Lumpskie's 1989 Grand Wagoneer Build

[Darkrider]

Where'd you pull that Detroit from? I'm with you, a nice torquey diesel tow rig sounds really handy to me right now.

It came out of an '82 Chevy K10 from my understanding, I got it as part of a spare parts stash with my '94 GMC Sierra with the 6.5 Detroit.

 

[lumpskie]

Build a 6BT for the waggy!!!!! (or a 4bt)

There are plenty of threads about it!

That's what I was originally planning! But, this 360 is in such great shape (like the rest of the rig) that I'm putting it off. I'd love to put the new Cummins V8 from the Titan in there too... or even an Eco diesel. But, these things are getting pretty rare, especially not cut up. So, I may go toward the restoration side of things... if I ever have the money...

It came out of an '82 Chevy K10 from my understanding, I got it as part of a spare parts stash with my '94 GMC Sierra with the 6.5 Detroit.

^Cool!

 

[jeepdreamer]

That's what I was originally planning! But, this 360 is in such great shape (like the rest of the rig) that I'm putting it off. I'd love to put the new Cummins V8 from the Titan in there too... or even an Eco diesel. But, these things are getting pretty rare, especially not cut up. So, I may go toward the restoration side of things... if I ever have the money...



^Cool!

Thanks to "cash for clunkers" we lost a LOT of full sized jeeps to the crusher. Then there was the "renisance" of their classic style which caught the eye of wealthy architects and trendy folks which birthed folks like wagonmasters and others to begin the inflated cost of good condition examples.
I understand your interest in keeping it original. Unfortunately, you'll never see diesel milage or performance from even a great 360, though there are ways to help signicantly.
First thing would be to ask yourself how much you plan to actually use the jeep.
Next is how much from stock are you willing to venture?
Then, how much are you willing to invest to get where you want it to be?
I have 2 weeks before I head your direction (can't wait!) so I'm sure you know better than I do what the state will allow for emissions etc. My 83 scrambler has a 360 that has all its original wagoneer (donor motor) emissions and is very poor on performance and economy thanks to it.
I'd probably start with an HEI Distributor and tbi fuel injection. For your waggy I'd seriously consider a 700r4 or gl80 transmission swap. Overdrive and lower 1st gear will help.
Also, match your diff gears and tire size to the final ratio of the OD.
Will make it a little more mpg friendly and much more comfortable to drive on the freeway.

 

[CRolandLJ]

Thanks to "cash for clunkers" we lost a LOT of full sized jeeps to the crusher. Then there was the "renisance" of their classic style which caught the eye of wealthy architects and trendy folks which birthed folks like wagonmasters and others to begin the inflated cost of good condition examples.
I understand your interest in keeping it original. Unfortunately, you'll never see diesel milage or performance from even a great 360, though there are ways to help signicantly.
First thing would be to ask yourself how much you plan to actually use the jeep.
Next is how much from stock are you willing to venture?
Then, how much are you willing to invest to get where you want it to be?
I have 2 weeks before I head your direction (can't wait!) so I'm sure you know better than I do what the state will allow for emissions etc. My 83 scrambler has a 360 that has all its original wagoneer (donor motor) emissions and is very poor on performance and economy thanks to it.
I'd probably start with an HEI Distributor and tbi fuel injection. For your waggy I'd seriously consider a 700r4 or gl80 transmission swap. Overdrive and lower 1st gear will help.
Also, match your diff gears and tire size to the final ratio of the OD.
Will make it a little more mpg friendly and much more comfortable to drive on the freeway.

FWIW Wagonmasters was around a long time before cash for clunkers but i get your point. I always love seeing a FSJ around town.

 

[jeepdreamer]

FWIW Wagonmasters was around a long time before cash for clunkers but i get your point. I always love seeing a FSJ around town.

Oh, I agree... wasn't bashing wagonmasters specifically. It's nature of the beast. They were smart enough to recognize something that had potential for future value and built a business off it. While I may cringe at the prices many of these boutique places demand, I don't fault them.

 

[lumpskie]

I understand your interest in keeping it original. Unfortunately, you'll never see diesel milage or performance from even a great 360, though there are ways to help signicantly.
First thing would be to ask yourself how much you plan to actually use the jeep.
Next is how much from stock are you willing to venture?
Then, how much are you willing to invest to get where you want it to be?
I have 2 weeks before I head your direction (can't wait!) so I'm sure you know better than I do what the state will allow for emissions etc. My 83 scrambler has a 360 that has all its original wagoneer (donor motor) emissions and is very poor on performance and economy thanks to it.
I'd probably start with an HEI Distributor and tbi fuel injection. For your waggy I'd seriously consider a 700r4 or gl80 transmission swap. Overdrive and lower 1st gear will help.
Also, match your diff gears and tire size to the final ratio of the OD.
Will make it a little more mpg friendly and much more comfortable to drive on the freeway.

Yep, I know the thought process you're going through. For me, I think I'm going to deal with the poor gas mileage (12 or 13mpg) and low power for the sake of keeping it original. With the 3.31 gears and 30" tires, the Jeep does everything I need it to do. I'd love to swap motors or transmissions but it's just to nice to tear apart! Wifey and I drive 10,000 miles a year on it and I just can't bring myself to tear apart a FSJ that actually works properly, haha.

That being said... I'm still eyeing a junkyard TBI setup. But, if I was to do that, I would go through the trouble of getting it approved by the state for emmisions.

 

[Mitch502]

A TBI off a 360 FI motor?

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

TBI aint gonna get a ton of mileage improvement, it is majorly a reliability thing.

Most folks do chevy TIB if they go the junkyard route, but there are a number of kits out there that work as well as some new "all in one" setups like the FITech unit.

Thats the direction I plan to head if i keep this thing around much longer.

 

[lumpskie]

I was thinking of doing the Chevy TBI junkyard setup. I know that my rig runs a tad rich right now so I figure I could eeek out a bit of gas mileage. But, I thought I might see a decent power boost running the right AFR...

Do you think I will?

 

[Mitch502]

Is it still the equivalent of carbed, just with a TBI over a carb? No computer right?

 

[jeepdreamer]

A TBI off a 360 FI motor?

Nope. GM tbi is very different than a Chrysler 360 (not amc) fuel injection.

Is it still the equivalent of carbed, just with a TBI over a carb? No computer right?

The system uses a computer, more akin to the brain box AMC cursed us with to run their ignition they stole from Fords crap pile.
You mount the throttle body on your intake via a simple adapter, run wires and sensors, add an electric fuel pump, and ta da.
You won't likely see mpg improve (as the good Dr said) but reliability, ease of start, idle, and changes in elevation are all performed better.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[jeepdreamer]

I was thinking of doing the Chevy TBI junkyard setup. I know that my rig runs a tad rich right now so I figure I could eeek out a bit of gas mileage. But, I thought I might see a decent power boost running the right AFR...

Do you think I will?

Didn't realize you had the "tow package" gears. most of mine had the dreadful 272. As long as you stay stockish tire size your probably be a happy camper.
I do love the stock Cadillac ride.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

Is it still the equivalent of carbed, just with a TBI over a carb? No computer right?

Nope, its all electronically controlled and any swap that gains you anything will have an ECU. Depending how you set it up, you can run open loop or closed loop. Obviously the benefits come best with closed loop as the ECU can get feedback from a downstream O2 sensor and adjust based on engine load, altitude, etc.

the FITech systems and the like (Holley sniper or whatever the other one is) also have a lot of user control-ability.

Folks will see 1-2mpg gains, but as mentioned the big advantage is adaptability to different driving conditions, off-road ability, reliability, hot starts, cold starts. etc.

People gotta realize these rigs are heavy pigs, and even in the case of a late model like Lumpskie has, they're still basically just 1960's technology. Guess what the last American made carburetor vehicle was? The 1991 wagoneer. Chevy had gone to TBI back in 87. Imagine, you went and bought a $30,000 grand wagoneer in 1991, which was a damn expensive vehicle, and the thing vaporlocked on your way home from the dealership.

Because jeep.

If you can regularly achieve 13mpg, and if TBI got you 15mpg, one should be dang happy. I've broken 13mpg twice in the 5 years I've had this thing. One was round trip from vegas to Zion, got about 13.4mpg. The second was like 3 years later when I moved to Reno. I drove over 400 miles at 55mph a few car lengths behind our uhaul, and got 14.something. On a normal day, I get 10-11.

 

[Mitch502]

Interesting. If I ever had to do that I could get by for fit under $150 in parts probably with the junkyard around here

 

[Dr. Marneaus]

Interesting. If I ever had to do that I could get by for fit under $150 in parts probably with the junkyard around here

I have seen most folks who go the junk yard route end up spending about $500-$800 depending on what parts they buy new to supplement the junkyard goods. A all new kit from Hamilton will run about $1400. FITech will be about $1200