Looking for some Jeep specific information. Thank you

[DetroitDiesel]

Hello I am fairly new to this site and came here to gain knowledge for adventure camping. I come from a Subaru background and want something with more off road capability out of the box. I have settled on a Land Cruiser 80 or a WJ Overland. Both of those with a winch and some tires should take me anywhere I want to go. Now that I have been searching its harder to find what I am looking for than I expected. I am hearing about all the electronics problems in the WJ and a few other things and was starting to stray away from them. My plan with the WJ Overland would be to selec trac tcase swap it. Now I'm hearing that ARB is finally making lockers for the 44a and that has me curious for some real world feedback on the WJ.

I have found a nice WJ Laredo v8 selec trac and now that there are ARB lockers for the rear I could get a true rear locker instead of the quadradrive Overland. Would this be the route to take to avoid all the electronic issues and the computer controlled lsd and have a more simple but effective platform. The Overland has a slight lift and sliders and a few things for "off road" that come standard also. So how does this balance out? The Overland is about 1500 more than the v8 Laredo with Selec trac. Is that 1500 worth all the extras but also the fussy electronics? I would selec trac swap the Overland and a winch and tires. Is that a highly capable set up for moderate backcountry exploration. This isn't a rock crawler or see how many trails to go or anything like this. This is something more for camping/hunting/adventure trips.

My next question is about using an XJ for this same purpose. Obviously its smaller with no v8 and no lsd. However they are a dime a dozen on Clist with tons of mods and something blown so I could pick up parts and mods cheap. Its just me at 6'2 and my large dog. I want to be able to sleep inside the back. Is that happening or am I looking at a tight squeeze? Is a XJ with tires and winch just as capable as the WJ setup I was describing?

I have posted in the Land Cruiser forums looking for similar advice on buying a LC and have gotten some good info. The more I dig into them the more complex they seem. I just want basic but capable. Ive been told by people who own XJ that I would hate it its too small. Thats why a LC 80 is in my thoughts its big enough for anything. However owning BMW I now about the "luxury tax" that goes with owning a rarer vehicle.. Thats why I'm considering a basic WJ which there are tons and tons of around. Thank you for feedback from actual owners or people who experience.

 

[sseaman]

Having owned an 80 series LC, they were fantastic then they came out but most are showing their age now. They are solid, you know what you are getting and they won't let you down if you keep the up maintenance. I have been back and forth between Jeeps and Toyota SUVs for the last 15+ years and both have their places, really comes down to what do you want. I knew I would be giving some space and possibly reliability up when I got the new JK but top down, doors off was more of what I really wanted this time around.


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[SSF556]

DD....I would try to get the biggest engine you can get....more than likely you are going to be adding weight to the vehicle....people, dog, bigger tires, armor, camping gear....the V8 WJ will be able to keep up with traffic on I75.

The LC although an icon is a big vehicle with a limited engine. Yes it will get you there and in MI you do not have hills so that will help....but the LC is not a cheap vehicle to maintain especially an older one that has experienced MI winters.

 

[DetroitDiesel]

DD....I would try to get the biggest engine you can get....more than likely you are going to be adding weight to the vehicle....people, dog, bigger tires, armor, camping gear....the V8 WJ will be able to keep up with traffic on I75.

The LC although an icon is a big vehicle with a limited engine. Yes it will get you there and in MI you do not have hills so that will help....but the LC is not a cheap vehicle to maintain especially an older one that has experienced MI winters.

WJ V8 Decent shape 3 grand
Tires 800
Winch 1000
Locker if needed 1500
Tune up 500
Roof rack 200
Skid plates ??

Im pretty sure that will take me anywhere I am planning to go. Thats about the price of a clean locked stock 94 with 200k on it and who knows what repairs. Then upgrades plus the premium upkeep tax. Its getting clearer every time I go over the pros and cons.

 

[DetroitDiesel]

Is it better to buy one already modded and save money but who knows if the mods are done right and of what quality? Or is it better to buy one stock as possible? Then do the mods yourself and have warranties and receipts. Sometimes saving money up front can lead to problems down the line. Thank you

 

[bearman512]

I am partial to Jeeps so take what I say with a little salt.
I would build an XJ first if it is just you and the dog. I am the same height as you and can sleep in the back however a RTT will get you a bunch more room.
First choice would be later model XJ with an aftermarket 4" lift 33x10.50 tires and a Ford 8.8 swap will get you just about anywhere you need to get.
Second choice would be a 96-98 5.2 ZJ Laredo with a 4" lift 33x10.50 tires and a Ford LS 8.8 swap the Ford 8.8 can be found with 3.73 gears and LS for $400 or less.. This is by far the cheapest and best bang for the buck.
3rd choice is any V-8 WJ they are known for many electrical problems but tolerable. Do the lift and add the 8.8.
I built my current ZJ with a HP 30 from a XJ and an 8.8 LS from a 98 Explorer.

 

[larrydallas]

You mention you want to go adventure camping. Depending on what you plan to tackle, I'm not sure I would worry about getting lockers on a WJ, especially if it has Quadradrive. The truth is, unless you get quite aggressive with a lift you won't be able to get bigger than 31" tires on a WJ. I find clearance is usually the challenge for me. Make sure to get skid plates and sliders - this is a must. Plan on a 3" lift if you want to fit 245/70/17 tires (that is the largest that will fit without trimming at 3" of lift and also the largest that will fit in the spare tire well). Going to 4" of lift or more can get expensive and creates headaches. If you are getting a winch on the front plan on a new bumper ($). There are plenty of known issues with WJ's, but electrical issues with Quadradrive and vari-lock axles isn't one. It is a mechanical system, so no worries there. Definitely do research on www.wjjeeps.com and jeepforum.com (WJ section). I like my WJ, but I plan on upgrading to a LC100 in the future.

The biggest issue for me is tire size (clearance) and reliability. A WJ will last if maintained properly but still nothing like a Toyota in that regard. The gas mileage is miserable on both, but at least the LC has a bigger tank. As far as cost is concerned, I can see where the LC would be more for you, but WJ aftermarket support isn't great compared to the XJ. My WJ can easily tackle any blue OHV trail and any forest road around. Great for camping but not a rock crawler or true expedition rig. Loaded with gear I am lucky to get 12 MPG offroad, and figure under 10 MPG if in Low gear. That's a range of under 200 miles on a tank. That hurts, and like I said several times, clearance is my biggest issue.

 

[larrydallas]

Just realized I don't have a signature on here. I have a 2001 WJ V8 with Quadradrive, 3" of lift, 245/70/17 General Grabber AT2 tires and have done slight bumper trimming. I have the Up Country skid plates and JCR rock sliders, Rola roof rack. With a 3" lift, plan on springs, shocks, extended bump stops, longer rear sway bar end links, beefed up adjustable track bar and steering stabilizer. In my opinion that is the bare minimum for a 3" lift. Make sure you have a double cardan front drive shaft, otherwise it won't last 100 miles on any lift. Going to 4" of more lift changes the geometry enough to require new control arms and a host of other challenges/costs. Like I said, www.wjjeeps.com has great vehicle information, but if you want to get into mods visit www.jeepforum.com.

 

[DetroitDiesel]

I am partial to Jeeps so take what I say with a little salt.
I would build an XJ first if it is just you and the dog. I am the same height as you and can sleep in the back however a RTT will get you a bunch more room.
First choice would be later model XJ with an aftermarket 4" lift 33x10.50 tires and a Ford 8.8 swap will get you just about anywhere you need to get.
Second choice would be a 96-98 5.2 ZJ Laredo with a 4" lift 33x10.50 tires and a Ford LS 8.8 swap the Ford 8.8 can be found with 3.73 gears and LS for $400 or less.. This is by far the cheapest and best bang for the buck.
3rd choice is any V-8 WJ they are known for many electrical problems but tolerable. Do the lift and add the 8.8.
I built my current ZJ with a HP 30 from a XJ and an 8.8 LS from a 98 Explorer.

Thank you for that insight. I really like the XJ look and always said I wanted one but wasnt sure if it can be a good camping rig for someone 6'2. My gf had one in college and swears I would think its tiny. I can find tons and tons of different XJ and ZJ on craiglist. I even saw a lifted manual ZJ. So I know I can get parts at dirt cheap prices off blown up rigs on craiglist. So on the XJ theory do I want the absolute nicest cleanest stock one I can find to start tearing into or a already built up one? Also for the price I can save in parts I can get a stroker. Thank you

 

[DetroitDiesel]

Thank you larrydallas. That is also a lot of good insight. I am trying to avoid lifting and this and that as much as possible. For the winch I would do a receiver type. Thats why I'm targeting an Overland model WJ specifically because it has a factory 1" lift and some skid plates or some armor type things. I dont see ever needing bigger than 31" tires, Quadradrive, winch. However like you said the aftermarket is thin and expensive. The reason I mention locker is because for the longest time ARB did not offer anthig for the 44a and now they do. So a V8 Laredo with selec trac and an ARB locker is better than quadradrive but more costly. The overland has tons of electronics and gizmos. I have found a couple limited with the HO and QD. I like XJ just bought they would be small based on others opinion never actual experience.

 

[WrenchMonkey]

Bearman's advice is good, I'll just add a couple points:
.
Some of the later XJ's (the non-ABS, I think) came with a 29-spline 8.25 rear axle, that's plenty strong. Then the only advantage to the 8.8 swap is the potential for disc brakes.
.
You mentioned locking the Grand's 44a. I don't have first-hand experience, but the aluminum 44 has a very bad reputation. I'd ditch it before I added bigger tires, much less a locker.
.
Yes, the XJ is cozy. With the rear seat folded, you've only got about 50-52" of flat floor. Remove the rear seat and build a platform, and you may see 5 feet. Unless you remove the front passenger seat, you'll be sleeping in the fetal position. I'd definitely do a tent and save the rig for gear.
.
Robert

 

[DetroitDiesel]

Bearman's advice is good, I'll just add a couple points:
.
Some of the later XJ's (the non-ABS, I think) came with a 29-spline 8.25 rear axle, that's plenty strong. Then the only advantage to the 8.8 swap is the potential for disc brakes.
.
You mentioned locking the Grand's 44a. I don't have first-hand experience, but the aluminum 44 has a very bad reputation. I'd ditch it before I added bigger tires, much less a locker.
.
Yes, the XJ is cozy. With the rear seat folded, you've only got about 50-52" of flat floor. Remove the rear seat and build a platform, and you may see 5 feet. Unless you remove the front passenger seat, you'll be sleeping in the fetal position. I'd definitely do a tent and save the rig for gear.
.
Robert

Thank you Robert.

How can I tell if it has the rear axle you are talking about on the XJ?

How much more room would a WJ give me over the XJ folded back seats. Im 6'2 and dam sure not sleeping in the fetal position.

So could I build something with the passenger seat removed for my dog to ride on while in transit that then becomes an extension of the bed? Is that legal to have no passenger seat? Just a platform? Majority of the times a tent is fine but sometimes I want to crash at a rest stop or something like that.

I see you have the 8.1 burban. Look on the Cleveland Clist. Theres a stupid deal on one.

 

[ih8philly]

Thank you Robert.

How can I tell if it has the rear axle you are talking about on the XJ?

Just take a peak underneath and compare the shape of the pumpkin.
http://www.jeep4x4center.com/knowledge-base/jeep-axle-differential-identifier.htm

 

[WrenchMonkey]

How much more room would a WJ give me over the XJ folded back seats. Im 6'2 and dam sure not sleeping in the fetal position.

Not much different, I bet. A few inches, not a foot, and nowhere near enough for you to stretch out in.

So could I build something with the passenger seat removed for my dog to ride on while in transit that then becomes an extension of the bed? Is that legal to have no passenger seat? Just a platform? Majority of the times a tent is fine but sometimes I want to crash at a rest stop or something like that.

I think that's a pretty cool idea. And the front seat goes in and out with four bolts, so it'd be easy to swap back and forth, camping vs commuting. And no legal need for a seat. UPS trucks are driver-only...

I see you have the 8.1 burban. Look on the Cleveland Clist. Theres a stupid deal on one.

Don't tell me that, I'm still kicking myself for overpaying for mine! I do love it though...

Just take a peak underneath and compare the shape of the pumpkin.
http://www.jeep4x4center.com/knowledge-base/jeep-axle-differential-identifier.htm

That'll tell you 8.25 vs Dana35, but not 27-spline vs 29. I'll try to pin down what year that changed. 96-97 maybe?

 

[WrenchMonkey]

Post #13 agrees, <96 is 27, 97+ is 29:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1007507