DSLR's in image quality. Even the people doing the test say it. They have to weigh in on the size and weight of the camera to give it points over the quality of many DSLR's.
"The E-M5 can't completely overcome the light capture disadvantage brought by its smaller sensor, compared to APS-C, but it reduces it to the point that it's irrelevant for almost all practical purposes. At which point we think its size advantage, in terms of both body and lenses, will outweigh that difference for most uses." ~DpReview.
Also getting down to brass tacks, if you want to make comparisons, IF m43 cameras can manage to design better focusing ability that does not hunt so bad then maybe they will have a chance of stomping DSLR's. Until then, your factual statement is still False!
Conclusion - Cons

Focus tracking distinctly unreliable
Small controls sometimes awkward (especially with cold/gloved hands)
No in-camera correction of CA (which can be problematic with 12-50mm kit zoom)
Default JPEG settings a bit keen to blur detail away
Several useful features hidden in obscure and confusingly-named menu options
Otherwise useful HLD-6 grip makes some controls more awkward to reach
No warning given that focus is locked during high-speed shooting

 

[Honu]

let me ask you a couple things

budget ?

do you want it to be with you a lot ? like in a small pack all the time with you ? or is a larger heavier one OK if its a bit cheaper ?
or fit in a jacket pocket ? or maybe have to carry a larger bag when you go out ?

do you want wider angle get more of the mtns in the shot or better zooming in to get that bird in the tree
or a combination ? or not really sure ?
or want the ability to get super wide and super zoom and changing a lens is OK ?
or give up a little on both sides and not bother with extra lens !

do you take pic in the dark much ? as in need a decent flash or the ability to add a decent flash ?

are movies important feature ?

is manual control a important feature ?

also read this
http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/12/17/deconstructed-photography-two/

I'm looking to finally pick up a good camera and not the cheap 100 dollar Walmart special. From what I've read the Nikon d3100 is a go to camera, everything thing you need.

Bt I'm new to all this. No idea what I'm looking for, just want a great camera to take great pictures and something that'll last for years of useable. Can you help guide me?

 

[Honu]

a good article worth reading

http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/04/08/system-choices-1/
and
http://blog.mingthein.com/2013/04/10/system-choices-2/

 

[haven]

Some stupendous photos using a Sony RX100 in this link. http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/12/17/deconstructed-photography-two/ Thanks, Honu. p.s., Sony is rumored to be ready to announce a second generation RX100. Tilting LCD, hot shoe, WiFi are among the improvements. Lens and sensor stays the same.

 

[john101477]

not trying to be a jerk

a working pro delivers the best product
hobbyist tend to pixel peep and argue on DPReview about whats best when pros are out shooting


a OMD compared to even a MKIII or a D800 for most clients wont/cant notice the difference and many working pros have proven this ?
last year over half my work was shot with a OMD and the other half FF gear clients were happy I would not give it out if it was not as good !

had a buddy do some shots on both his OMD and D800 and had lay people and pros pick out shots they liked better and it was a mixed bag all printed around 16x20 or so !
talk about funny when some togs thought something else

why would a pro pull out speedlights when we know big pack lights are best ! I mean who would use anything other than hensel or pro foto of elinchrom etc..
OH wait some guys have shot with einstein lights or use just speedlights !! dont they know they are not as good ! OH NO !!!!



no its not perfect neither are other FF cameras ?

in bright light its actually in some ways quicker than FF !
the tilt screen a huge bonus
being whisper quiet another huge bonus
AND
unlike a DSLR it can never back focus ! which is a all to often rant about DSLR and micro adjusting the lens and such !!! DSLR are far from perfect or micro adjusting a lens would not be a option !


again please read as not being a jerk but way to many pixel peep and dont understand delivering a high end job to a client ! many THINK they need all this other stuff
again if a stock jeep gets you to the same spot or a one all decked out ? is one better than the other ? what if the fixed up one while maybe better on spec took $80 in gas to get there and the other took $50 cause of stock tires ? now whats better ?
what if one cost an extra $10K in parts and have better specs yet for many trips is not needed ? is it still better and more important who cares if they both get to the same spot !!!!
put a new driver in the fixed up one and a pro in the stock what will go further

I would rather get to the spot with 10K in bank and pay less for gas
so in this case the so called less spec model is the better choice

why would any one own a DSLR when a med format backed camera is so superior !!!!

a full time working pro wont put their names on the line and deliver sub par product ! but makes you wonder when you have folks who have a D800 and Med format back and OMD or fuji or sony why they often enough reach for that fuji or OMD or sony half the time these days !

Interesting to start off with not trying to be a jerk.. and then follow it up that way but... First I never said that the D3100 was the best or even recommended it... what I did say is that the m43 system recommended does not produce the BEST images, I never even said the quality was not good or even great in some aspects. Read the comment fully with out tossing in a bunch of garbage and making assumptions. Second, did I not say that the m43 would do nearly everything that most people need? I think I did... hmmm. There are reasons to use all sorts of different equipment and no one camera or lighting system or backpack is going to be perfect for everyone or even every job. I like speed lights for their weight and recycle time at lower power and sync ability. With a few of them you can pull off some amazing lighting tricks.
While I am not exactly what you would call a Pixel Peeper, I do not talk on Dp at all but find them useful for the reviews just as I do Thom Hogan and many others. I do believe in using the right equipment for a job. If the Oly works for you, great have at it. Funny, that "Working Pros" deliver the best product. The people at the top of the game also use the best for the specific job. If that is wildlife photography, for which I make a majority of my money, then most times the m43 is inadequate in to many aspects. If you shoot street photography, photojournalism, abstract, and even some forms of studio and portrait work the m43 might work just fine for you.
I always love the "I'm the professional so I know" mentality of some people when they really have no clue who they are talking to on the net. It is not really photographer specific, as it happens in a lot of different industries, usually from those trying to establish themselves as dominant with in the industry. There is always a bigger fish...

To the OP, I stand by what I said, If you choose Nikon, D5200 or better. 95% of people will be just as happy with an m43 and because of the Oly lens line availability, it only makes sense. I personally prefer a aps-c sensor over the m43 but that is a preference and DSLR for my needs fits better. Ask your self what you like to shoot. The best way to choose a system is to find people who shoot what you like, find what they are using, and then find a camera store that will let you handle the camera to find what fits you the best.

Unsub from this thread for obvious reasons. If for some reason you have a question just PM me. More than happy to help people out when I can

 

[Honu]

no not trying to be a jerk ? sorry you feel that way ?
and unsub from the thread ? come on !!!

what you said
Funny, that "Working Pros" deliver the best product. The people at the top of the game also use the best for the specific job.
and what I said
a full time working pro wont put their names on the line and deliver sub par product ! but makes you wonder when you have folks who have a D800 and Med format back and OMD or fuji or sony why they often enough reach for that fuji or OMD or sony half the time these days !

and I am talking about the folks at the top of the game !


I know you never said the D3100 was best or recommended ? did I even mention it ?

the best images would come from a med format back camera that is say $60K
you said the M4/3 recommended does not produce the BEST images ? what is the best image ?
yet even in nature stuff nobody is going to want to take the BEST camera out in the field and use a med format back !
just like most folks dont need a DSLR anymore and a M4/3 or RX100 is the better choice and will deliver BETTER shots in the end !
just like a pro DSLR will deliver better nature shots than a Med format back !!!! because of what is being shot !


again I shoot them use them own them etc..
and yes a DSLR is best for wildlife or sports
but many want a mix of shooting and the DSLR unless you are going out to SHOOT is not always the best many dont want a bag full of gear ?
but how can you use speedlights !! they are not going to produce the best light !!! you saying that proves my point about using the tool for the job !
why most pros use both speedlights and larger bare bulb flash units and even studio type strobes all depends on what I am doing and power needed

 

[john101477]

Couldn't help myself I had to see what was written.
The sarcasm was what skewed your not being a jerk remark... Anyways

and I am talking about the folks at the top of the game !

I suppose in some ways this is subjective in what you consider top of the game in some ways because the most marketed/popular does not always translate to the best. But lets suppose in some ways it does.
What does Scott Kelby,Moose Peterson,Michael Mauro, Art Wolfe, Doug Gardner, and Buck Shreck all have in common? Yeah they pretty much stay in the top DSLR range for 35mm. Why? because these cameras have the ability to help them create the best images for their needs, unless they are jumping into portraits with a Med format. With the exception of some "gimick" shoots most commercial photographers that have high end customers also use the top end DSLR's like Deborah Sandidge, Chase Jarvis, Kelby again... just to name a couple. Travel Photography is a mixed beast with the top guys using just about everything but light and easy is generally a necessity. I have seen guys like Trey Ratcliff who has the only HDR to grace the Smithsonian to my knowledge, use both a D800 and Sony NEX.

No matter how you look at it right now, DSLR is the dominate camera used by professional photographers because it gives them greater leeway in producing the best images for their clients, and that is fact.

the best images would come from a med format back camera that is say $60K

It's pretty dang good, even a 40mp Hassleblad smoked the D800 for tonality.

yet even in nature stuff nobody is going to want to take the BEST camera out in the field and use a med format back !
just like a pro DSLR will deliver better nature shots than a Med format back !!!! because of what is being shot !

No, the Med Format is still king in nature photography because of the tonality and dynamic range. You are correct that most people will not haul a Med format out into the field but there are a handful that crazy, they also produce amazing work, Jason Odell and Peter Lik. The difference often times is of course price. Most people, Myself included, are reluctant to buy a camera that costs as much as a new vehicle with out a lens. The D800E is one of the hottest landscape cameras out because of price and ability.

many want a mix of shooting and the DSLR unless you are going out to SHOOT is not always the best many don't want a bag full of gear

I agree 100% Most people are generalists, heck most self proclaimed photographers are generalists, with only a handful being good at shooting multiple genre. Myself I am better at certain genre that others and struggle with some things. I can light and shoot portraits with no problem but I am not a wedding photographer. I tried a few early on and well... yeah, not my gift lol. Anyways I have my cameras with me almost all of the time. I have considered cameras like the Fuji and the NEX and even found myself excited about picking up the newest Samsung the other day, but for the most part, if I can pack those I can pack a DSLR.

Photography is changing fast and while I personally do not feel that m43, and "most" mirrorless cameras have quite gotten there yet, I would not be surprised at all to see this change, maybe even soon. It was not that long ago that the fights between Film Vs Digital was huge. Heck even our cell phones have advanced worlds better. That said, if a maker came out with a camera that was the size of a milc that had better noise control at ISO's above 3000 (I hate noise), had a dang fast and accurate AF, 100% Viewfinder (not LCD), FPS above 8fps, and a really great, sharp lens selection... I would probably sell everything and start over lol. So far they are lacking a couple of things but it is getting closer. I have a feeling that the 2 top DSLR manufacturers are going to step up their selves though because of they don't, they are going to get buried.

how can you use speedlights !! they are not going to produce the best light !!! you saying that proves my point about using the tool for the job !

Not all photography is a job ... BUT lighting is a tricky thing and I think it falls into that subject of what people are willing to carry into the field as well as pricing and ability. Speedlights are capable of shooting things that lighting like say, those from Alien Bees, are not able to shoot and while the light output at those settings might be lower than needed it is easier, lighter and cheaper to connect multiple speed lights to a single trigger than to buy just one of the monstrosities you mentioned. I actually use more reflected natural light but always have at least 1 speedlight in my kit. However I do know of a few amazing photographers that haul lighting out because it is the only way to get those specific stop motion shots.

I know you never said the D3100 was best or recommended ? did I even mention it ?

I am sorry I responded on this in a post quoting you, it was not directed at you.

Did you just mention a P&S? lol ok, IDK the camera so not gonna get into that, the "promo" wording sets a pretty large order but so did the Sigma SD1 lol.

Anyways I did unsub but will probably check for responses, I like a GOOD debate, but find all to often that people start getting rude instead of being practical and realistic.
I am shutting down for the day to spend a little more time with the kido. Have a Happy Fathers Day

 

[ywen]

Dude the op mentioned d3100.. I just gave him some natural alternatives based on pricing.. Some of the options I provided are superior to the d3100 and other cheap entry level dslrs. That's all I said.. Last thing I want to get into is pixel peeping circle jerk.. Op not looking for thee additional insights either

 

[Honu]

I would rather like each other for our love of photography and off road camping I really am not trying to be a jerk just giving another side of things
and I do use the OMD and other cameras so I have real world experience

would be better in person so you can see my smile and I am sure your passion for your work ahahahh writing on a forum things get lost for sure

I really am not trying to be rude sorry if it comes off that way ? I am offering a side that is the push back if you will

also I am not a nature tog that is dominated by the DSLR
and I do know you and I both know the Luminous landscape folks are not the moose folks
nature should be more scenic and wildlife the two often take dif gear but can cross over


I shoot people and some products and architecture the only nature I shoot is my dog or a bird or fish camping ?
I used to shoot underwater for 15 years so I did do it but underwater is a whole other animal
this was my nature in underwater (bad scan)

I have shot some commercial stuff on my OMD even for mega million dollar companies


also never said you personally were a DPreview peep just those are the typical folks that argue stats rather than output is more what I meant and sadly that info keeps flowing around most pros dont care about the best they care about the best tool which it sounds like we are on the same page


pick one of your fav photos from 7 years ago ? a new OMD would be better technically than pretty much any 7 year old camera but does not make the photo any less
a lot of my great stuff was with the MKII



my work was in Architectural digest and conde nast travel and food & wine and other high end mags on a monthly basis my work graces some very high end homes also but I worked very private on most of that
I have a great shot of Gene Hackman pointing to the N on the USS Arizona how many people do you know to have been able to dive and take photos on the USS Arizona I can tell you pretty much NONE and there are quite a few great shooters that dont promote themselves and are unknown in some senses I was %100 word of mouth in the islands and folks liked it that way


one HUGE reason the DSLR still dominates is Glass ! most all of us have a ton of glass that we have and up until recently the only camera that could do all around work but those days are changing quickly


agree its not quite their yet ? but the 1D and MKII was not quite there yet but in 2001 or when the 1D came out I had two of them dumped my N90s and went digital ! when the 1DS came out got one and did not use med format anymore

M4/3 is more cutting edge for sure but mirrorless I feel is the future not M4/3 as much as mirrorless in general


on great photographers not sure if you know Bruce Dorn ? he is on this forum ? a very good tog for sure and one of the better all around shooters I would say today and inventive on top of it he has been on that big trip the guys are doing around the world ! cant wait to see what he brings back cause he does do incredible movie material also !
that is one thing I would like to get into more is doing more video and some time lapse stuff for my own enjoyment

again sorry if I come across jerky ! I really am not trying to like you I am just passionate and I do speak from a ton of experience being a photographer my whole life
when in Maui I made a good living doing photography ! so I do think we both have things to share

I do think we are more on the same page then off it