M1078 vx. Mitsubishi FUSO 4x4

[Tango Zulu]

Tango Zulu, are you mechanically inclined (or a professional)? I'm curious how you're expecting to maintain one of these vehicles after you purchase one. Apologies for a slight tangent, but I'm really curious about owning one of these behemoths.

Yes. I will be doing all the work myself. Guess you could say I am mechanically inclined. Sometimes challenged might be the better word.

The m1078 surely sounds like an intriguing option. For the US and Canada I can not imagine something with less power than the fuso being very much fun. A 55 mph top speed is likely a 45 mph regular speed on the flat and a "make urself a cup of tea" speed with even the smallest of grades. Now for the ROW that will not be a problem. GL!

Not sure if you meant to imply that the M1078 has less power than the Fuso. It does not. It might weigh a lot more than the FUSO but it also has over twice the torque and a 7 gear tranny. As to the M1078 top speed re-gearing will get you to 70 mph. The interesting part about the M1078 is that although it doesen't have two speed transfer case, or "low gear" the first gear acts as one. The transmission will start the rig on 2nd. First gear has to be manually selected which can be considered a low gear.

Once again. Steel soldiers are fans of anything but the m1078. The 1078 is way better off-road. Way more power. Why not look at getting the 6 wheel drive version. Lmtvs are reliable. Way more reliable than the 900 series trucks we had. A unimog is cheaper than a fuso. You need to look around.

I will certainly also look at the MTVs (6x6).
Interesting your experience with the reliability of the LMTVs is better than the BMYs. And you are right. Most on Steelsoldiers don't like the M1078 but a few do. The main issue most find with the M1078 is the high center of gravity. Apparently they sway quite a lot but that might be exaggerated.
I will give the Unimogs another look. Don't really remember all the variants but I remember the older ones were pretty underpowered.
What version do you recommend?

Edit: Read your previous post. I will look at the 1300s.

 

[toylandcruiser]

Yes. I will be doing all the work myself. Guess you could say I am mechanically inclined. Sometimes challenged might be the better word.



Not sure if you meant to imply that the M1078 has less power than the Fuso. It does not. It might weigh a lot more than the FUSO but it also has over twice the torque and a 7 gear tranny. As to the M1078 top speed re-gearing will get you to 70 mph. The interesting part about the M1078 is that although it doesen't have two speed transfer case, or "low gear" the first gear acts as one. The transmission will start the rig on 2nd. First gear has to be manually selected which can be considered a low gear.



I will certainly also look at the MTVs (6x6).
Interesting your experience with the reliability of the LMTVs is better than the BMYs. And you are right. Most on Steelsoldiers don't like the M1078 but a few do. The main issue most find with the M1078 is the high center of gravity. Apparently they sway quite a lot but that might be exaggerated.
I will give the Unimogs another look. Don't really remember all the variants but I remember the older ones were pretty underpowered.
What version do you recommend?

Edit: Read your previous post. I will look at the 1300s.

http://unimogshop.com/ads/mercedes-benz-unimog-u-1300l-italy/

 

[Tango Zulu]

A 1078 weighs about 16000 pounds empty. But it'll carry a lot more than a fuso. I've driven tons of them all over the place. They are good trucks. They make lots of power and are simple to drive. You'll need a cdl though as they are air brakes

I wanted to come back to this as I did the research on requiring a CDL if you drive a vehicle with air brakes.
This is incorrect.
A CDL is not required for vehicles with a GVWR of less than 26,001 lbs regardless of type of brake operation.

FMCSA §383.5 Definitions.
Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, in accordance with the standards contained in 49 CFR Part 383 , to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-
(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
FMCSA §383.95 Air brake restrictions.
(a) If an applicant either fails the air brake component of the knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the State shall indicate on the CDL, if issued, that the person is restricted from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.
(b) For the purposes of the skills test and the restriction, air brakes shall include any braking system operating fully or partially on the air brake principle.

Florida CDL classes


Class A: trucks or combinations with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) that exceeds 26,001 lbs If present, a towed unit should weigh more than 10,000 lbs.
Class B: trucks with a GVWR that exceeds 26,001 lbs
Class C: vehicles transporting hazardous materials in amounts requiring a placard, or made to transport more than 15 passengers (driver included), with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs or less.

 

[toylandcruiser]

I wanted to come back to this as I did the research on requiring a CDL if you drive a vehicle with air brakes.
This is incorrect.
A CDL is not required for vehicles with a GVWR of less than 26,001 lbs regardless of type of brake operation.

FMCSA §383.5 Definitions.
Commercial driver's license (CDL) means a license issued by a State or other jurisdiction, in accordance with the standards contained in 49 CFR Part 383 , to an individual which authorizes the individual to operate a class of a commercial motor vehicle.
Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle-
(a) Has a gross combination weight rating of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) inclusive of a towed unit(s) with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds); or
(b) Has a gross vehicle weight rating of 11,794 or more kilograms (26,001 pounds or more); or
(c) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; or
(d) Is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials as defined in this section.
FMCSA §383.95 Air brake restrictions.
(a) If an applicant either fails the air brake component of the knowledge test, or performs the skills test in a vehicle not equipped with air brakes, the State shall indicate on the CDL, if issued, that the person is restricted from operating a CMV equipped with air brakes.
(b) For the purposes of the skills test and the restriction, air brakes shall include any braking system operating fully or partially on the air brake principle.

Florida CDL classes


Class A: trucks or combinations with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) that exceeds 26,001 lbs If present, a towed unit should weigh more than 10,000 lbs.
Class B: trucks with a GVWR that exceeds 26,001 lbs
Class C: vehicles transporting hazardous materials in amounts requiring a placard, or made to transport more than 15 passengers (driver included), with a GVWR of 26,001 lbs or less.

That's even better.

 

[biggoolies]

My immediate reaction is:
How many Fuso chassis do we know of on ExPo that have broken?
How many M1078 chassis?
Regardless of all the rationalisations bandied about in defence of the broken Fuso, it broke.
The M1078 is designed to be soldier proof; the fuso requires you to be careful how you load the chassis.
All the components of the M1078 are off the shelf catalog parts, all readily available. It's basically a parts bin assembly kit with a MAN cab imported from Europe.
The Fuso is dedicated bespoke engineering with the intention of reaching the lightest compromise for a target load capacity- not enough margin for my liking.
I'd take the M1078 without hesitation.

But you have to factor in what your heart says, and no amount of mileage figures, bullet points pros and cons can overcome that.

I think only one fuso chassis has broke and that was due to being an overweight load that the chassis was not designed for.

 

[LukeH]

.
Also a few people mentioned that the center of gravity on the M1078s is so high that rolling over is a real risk.

Oh really.
Let's see, compared to a M929 for example:

Wheels? Same height, weight, diameter
Axles? Same height, width, weight (approximately)
Deivetrain? Same height (approximately) weight (relatively)
Engine? above front axle, same height, weight (give or take a few cylinders)
Chassis? On leaf springs just the same.
Payload bay and payload? Same height, same purpose therefore same weight of payload.
Cab?
Ahah! The cab is higher! but hang on only the roof of the cab, which is a thin piece of sheet steel. Inside the cab at that extra height is you! Now I weigh 80 kg. Putting 80 kg a whole meter higher (hey let's be generous; glass, roof, headphones and a christmas pudding = 100kg) will indeed increase the chance of rollover, technically.
By how much?
A gnat's hair (precise scientific measurement!)

Really? 8 tonnes identical and moving 100kg up by a meter is going to make it fall over sooner?
Whoever decided to say that was running on emotion rather than reasoning.

What does change is the pitch of the co-driver's scream inside the cab.

Forward cabs are actually LESS likely to roll over because you're higher up and you will chicken out (or be told to STOP NOW!) way before you might in a low cab long nosed vehicle.

 

[SamMazer]

Hello
I seen your post over at Steel Soldiers and agree with those on here about the attitude there. ( I got thrashed for every question I ever asked so I only read and never post there ).
I own a 1078 and am starting a camper build in the spring , I done a lot of reading before my purchase and here is my opinion and reasons for going with the 1078

In case of break down almost any mechanical part needed is as readily available as a fuso outside of body parts, Glass is a concern though
Any commercial truck repair shop should be able to work on it.
After having driven the 1078 about 200 miles in Military trim the rides not bad , add some - better seats / carpet / paint and it should only get better. I think the suspension as is rides nice add the weight of a camper should only improve. Tires need balancing also.

As far as the rollover debate, your probably not going to venture anywhere that extreme with a camper on back , anyway no higher risk than a Fuso.

1078 compared to the older Military trucks. Parts are going to be far more available on a 1078 also try and find a shop that will work on something that old. I'm guessing ride is much better on the 1078, Power steering ,Cab over allows more room for camper size.

Don't really have any helpful opinions on a fuso.

A few other things I learned on the 1078.-
If you buy one on Govtplanet really go over the inspection reports and zoom in on every pic. When I got mine it was in great shape but I seen some on the lot when I picked mine up that looked like junk.

You DO NOT need a commercial license to drive it if you plate it properly. Can be replated / titled as a RV AFTER mod has been completed.

I have it insured as a " Private use comercial vehicle " through Progresive fairly cheap ( Don't say anything about insurance over at steel soldiers or you will get a nasty message from a moderator ).

Good luck

 

[srqsup]

I am going through the same decision process. M1078 built by GXV or a Fuso built by another builder. Having spent some time at GXV where I had the opportunity to look at their builds and drive a BAE(M1078) I would choose the M1078 all things being equal. The only reason I may go with the Fuso is that the GXV quote may exceed my budget. The M1078 will get 7mpg while the Fuso -loaded-should get 12mpg. Based on 35k miles a year that's about a 5k savings. Also keep in mind that each M1078 wheel and tire will be close to 300lbs. So tire changes will be a workout. The biggest selling point for me is the the M1078 Caterpillar 3116 engine should last a 1,000,000 miles easily while the Fuso will be lucky to last 300k miles. I also love then CTIS system that comes on the m1078. I will pull the trigger on one or the other in the next week or two. It will all come to to $$$.

 

[B85]

Been playing with the same idea. Been playing with the M1083.



Randy

 

[Coachgeo]

The LMTV's get HORRRIBLE fuel milage.... but they are thousandsss$$ less to purchase "for now". Prices are going up fast. If you get one now before they prices skyrocket the thousands saved by getting one of the variations from the FMTV stable goes into fuel ON YOUR TRIP. So question is by the time you pay more for fuel when driving some form of an FMTV expedition camper compared to others.. will you be ahead or behind in overall cost. IMHO, with out doing the math..... I suspect ahead.

 

[whatcharterboat]

Cool thread . Only just saw it. Have to get out more.
.
My first impressions of the M1078 were incredible...

Pros for me:
*Parabolics give great comfort and handling
*full air brakes with common parts
*existing hydraulics for cab tilt, tyre lifters, maybe roof lift or bike rack, etc,
*CTIS ....I could get very used to that

* 20" 2 piece rims .....doesn't that mean you can change a tyre while the rim is still fitted to the truck...that's worth kudos.
*Same cab as an MAN (common here in Oz)
.
but there was other cool stuff that you really can't use....chemical warfare alarm, 50cal gun turret, machine gun racks, blackout lights, etc.

Cons ...... and these are my opinion only.
*CAT 3116 ....... apparently all CAT engines were not created equal according to the CAT mechanics I talked to and that engine doesn't exactly have a good rep here .....but good 300hp CAT engines are cheap if the 3116 ever gave up the ghost.
*Dual 24/12volt alternator and electric system....what the? Why not all 24V? or at least all 12V? Doesn't make sense to me?
*The Aussie dollar dropped just as I was about to do a deal on one and pushed the price way out of the ballpark....and it still is.
*There are a few tricky things to do a right hand drive conversion......but that's another story. Important to me but not applicable to most of the readers of this forum.
*It doesn't really allow for a much bigger body on the rear than a Fuso considering the fuel consumption .....certainly allows for bigger than a MOG.... the 1078 is easily stretched to allow more size but is a giant camper going to work in the bush? That's one of the pluses of the FUSO...compact format that allows a comparatively large camper conversion.

*Fuel consumption compared to a FUSO ..... but then is fuel consumption of a camper as much of a worry as a daily driver? I wasn't really that bothered by it .... YET.
.
Some pics of my friends M1078 (possibly the only one in Australia) next to a Fuso FG84 fitted with ATW single wheels and parabolic suspension.....when you place them together like this, the M1078 doesn't look that big.




I have plenty more pics but am having some issues posting????

 

[UpperCrust]

On the surface the FUSO seems like the better choice. But I think its all about what you plan on doing with it. Driving around the US and Canada not going too far off road, FUSO is a good bet. Plan on going anywhere else south of the border or shipping it elsewhere, spending time way off pavement, I would stay away for the FUSO.

Yes the FUSO gets better fuel milage and might be better to drive on the highway. But if you plan on taking it hundreds of miles off road, it would be scary knowing at any time the computer could throw the truck into limp-mode. If you want to take it south you really cant, or at least with any certainty with the LSDF.

 

[KevinsMap]

On the surface the FUSO seems like the better choice. But I think its all about what you plan on doing with it. Driving around the US and Canada not going too far off road, FUSO is a good bet. Plan on going anywhere else south of the border or shipping it elsewhere, spending time way off pavement, I would stay away for the FUSO.

Yes the FUSO gets better fuel milage and might be better to drive on the highway. But if you plan on taking it hundreds of miles off road, it would be scary knowing at any time the computer could throw the truck into limp-mode. If you want to take it south you really cant, or at least with any certainty with the LSDF.

Forgive my lack of knowledge, but I am only beginning to research these kinds of vehicles. Your post caught my attention. My question about the FUSO; is the computer modular enough and accessible enough to replace in the field, and so carry as a (probably pricey) spare part?

 

[Deleted member 9101]

Also a few people mentioned that the center of gravity on the M1078s is so high that rolling over is a real risk.

I have driven quite a few of them over the years, bot on road and off, never had a problem with it trying to roll over. Hell, ours have a inclinometer on the dash.


And, as someone else mentioned, go for the 6x6, not 4x4. It rides and handles soooo much better.

 

[Deleted member 9101]

*CAT 3116 ....... apparently all CAT engines were not created equal according to the CAT mechanics I talked to and that engine doesn't exactly have a good rep here .....but good 300hp CAT engines are cheap if the 3116 ever gave up the ghost.

I have been around them (LMTV's) since around 1999-2000 and I have never heard of a motor or tranny failure. It's the same engine and tranny combo that is used in city garbage trucks that get pounded on for years on end.

The problem with the 3116 is that they made so many of them that even if 1% are "bad" then that's a large enough number to create rumors and drama.