Looking to absorb some of the Jeep wisdom here

[Hopeless Diamond]

So, we're looking to start down the path with getting into a Jeep JK (my pocket book has a bad feeling about this...). Ever since she could drive, my wife has wanted a Jeep. With the typical life getting in the way, raising a family, dealing with growing kids car needs first, supporting elderly parents, it just wasn't practical. Well, those hindrances are mostly gone now so I'd like to finally get her what she's always wanted (OK, it's for me too). Of course, we'll see after time if it really is...

Ultimately it will be her daily driver, mainly grocery getter, misc errands, no consistent commuting. We'll also use it for exploring, and ultimately thinking we would haul it behind our F350 w/Hallmark for extended trips (phase 1000 of my plan). No rock crawling, but trips to Moab and area and lots of muddy overgrown logging roads would be normal. While she wants the look, she understands that form follows function, and things that get added are changed for a reason, not so it'll look cool sitting in a mall parking lot (of course no reason not to overdo things if possible).

What I'm hoping to get some help with are some to things to look out for as I'm searching. While I would love to start from scratch with an old CJ, drop a crate motor in it, and over build it, I just don't have the time or resources to start another project that will never get done. So looking to start with a good foundation, something she/we can be comfortable and safe in, and then improve from there.

Thinking I would start looking for 2012+, has the 3.6l V6 which seems to be a good motor, not hearing of any major short comings (I think the early 2012s had a head problem). JK or JKU, hasn't been decided, she's leaning towards the 2 door. Rubicon would be my choice, but people with them are holding on and asking some pretty pennies. Next choice in my book would be a Willys variant, while it doesn't have the D44 or lockers, it would at least have decent gearing for up to 35s. Beyond those options it seems what I'm seeing is mall crawlers, some with pretty low miles, where people went to a dealer, got the cheapest thing they could and then threw 35" tires on it with some cheap lift. These things probably wander more than a drunken sailor on shore leave and don't have enough power to go up a mountain pass empty.

What does it take to strengthen a D30 front end? If I did end up with a Sport or Sahara, presumably with the 3.21 gears, I feel I would need to re-gear and beef up things a bit. At least a LSD in the back and I would do a locker of some sorts up front. Axles? Tracbar? What else would I be looking at to make it sturdy.

I guess it comes down to is it worth it to hunt for the vehicle with the factory items (lockers, rock bars, all those "Trail Rated" add ons) that are good enough, or forgo that, get a base model and put on stronger, more specific after market parts (that I'll probably end up doing eventually anyway - I can't leave well enough alone, gotta tweak things).

I figure the people here have a lot of experience with these things and have a realist viewpoint of how a Jeep should be set up for mixed use. Thanks in advance.

 

[da10A]

As per your description, you are not kids anymore, therefore will most likely end up building your jeep intelligently.

My view on things now that I have more life experience, is that more is better, in the way that you might as well have something that you will most likely not need, than need something that you realize you'd like or need and end-up looking to trade your jeep for one with that missing equipment.

With this said, I would suggest a fully loaded 2013-on JKU ( 4 doors) Rubicon with 4.10 gears, dual top and stock tires or maximum 285/70-17. From there you could install a levelling kit and wheel spacers for looks and functionality.

Reasoning is that she will miss the space with a 2 doors. I've owned 2 YJs and a TJ in my youth and was missing that space. Wether it be for groceries, hockey equipment, large dog or anything else that need space... You can flip the rear seat on a 2 doors to gain cargo room, but it transforms the jeep into a 2 seater.... So forget about space for additional people like parents, kids or grand kids....

Being in the jeep crowd since the mid 80s, I can testify without a doubt that most people who end up lifting their jeeps, install 35s and up tires, add snorkles, roof racks and what not, always end up trading the vehicle for something more utilitarian, because they suddenly realize that their jeeps were more pleasant to drive and travel in when they were in stock form..... Since 2007, these folks have the chance to get back into the jeep world by getting into the 4 door version... Most times they do not repeat the mistake of overbuilding the vehicle and keep it close to stock, by adding stuff like spacers which costs a fraction of the price and makes it possible to return the vehicle to stock form within a few hours to regain the resale value and broader range of interested buyers.

Nothing wrong with building a jeep... Heck, I've done it with 3 wranglers and a Cherokee.... But I am just sharing the wisdom that came from those builds now that I've recently turned 50 and feel as wise as mister Miyagi from Karate kid... B-) wax-on wax-off danielson...😁

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[kojackJKU]

If your not rock crawling, then the rubicon is not needed, and a waste of extra funds that could be to use elsewhere. I have a 2011 sport unlimited. I have a leveling kit, with extra parts in the suspension. I run 285s (plenty of tire for what you are looking for), and you have no need to do any upgrades to the D30. That's for the RAWK KRAWLER crowd that wants to run 37s and hammer the living bejesus out of their rigs. For doing overlanding type travel with roads and mild trails, the d30 is FINE! There is a bracket to bolt right onto the jeep for flat towing behind your rig too! Resist to overbuild your rig. the aftermarket is a hell of a drug. I am fine with my lightweight plastic bumpers etc. IF buying new, I would get the sport unless you want all the creature comforts, add the 3.73s, LSD and be done. brake lock diff works great....Again, adding all these lockers and crap just adds complexity and headaches in the long run. My jeep has 185,000 on it now, more than half of that is off road in the backcountry here....I have yet to destroy a part etc....

 

[MOguy]

A dana 30 is fine for your needs BUT if you go with a Rubi TJ and 2.5 inch susp, a body lift you can have an extremly capable, reliable Jeep you won't be wanting to build again a few years from now if you get bit by the jeep bug. You will have lockers, you won't have to worry about re gearing. You can keep much of your suspension and all of your driveline. It would make for capable jeep stock and very very capable vehicle with a few modifications. The JKs are great too, I am just not as familiar with them.

 

[briboki]

Thinking I would start looking for 2012+, has the 3.6l V6 which seems to be a good motor, not hearing of any major short comings (I think the early 2012s had a head problem). JK or JKU, hasn't been decided, she's leaning towards the 2 door. Rubicon would be my choice, but people with them are holding on and asking some pretty pennies. Next choice in my book would be a Willys variant, while it doesn't have the D44 or lockers, it would at least have decent gearing for up to 35s. Beyond those options it seems what I'm seeing is mall crawlers, some with pretty low miles, where people went to a dealer, got the cheapest thing they could and then threw 35" tires on it with some cheap lift. These things probably wander more than a drunken sailor on shore leave and don't have enough power to go up a mountain pass empty.

This is how I ended up with a new JKU. All the used stuff was trashed and/or overpriced. Several used JKU's priced above what a new one cost. It was a joke. Only one's reasonably priced were 2012's with the known head issues. Anything badged as a Rubicon on the used market was even more overpriced. The new Rubicons were all loaded to the gills with leather / nav / etc. and I didn't feel like ordering one.

Anything that was modified had a spacer lift, 35's, and stock gearing. No thanks.

What does it take to strengthen a D30 front end? If I did end up with a Sport or Sahara, presumably with the 3.21 gears, I feel I would need to re-gear and beef up things a bit. At least a LSD in the back and I would do a locker of some sorts up front. Axles? Tracbar? What else would I be looking at to make it sturdy.

Figure out if you need lockers and the 4:1 tcase. If so just buy a rubicon.

Seems like the D30 is fine with reasonable sized tires. You can go crazy with sleeving it, truss, C gussets,RCV's, etc. If you're going to re-gear and beef up the D30 ... may as well put a D44 under the front? I'd hold out for 2012+ with 3.73 factory gears..

I don't rock crawl. I explore Colorado.

I made a short list of must haves:

3.73 gears
Rear LSD
Hard top
Tinted windows
Auto
Sport S package
Hydro Blue

Wanted the Willy's but it was a couple grand more. Found a dealer 30 miles away through USAA car buying program. He found exactly what I wanted within 2 days and had it transferred to his lot. It was like ~$500 more than what used ones were going for.

I purchased a set of Rubicon take off tires, a set of sport 17" wheels, and stock Rubicon rock rails on craigslist for ~$750. A set of TMPS sensors from Amazon for ~$50. In the winter I use the stock GSA street tires. For wheeling season the Rubicon KM's go on. I'm enjoying having two sets of wheels/tires.

I've been impressed with the stock Sport S offroad. The BLD and rear LSD feel as capable as the 2010 TRD Tacoma (rear locker and ATRAC), and my XJ with a rear ARB that I owned before. While the Tacoma had the locker and ATRAC, the JKU flexes a lot better. I don't baby the new JKU. I'll add a front traction device when the warranty is expired. Some sway bar disconnects and skids are on the to do list. The suspension is a little soft when loaded down but I don't want a lift. I'll probably order custom stock height springs. The 3.73 gears are nice with the stock sized tires. I prefer being deeper geared as I live in Colorado. I could see living with 33's and the 3.73 gears, no bigger though. The LSD has been nice in the winter.

If you find a used one use the VIN tool to check the build sheet. It will show gear ratio, LSD, etc...

http://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/...ountry=us&emailUrl=goToEmailForm%28%27R%27%29

Cheers

 

[kojackJKU]

Briboki, goto your jeep next time, get under it and get the number on the springs...there is a tag. maybe you have softer springs. You can upgrade to the higher spring rates and add airbags, you will be happy then.

 

[Hopeless Diamond]

Thanks for all the input, as expected, very sage advice

I agree, the 4 door is a better option for us, I think the 2 door is just a little tight for normal life for us. If this could be just a play vehicle, it would be a different story (which would mean that I won the lottery and all bets are off, it would be way overbuilt!).

I'm thinking we will probably end up in the used market. If I can find a Rubi for the right price, I'll probably go that route, although not holding my breath. Definitely has to be 3.73 gears at least, and Auto for WAF (Wife acceptance factor). Then it's matter of getting the right mix of creature comforts vs. price. She's coming from a VW Tiguan with everything so she's a little more spoiled for comfort than she thinks.

It seems mechanically they haven't had too many problems? Not running across any horror stories of engine/transmission melt downs so far. I should be good with a D30 as long as I don't go stupid on tire size. How are the brakes, adequate? Of course if I ever did get up into the 35s I would probably want (should) look into upgrading (still have the F350 with over 10klbs + towing mindset).

Briboki, thanks for the VIN tool, although I can't seem to make them work, at least on the VINs posted by the dealers around here. That's what I was looking to use so I can be sure of what's really on the lots. I really, really, don't like car lots. Dealing with some shiney shoed glad hander is not my idea of a quality time. Most of them have no idea of what the vehicle really is, especially when it comes to a used vehicle on different brand lot.

 

[MOguy]

If you go the Rubi route with TJ and I believe also the JK you will have 4.10s which would be much better if you want run larger tires on road and the 4:1 tcase for off road. I ran 3.73s with 33s on my TJ for a, while and didn't like it at all.

 

[da10A]

The TJ had 100 hp less... But as said, go Rubicon, there is that satisfaction of having the top of the line model. Automatics come with 3.73 with 4.10 as an option, therefore you can't miss with a Rubi. If you can stay reasonable in tire size, which I believe you will given your age and wisedom, 3.73s and 33s are pretty good on gas.
As far as brakes go, these are no European cars ( between my last jeep and the current one, I owned a Land Rover and a Volvo XC90) I believe the braking is acceptable in stock set-up, but keep in mind that the bigger the tires are, bigger is the impact on braking performance. Especially on an automatic without the ability to assist the brakes with downshifting. But it is a jeep..... Not a sports car.

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[MOguy]

The TJ had 100 hp less... But as said, go Rubicon, there is that satisfaction of having the top of the line model. Automatics come with 3.73 with 4.10 as an option, therefore you can't miss with a Rubi. If you can stay reasonable in tire size, which I believe you will given your age and wisedom, 3.73s and 33s are pretty good on gas.
As far as brakes go, these are no European cars ( between my last jeep and the current one, I owned a Land Rover and a Volvo XC90) I believe the braking is acceptable in stock set-up, but keep in mind that the bigger the tires are, bigger is the impact on braking performance. Especially on an automatic without the ability to assist the brakes with downshifting. But it is a jeep..... Not a sports car.

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auto maybe different than a stick. With a stick 5 spd 33s and 3.73s I couldn't get to 5th gear unless it was flat, or down hill. Off road I was riding the clutch allot. Gas mileage stock was about 16-20, after the larger tires it dropped allot with either the 3:73 or 4:56s with 33s. I picked up a couple mpg when went to 35s but I went through Ujoints and hubs faster. If mpg is an issue a wrangler may not be the best choice.


OP, wranglers are tight on space. If that is a concern and budget allows the 4door will offer allot more space.

 

[briboki]

I'm thinking we will probably end up in the used market. If I can find a Rubi for the right price, I'll probably go that route, although not holding my breath. Definitely has to be 3.73 gears at least, and Auto for WAF (Wife acceptance factor). Then it's matter of getting the right mix of creature comforts vs. price. She's coming from a VW Tiguan with everything so she's a little more spoiled for comfort than she thinks.

The 2012+ 5 speed auto w/ 3.6L is delightful compared to the 42RLE 4 speed w/ 3.8L. I test drove manual and auto Rubicons with the 3.8L and 4.10 gears, no match for the new motor. Many of the 2012+ Rubicons come with 3.73 gears and not 4.10's like the older ones. If I already had a JKU with the 3.8L I wouldn't necessarily dump it for newer, I'd just re-gear as deep as possible.

Briboki, thanks for the VIN tool, although I can't seem to make them work, at least on the VINs posted by the dealers around here. That's what I was looking to use so I can be sure of what's really on the lots. I really, really, don't like car lots. Dealing with some shiney shoed glad hander is not my idea of a quality time. Most of them have no idea of what the vehicle really is, especially when it comes to a used vehicle on different brand lot.

I plugged in my VIN and I got an error. Hopefully jeep will fix it. It makes looking at used ones much easier. There actually are a fair amount of Sports / Saharas with the 3.73 gears.

 

[Kmrtnsn]

If you can, try to find a 12 or newer Sport with 3.73s and a limited slip in the rear. For what you want to do, the 14 and newer Willys edition sounds to be right up your alley. Having a 13 JKUS that I bough as a clean slate and have set up my way, I would recommend that you look for a used Rubicon.

 

[goin camping]

My comments are aimed at a jeep that is good on road and very capable off road but not a rock crawler.

Sahara, May as well be comfortable with a few amenities. Leather, climate control and heated seats don't suck.

JKU, Having the room to haul people and things is handy.

Freedom top, Keeps the weather out but lets you pop the front part of the top to enjoy a great day.

3'73's & LSD, These two things will really unlock your off road ability. It is pretty easy to find a Sahara with 3'73's.

Rubicon tires and wheels take offs, Cheapest and easiest way to get very capable off road tires that won't murder your mileage.

Auto trans, For wife's daily use.

Since these jeeps hold their value so well. Don't be afraid to compare the used prices against new.

Go off road before you modify. You'll be surprised how well these things do in stock configuration.

 

[Kmrtnsn]

My comments are aimed at a jeep that is good on road and very capable off road but not a rock crawler.

Sahara, May as well be comfortable with a few amenities. Leather, climate control and heated seats don't suck.

JKU, Having the room to haul people and things is handy.

Freedom top, Keeps the weather out but lets you pop the front part of the top to enjoy a great day.

3'73's & LSD, These two things will really unlock your off road ability. It is pretty easy to find a Sahara with 3'73's.

Rubicon tires and wheels take offs, Cheapest and easiest way to get very capable off road tires that won't murder your mileage.

Auto trans, For wife's daily use.

Since these jeeps hold their value so well. Don't be afraid to compare the used prices against new.

Go off road before you modify. You'll be surprised how well these things do in stock configuration.

Plus one on the Rubicon take-offs, a great upgrade for a Sport or Sahara for well under a grand.

To add to this, a set of Rubicon take-off rock rail/sliders can be had for a couple of hundred bucks and they are CHEAP insurance against body damage. If you have a welder, or a friend with one, then you can get add-on rail/steps from Jeepswag.com for a song and take the factory sliders to a whole new level. Also, with the 2012 and newer you can armor the belly of the Jeep with a complete set of EVO skid plates for under $400.00.

Leather is all fine and well for the seats, I have leather in the Subaru but the Carhartt cotton canvas seat covers I have in the Jeep cannot be beat for off-road comfort, especially in the desert where I play.

 

[kenaero]

new vs used

When I was looking for a Jeep 4dr, I too started with the used market. Only of my previous vehicles was new. But with the same parameters as you, 2012 or newer, the price difference was so small it made very little sense to look at a used one. Landed up buying a Hard Rock because all the toys were already there and heavy rock crawling was not in the plans, light rocks maybeLOL, so that and some AEV stuff and I am happy, not finished but happy!!! We all know that you are never "finished".

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