Mid-Size vs Full-Size (Astrofari vs E350)

[PHeller]

Hi folks,

I have settled into city life, and either ride my bicycle, motorcycle, or catch a ride with my girlfriend to work. Space is tight around here, so having a smaller vehicle is nice (a bigger one won't fit in my off-street parking). My 93 Ford Escort Wagon has been a good road trip vehicle in that it gets good MPG and is plenty reliable, but we can't sleep in it comfortably, which either means backpacking, or staying in a campground. When your trying to get as many miles in a weekend, setting up camp is annoying.

On the flip side, I'm still an avid backpacker and UL hiker, and have no need to cook inside a vehicle. Most of our trips are in or around civilization, so a bathroom isn't hard to find, nor a shower.

The only reason I want a larger vehicle is to more comfortably sleep in it, and I don't want to draw attention to the fact that I'm sleeping it it. I want to be able to sleep at Walmart, at rest areas, in state park pull-offs, city parking garages, and anywhere I can find a quiet place. A pop-up or bed-camper is just too conspicuous, and all too expensive at this point. I'm still paying off college loans at a less-than-desirable salary.

The girlfriend has a much better salary, and will be purchasing a new vehicle soon, likely one capable of 40mpg highway, but it will be a nice new vehicle, so taking it on adventures may not be desirable. It will be the "hotel car" and my vehicle will be the "camper van".

So, all this being said, when the main goal is blend in the with the surroundings, minimize cost, and minimize size, and still sleep two comfortably, which is a better start:

Mid-Size (Astrofari) or Full-Size (E350, Savanna, RamVan)?

 

[ExpoMike]

Given what you have described, I would say a mid-size van would likely be perfect. You can find the GM products in an AWD version which might be beneficial to you or just the standard 2WD. Since you are not looking to have a fully contained rig, the larger van would buy more space but do you really need it? Likely not.

You can do a mid-size van very cheap with an air mattress and some storage bins to a built in compartments, raised platform for a bed, etc.

BTW, I think the GM products offer two different wheelbase mid-size vans so for a little more room, find the longer version if you need. Good luck.

 

[cwsqbm]

Do you have a need to go off-road at all? If not, a front-wheel drive minivan might be even easier to find cheaply and be more efficient on the highway.

 

[PHeller]

Well I checked out a 78,000 mile 99 Safari Cargo and it was a bit too rusty for my liking. It also appeared to be 10 years older than it was...just seemed very well used.

I will be looking at a 88,000 mile E150 5.8l Conversion Van Hi-Top tommorow, that one is only $1500, so hopefully its in better condition. I know it won't get better MPG, but at least it'll offer more room.

 

[T.Low]

The Astro is ok to sleep in, not great, because a 6 ft person leaves only a ft or so between them and the back of the front seats. A full size van is better in that regard.


With the Astro, you may or may not have to move things around inside to make sleeping area, depending on if and how you set up your interior. Full size van would be better there too. But the Astro could certainly work.
Here is a good place to get more Astro campeing info.
http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/viewforum.php?f=38


Also try to search for an Astro van called GhettoBago (poor man's Winnebago); he did some nice interior camping mods relatively cheap.

High top is the way to go, since you want to be stealthy.

Personally, I knew I didn't want a full size rig; but for your criteria, full size may well be more suitable. IMO, with out the pop top, the Astro can certainly be cramped for two. But for us backpackers, it's not really an issue.

 

[Stroverlander]

The Astro is ok to sleep in, not great, because a 6 ft person leaves only a ft or so between them and the back of the front seats. A full size van is better in that regard.

With the Astro, you may or may not have to move things around inside to make sleeping area, depending on if and how you set up your interior. Full size van would be better there too. But the Astro could certainly work.
Here is a good place to get more Astro campeing info.
http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/viewforum.php?f=38


Also try to search for an Astro van called GhettoBago (poor man's Winnebago); he did some nice interior camping mods relatively cheap.

High top is the way to go, since you want to be stealthy.

Personally, I knew I didn't want a full size rig; but for your criteria, full size may well be more suitable. IMO, with out the pop top, the Astro can certainly be cramped for two. But for us backpackers, it's not really an issue.

I've stayed with Astro and Safari vans because they are large enough for what I need - fits motorcycles inside, minimalist camper and yet small enough to park around town. Just yesterday, went to local pub for Euro 2012 final and my buddies couldn't believe I snagged a spot out front on Magazine Street that the van could fit.

I don't think sleeping room is too bad, I'm 6ft and haven't felt cramped length-wise on an air mattress in the back. Cargo area has to be at least 8' because I can fit sheets of plywood in there between the wheelwells. I do have to stack storage bins, cooler and gear off to one side of the air mattress and for two people it would be cramped unless you made some sort of storage system underneath the sleeping area.

Eventually I am going matte black vinyl over the rear side windows and make covers for the windshield/rear window as I tend to be paranoid when sleeping in parking lots on the road. I just sleep better knowing that people can't see inside.

Astro vans blend in pretty well most places, though I suppose so do most white cargo vans.

 

[PHeller]

I really had my mind set on a Astrofari Cargo Version, but I just cant in good conscience buy a vehicle that has more rust that my current one and is 7 years newer.

It may just be a product of my location (Lake Erie), that roads are heavily salted, but if it that were the case then I wouldn't find older vehicles in better condition than this one.

I'm not wild about the MPG of full size vans. The E-Series vans, aside from a 7.3l diesel in a small chassis, all appear to get 14-18mpg average, with some getting 20 or over if modified for efficiency.

 

[ihatemybike]

If you are looking for a cheap cargo with minimal rust you'll definitely have to look outside of your area.

As someone that has owned several Astro vans and thus been on many used Astro van hunts, you'll be better off finding a nice window (not conversion) van. Window vans usually lived easy lives with most of them being bought for family use and they have nicer sound and thermal insulated interiors. Another nice thing about the window Astros is that they really don't look out of place anywhere, thus enhancing stealth. Using opaque curtains it's pretty easy to be active in the back without anyone knowing you are there.

The reason I say not conversion, is that many of the companies that did the conversions tended to do things quickly and with cheap materials, the windows are hard to get replacements for and with those odd windows the bodies flex badly off-road. I've spent lots of time in junk yards pulling apart these vans and have yet to find a conversion that I felt lived up to OEM standards.

When traveling in my vans I've been known to park pretty much wherever I want without being bothered. I've over-nighted in all the obvious places, but I've also parked in the back of used car lots, residential areas, main st in small towns and many others. Only place I've ever been bothered is a no facilities rest area in NJ. Turns out that it was a gay pro hot spot and the cops wanted to make sure I wasn't the latest pro, thus I no longer park in rest areas that don't have facilities.

My last long trip in Green from Chicago to Knoxville area and back resulted in 23.5 MPG. Once I get the GPS tracks from my dad I'll post Grumpy's average from the BABE Rally, but highway only run from Pontiac, IL to Elgin, IL netted 25.1 MPG.

 

[arlon]

I have an Astro but almost always go solo. I did rig it to make a simple double bed but for two, it's tight. For my solo trips I set it up as a single bed and leave a lot more room for my hiking gear. The bed is a little over 6ft and I am totally comfy sleeping on it (I'm 6ft). Made magnetic screens and curtains for the windows, have a "bucket" type porta potty on board, Left the back seat in, I actually use the back seat as my reading lounge in the evenings. Astro also blends into parking lots pretty well. It gets reasonable mileage considering it's on E rated tires, AWD and a small lift, easy to park and easy to get parts for. Cook and sit outside a lot but with the back seat in it can actually seat 4-5 people pretty comfortably for evening chats. I doubt I've spent $200 (excluding the awning which I've never used) to make it very comfy for weekend outings.

double bed:

single mode:

Plenty of leg room for my 6' frame.

In the front yard..

 

[T.Low]

I wish this van was available when i was looking:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...LX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649#ht_500wt_1142

 

[Rosco862003]

One question I have about Astro's and Safari's is about their safety. If I recall they had pretty poor safety ratings in the late 80's early 90's and even looking at the crash tests online they don't seem to fare well with the front section of the passenger cabin crumpling pretty badly. Just curious if anyone has any personal experience where the vehicle has held up well in the event of an accident? It seems as though the Econoline would hold up better in an accident, but I can't prove this since they don't test vehicles that big typically.

Below is a video of what I am referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kuSghb7P7U

 

[ihatemybike]

Having been a member of Astro/Safari forums for well over a decade, of the accidents with them that I've seen reported the vans actually hold up pretty well. In the pics I've seen the Astros have usually inflicted more damage on the other vehicle than what they have received.

I've had two of my vans take decent hits. My 1994 was T-boned on the drivers side hitting the back part of the door and under the fuel filler neck. My 2000 was rear ended hard enough to push my van from a dead stop 20' forward and into the vehicle in front of me. I was able to drive away from both accidents with the vans not having their handling effected.

 

[Stroverlander]

The good news being that at one point you were least likely to be killed while driving an Astro/Safari...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Astro
In testing performed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), however, the Astro and Safari fared better, improving from a single-star rating in 1991 to a three-star (driver) and four-star (passenger) rating by 2000. In side impacts, the Astro and Safari both received the highest, five-star rating in every year that the test was administered.
Surprisingly, in 2007 the IIHS reported that in real life situations, the 2001-2004 Chevrolet Astro recorded during calendar years 2002-2005 the least number of killed drivers of all passenger vehicles in the United States, as calculated per every million units on the road. Driver's habits and vehicle usage might have influenced this result.

 

[Rosco862003]

The good news being that at one point you were least likely to be killed while driving an Astro/Safari...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Astro
In testing performed by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), however, the Astro and Safari fared better, improving from a single-star rating in 1991 to a three-star (driver) and four-star (passenger) rating by 2000. In side impacts, the Astro and Safari both received the highest, five-star rating in every year that the test was administered.
Surprisingly, in 2007 the IIHS reported that in real life situations, the 2001-2004 Chevrolet Astro recorded during calendar years 2002-2005 the least number of killed drivers of all passenger vehicles in the United States, as calculated per every million units on the road. Driver's habits and vehicle usage might have influenced this result.

That's what i was looking for (and of course its on one of the most well known websites). I was looking for a point in time in which safety scores may have improved, not based on driver statistics but backed by actual tests. Most of the info I was finding was based on the 1996 for whatever reason.

I feel as though driver habits play a large part in this statistic, In a similar report it also said that the 350z had one of the highest death per accident ratios whereas the G35 had one of the lowest. They are the exact same car! So I feel as though its based on typical 350 owners being younger and a bit more risky than G owners, and not based on the vehicle itself.

 

[axehead]

I've stayed with Astro and Safari vans because they are large enough for what I need - fits motorcycles inside, minimalist camper and yet small enough to park around town.

Stroverlander, do you think you would get a single bed down the driver's side and a dirt bike on the cargo door side?

I don't love my bike so much that I need to sleep with it, but out of sight out of mind is my goal.