Looking to build my first rig

[JLee]

"I don't want the extra weight" is a lot more believable than "excessive amount of electronics" and "unnecessary gadgetry." Thanks for clarifying!

For the record - the 4Runner Limited has rear airbags as an option. Given your preference for light weight and simplicity, I'm surprised you didn't buy a V6 4x4 and instead went with the fulltime AWD V8. I enjoy minimal road noise and a good sound system on both my daily commute and offroad travel, so it seems we've each chosen wisely in accordance with our preferences.

I do still find this absolutely hilarious:

With a $20k max purchase price, I researched long and hard, cross shopping [...] ~2008 Discovery LR3 [...] I did not consider the GX470 because of its relatively excessive weight and an excessive amount of electronics that can be expensive to fix or perhaps a annoyance in the back country.

2008 Land Rover LR3 4WD 4dr HSE Specs
Base Curb Weight (lbs): 5796

Lexus GX Reliability 100
Land Rover LR3 Reliability 58.7

Not seeing how the GX wasn't considered due to these mysterious excessive electronics and it's porkiness but an LR3 at damn near 3 tons empty and with a well-known penchant for reliability problems was in the running...but...anyway. You're happy with your choice, I'm happy with mine...just please don't go spreading misinformation about how GX's are full of fancy failure-prone electronics. Cheers!

 

[Kors Camps]

"I don't want the extra weight" is a lot more believable than "excessive amount of electronics" and "unnecessary gadgetry." Thanks for clarifying!

For the record - the 4Runner Limited has rear airbags as an option. Given your preference for light weight and simplicity, I'm surprised you didn't buy a V6 4x4 and instead went with the fulltime AWD V8. I enjoy minimal road noise and a good sound system on both my daily commute and offroad travel, so it seems we've each chosen wisely in accordance with our preferences.

I do still find this absolutely hilarious:



Lexus GX Reliability 100
Land Rover LR3 Reliability 58.7

Not seeing how the GX wasn't considered due to these mysterious excessive electronics and it's porkiness but an LR3 at damn near 3 tons empty and with a well-known penchant for reliability problems was in the running...but...anyway. You're happy with your choice, I'm happy with mine...just please don't go spreading misinformation about how GX's are full of fancy failure-prone electronics. Cheers!

The reason I did not seriously consider the GX470 is because i classify it as a 350 pound over-weight 4runner with fewer aftermarket options than i wanted and slightly higher insurance cost. I touched on some specs & additional reasons in my previous post. For the third and final time...I did not claim the LR3 was similar or any more reliable or simplistic in design compared to a GX470. Nor did I ever make a claim that the GX has failure-prone electronics. Who's mis-informing who, here? Don't let your emotions steer the conversation guys.

I chose a V8 instead of the V6 because the additional torque offers a useable performance advantage when the vehicle is fully laden. The added power is worth the additional drivetrain weight. I am also fond of Torsion center diffs for heavy rain and trips to the ski hill. The V8's also have larger front brakes. I did the timing belt & water pump service myself, so the associated maintenance costs & complication that some people mention was a moot point for me. The money saved by avoiding shop labor will far outweigh the 4runner's purchase price premium.

"Minimal road noise and a good sound system" aren't important to me when Im doing 15mph on washboard or getting 9 mpg in the back country with the stereo off, enjoying nature. I do need to eventually upgrade the JBL speakers in the 4Runner...They pretty much suck, especially after I modified the exhaust!

 

[ttfjc]

Some data points that I found interesting when I was truck shopping...

Curb Weight

GX470: 4871 lbs.
4Runner: 4530 lbs.

Max Payload
GX470: 1329 lbs.
4Runner: 1475 lbs.

Ground Clearance
GX470: 8.3 in.
4Runner: 9.1 in.

Max Tow Capacity
GX470: 6500 lbs.
4runner: 7000 lbs.

These figures alone matter to me. Foregoing air suspension, some electronics, thicker window glass, etc. are all important to me, as I move forward with my truck build. Unnecessary gadgetry is defined as anything that I absolutely do not need to enjoy my daily commute or off road travel. This can be characterized by over 300 pounds of "stuff" added to the GX that will not improve my experience in any significant way.

To put that into perspective: With the V8 4runner, I will be able to fill a 15 gallon Aux fuel tank and a 15 Gallon water tank with Aluminum skid plates and barely meet a GX470's stock weight. That is HUGE for me. On top of that, an additional 11% of rated payload means I can add more and stay within Insurance/Legal parameters. I value these figures. A lot of people pay little attention to vehicle weight but It is my intention to stay as close to GVWR as possible for several reasons.


Okay, ttjc. You may feel like I've ignored you. So I want to give you some quality 1 on 1 time.

I am fully aware that the GX and V8 Runner are the same vehicle platform with different cladding. Refer to aforementioned specs & comments on aftermarket support. One could argue that - myself - as well as everybody else who bought and modified a 4runner, paid more, for more. Maybe all of us Toyota owners are completely Crazy. If you are dogmatically dead set on convincing North Americans that the 4runner is a waste of money and that we're all wrong for not having bought the Lexus, I think you're fighting a loosing battle.

What next. Explain why I cross shopped the Xterra, so you can Internet Shame me? Come on Dude... A lot more built Xterra's wheeling in the backcountry than there are GX470's. I guess all of the Nissan guys are crazy as well. Lets bash Wranglers while we're at it, right? Lets not get into that on Expo Portal.

I wheel with nissans all the time, my brother has a SAS xterra. Theres always one in every toyota trail run.

I’m not dead set on convincing the world that they need the GX, because we all know that everyone should have an 80 series. Thats what everyone needs, just some more then others.

15 MPH! Man thats fast! Do you even 4LO BRO?

 

[climblife]

neosapian, I like the exterra! why didn't you get one? I just dont see a good reason to buy one over the gx/ 4runner. V8 4runners are great and im sure you're happy with it but those are super expensive here (too many 'Yota bros). I can get the same truck with all that comfy bull**** that i want on my commute and still wheel as hard as you can for less money... you know how cool it will be to be days out and still have heated seats. I'm going to delete the airbags as soon as i get it... the kit is less than a 100 bucks. Also SoCal girls are pretty materialistic so I've got the lexus thing going for me too lol.:sombrero:

Jlee, NAV isnt an issue anymore? This is good news because i was going to struggle finding one without it. What specific features should I be looking for on a GX 470 ?

Are you guys on steel wheels or aloys? What do you recommend?

 

[JLee]

neosapian, I like the exterra! why didn't you get one? I just dont see a good reason to buy one over the gx/ 4runner. V8 4runners are great and im sure you're happy with it but those are super expensive here (too many 'Yota bros). I can get the same truck with all that comfy bull**** that i want on my commute and still wheel as hard as you can for less money... you know how cool it will be to be days out and still have heated seats. I'm going to delete the airbags as soon as i get it... the kit is less than a 100 bucks. Also SoCal girls are pretty materialistic so I've got the lexus thing going for me too lol.:sombrero:

Jlee, NAV isnt an issue anymore? This is good news because i was going to struggle finding one without it. What specific features should I be looking for on a GX 470 ?

Are you guys on steel wheels or aloys? What do you recommend?

Nav is about to be less of an issue -- we're waiting for the bugs to be sorted, but this is the unit in testing: https://phoenixandroidradios.com/pr...d-navigation-radio-for-toyota-prado-2003-2009

The airbag delete kit is really cheap but you will want the upper isolators as well (they're $60-70/each), so figure about 200 bucks for the coil conversion bits.

The stock wheels work fine with a 265/70 or 255/75 tire. I'm not sure if you can do a 285/70 on them or not, but that'd be easily solved. I have FN F(x) Pro 17x8 0mm wheels with 255/75R17 Duratracs on mine:

Edit: Almost forgot. Re: stuff to look for: https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/120-series-faq-and-links.1006941/

 

[94toy22re]

I do not recall ever "bashing" the Lexus. But I do believe that if a Luxury brand vehicle (like a Lexus) were a top priority, a ~2008 Dicsovery LR3 is a nicer option at a convincingly low price. If a Practical off road vehicle with some amenaties is the top priority, a 4runner V8 is a nicer option at a convingly low price. returning to one of my arguments: I cannot easily change a water pump or alternator in the field on a Land Rover...But I can do that on a 4runner.

If i were looking to get a 4X4 luxury yacht, i would have picked up an LR3 with a warranty. Great vehicles with outatanding heritage and aftermarket support. They do not have the same repuation for dependability as Toyota, but they are a distinguihed choice for the light duty work the OP has outlined. But i digress.


If the T4R & GX are indeed the same vehicle, I'd be inclined to choose the lighter, simpler variant... Tough time convincing me that this is not a legitimate perspectve... Plus, things such as GVWR and Aftermarket parts selection are paramount to me.

Seems to me, to reach climbing & hiking locations out in the bush and general 4x4 camping,, 32's and a conservative lift or level with upgraded shocks is all the OP will need. Keep fuel range in mind when choosing a V8 truck. I got 9mpg out of my VVT-I V8 on parts of White Rim Trail with stock tires with a light load in 107 degree temps.

YMMV.

Do you realize that the water pump is driven off the the timing belt on the 2uzfe and then to top things off the starter is underneath the intake manifold? Thats not a job i would do in the field! I did buy a v8 a 4runner but i would of preferred the GX470 for the manual transfer case.

 

[Kors Camps]

Yeah, those things were brought to my attention when I replaced the Timing belt, water pump, tensioners etc. early June. It took a couple evenings and 6 beers to complete solo. A surprisingly pleasant job for even a novice like me. Not so pleasant "in the field" but certainly not impossible.

What I meant type was replace the "alternator in the field", not the water pump...my mistake. I wouldnt consider an OEM WP failure very likely. The Alt is more exposed and will be in my spares box when i get around to replacing the stock unit. At any rate, "easy" was a poor choice of words on my part as well. Thanks.

 

[Kors Camps]

neosapian, I like the exterra! why didn't you get one? I just dont see a good reason to buy one over the gx/ 4runner. ... Also SoCal girls are pretty materialistic so I've got the lexus thing going for me too lol.:sombrero:

Are you guys on steel wheels or aloys? What do you recommend?

A modded Lexus will add to your sex appeal. lol. Cant argue with that! My Girlfriend drove Deuce 1/2's and armored Humvee's for 7 years in the Army. Lucky for me she doesn't care about brand image or sparse interior & ride quality, haha. She had 3 different Corolla's in the past so the 'common folks' Toyota SUV wasn't a tough sell as far as consumptive status goes. If I were a single Guy I'd have a sexy B8 S4, or 987 Cayman S, or E-90 335i daily driver + budget-built Xterra weekend rig. I did get her to convert to a Volkswagen Fan Girl though, so the GTI satisfy's the Tuner in me. haha.

Originally I planned to keep my old A6 as a commuter & build a dedicated weekend 4x4 based on a sub $10k initial purchase price. When I totaled the Audi I decided to pony up and get into the 4runner as a dual purpose rig.

Steel vs. Aluminum wheels?

I struggled with this choice a few weeks ago. Steel is affordable with ample strength. Aluminum can be more expensive with adequate strength for most people. I subscribe to my Brother's viewpoint: If Im driving so unwisely or wheeling so hard that the additional strength of steel is a necessity... It means Im not treating my vehicle very kindly, and a bent/damaged wheel should be the least of my worries.

A replacement wheel is cheap. I can't say the same for other components that would likely break/fail long before an alloy wheel gives me any trouble. I got a set of inexpensive Alloy's from Discount Tire on sale for $420 shipped and they'll do just fine even if the aren't my favorite in terms of style. Its important that my Lady is able to manipulate & change a tire in the event that I bust an ankle while backpacking or Mt. Biking. She's barely 5 feet tall & 115lbs with Goretex gear & boots on... A 285/70r17 Cooper ST Maxx on a 17x9" MB 352 alloy wheel weighs ~90lbs! Yes, an obscure consideration when it comes to wheel choice - I try to geek out on as many variables as possible. Haha!

Make sure to post a build thread after you purchase and progress along your build. I've been meaning to do the same...

 

[ttfjc]

Steel vs aluminum.

This is what i would do:

get on ih8MUD. Ask the question: what do i need to do to run (for example) 275/70 R17 (not sure on the exact but i beleive thats the 33's on a 17 inch rim) with a OME lift(or what ever you go with)?

OR: Find someone else who has the exact lift you plan on, look and see where they trim/remove plastics on their thread. Firgure out what wheels to get.

I would suggest used toyota wheels on CL. Like new factory take offs pop up on CL in my area for around $1000 for TRD pros, five with tires you can turn around and sell, or maybe youll luck into a set of winter tires. (IDK if it snows there) The TRD pros might not be the right offset etc but thats what you figure out on mud. Or get the spacers. There is a lexus here in town with TRD's and they look pretty serious.

Chances are what you want to do have been done 100 times.. Expo portal is a great place for generic advice but your going into specifics. I feel like expo portal has a bit of the "more money the experience” problem latlely.

 

[climblife]

Steel vs aluminum.

This is what i would do:

get on ih8MUD. Ask the question: what do i need to do to run (for example) 275/70 R17 (not sure on the exact but i beleive thats the 33's on a 17 inch rim) with a OME lift(or what ever you go with)?

OR: Find someone else who has the exact lift you plan on, look and see where they trim/remove plastics on their thread. Firgure out what wheels to get.

I would suggest used toyota wheels on CL. Like new factory take offs pop up on CL in my area for around $1000 for TRD pros, five with tires you can turn around and sell, or maybe youll luck into a set of winter tires. (IDK if it snows there) The TRD pros might not be the right offset etc but thats what you figure out on mud. Or get the spacers. There is a lexus here in town with TRD's and they look pretty serious.

Chances are what you want to do have been done 100 times.. Expo portal is a great place for generic advice but your going into specifics. I feel like expo portal has a bit of the "more money the experience” problem latlely.

Thanks dude,

and no it doesn't snow here... I'm basically in mexico lol

heres the thread on mud forum.ih8mud.com/threads/lifting-a-gx470.1022512

I'm currently scouring the country for a super low milage gx... will update when i purchase

Cheers!

 

[Dalko43]

$20k budget, bombproof truck, Toyota. Your options that I see as fitting those requirements:
- Mid 2000's 2nd gen Tacoma.
- 4th gen 4runner. Mildly used v6's can be found for under $15k. v8's will generally cost more and are harder to find. The v8 is only really necessarily if you plan on loading up the vehicle to max GVWR and potentially beyond; the v6 is a venerable workhorse and will be more than adequate if you plan on keeping the weight to a minimum.
- 1st gen, maybe even an early 2nd gen, Tundra.
- 1st gen Lexus GX470. As others have said it is essentially built on the same LC Prado platform as the 4runner, except it comes with the 4.7l v8 as standard (that was an option on the 4th gen 4runner). Somewhat nicer interior.
-Early/mid 2000's LC 100. Also came with 4.7l v8. Combines the Lexus' comfort and refinement with a robust LC chassis.
- Mid 2000's FJ Cruiser. Similar underlying platform to the 4runner and Lexus GX470. Rear lockers are easier to find. Interior is well-suited to hard overland use (no carpet in the back storage area).

As long as you make sure none of your potential buys were involved in the frame rust recalls (relevant only to certain years of the Tacoma and Tundra), all of the above vehicles all already fairly bombproof in stock form. Add bigger tires, armor and suspension as you see fit, but honestly, you'll be surprised how far these vehicles will take you in stock form. I'd drive them stock first, figure out their capabilities and limitations for your desired driving goals, and then modify as necessary.

 

[climblife]

$20k budget, bombproof truck, Toyota. Your options that I see as fitting those requirements:
- Mid 2000's 2nd gen Tacoma.
- 4th gen 4runner. Mildly used v6's can be found for under $15k. v8's will generally cost more and are harder to find. The v8 is only really necessarily if you plan on loading up the vehicle to max GVWR and potentially beyond; the v6 is a venerable workhorse and will be more than adequate if you plan on keeping the weight to a minimum.
- 1st gen, maybe even an early 2nd gen, Tundra.
- 1st gen Lexus GX470. As others have said it is essentially built on the same LC Prado platform as the 4runner, except it comes with the 4.7l v8 as standard (that was an option on the 4th gen 4runner). Somewhat nicer interior.
-Early/mid 2000's LC 100. Also came with 4.7l v8. Combines the Lexus' comfort and refinement with a robust LC chassis.
- Mid 2000's FJ Cruiser. Similar underlying platform to the 4runner and Lexus GX470. Rear lockers are easier to find. Interior is well-suited to hard overland use (no carpet in the back storage area).

As long as you make sure none of your potential buys were involved in the frame rust recalls (relevant only to certain years of the Tacoma and Tundra), all of the above vehicles all already fairly bombproof in stock form. Add bigger tires, armor and suspension as you see fit, but honestly, you'll be surprised how far these vehicles will take you in stock form. I'd drive them stock first, figure out their capabilities and limitations for your desired driving goals, and then modify as necessary.

Thanks dude. any other brands I should consider? I'm really leaning toward the lexus but i'm not in love with the styling in stock form. thats why i would lift it immediately.

 

[Dalko43]

Thanks dude. any other brands I should consider? I'm really leaning toward the lexus but i'm not in love with the styling in stock form. thats why i would lift it immediately.

Brands outside of Toyota? You could look at Jeep Wranglers and Ford Rangers; I don't have much experience with either vehicle but I know they are fairly common on the used market.

Your desire to lift immediately is understandable and if you plan on tacking some hardcore jeep trails right off the bat, I could see how that would make sense. If you just plan on doing some exploration on some mild gravel and forest roads, the stock vehicles are very capable. I'm just bringing that up to note that suspension modification may or may not be necessary depending on the type of trails you plan to explore. Also depends on how much weight you plan on adding. The Toyota frames and overall chassis' are surprisingly robust; the Toyota engines, while reliable and capable, will see a decrease in fuel economy as soon as you start adding weight and lift.

 

[chunko]

Thanks dude. any other brands I should consider? I'm really leaning toward the lexus but i'm not in love with the styling in stock form. thats why i would lift it immediately.

Also of note, removing the running boards from the GX and adding a set of all terrains will greatly transform the looks. 255 75 17 tires fit with stock height.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[JLee]

Also of note, removing the running boards from the GX and adding a set of all terrains will greatly transform the looks. 255 75 17 tires fit with stock height.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Yep. This trip was with stock suspension. https://squashingrocks.com/arizona-and-new-mexico/