Moab and more closing?
- Thread starter ttora4runner
- Start date
roadkill
Adventurer
from a Blue Ribbon email I recieved recently
and from the AMA
http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=14061961
I find it very interesting that none of the representatives from Utah support this. if there were a need for wilderness here you would think the locals would be the ones advocating and pushing for it. I also find it quit disturbing that over 45% of BLM land in Utah will be offlimits if this passes. how much land needs to be protected from us?
and from the AMA
http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/alert/?alertid=14061961
I find it very interesting that none of the representatives from Utah support this. if there were a need for wilderness here you would think the locals would be the ones advocating and pushing for it. I also find it quit disturbing that over 45% of BLM land in Utah will be offlimits if this passes. how much land needs to be protected from us?
craig333
Expedition Leader
How much land? Are you familiar with the wildlands network (formerly the wildlands project. They won't be happy until half the land in the US is off limits to humans. And they don't mind getting it in little chunks.
"Led by the father of the field of conservation biology, Michael Soulé, we, the Wildlands Network (then Project) inspired the conservation movement to think boldly and beyond “postage stamp” conservation. The vision is Room to Roam – provided by systems of connected protected areas from Canada to Mexico, from the Pacific to the Atlantic –to ensure the survival of America's natural heritage. We recognize that even though natural systems have been highly fragmented by human activities; we cannot, as a conservation movement, react by isolated, fragmented planning. Thus, the Wildlands Project became a leader in orienting the conservaton movement towards this necessarily ambitious vision of continental-scale, collaborative, wildlands protection.
WHERE
CONTINENTAL CONNECTIONS – Humans use highways; wildlife needs Wildways. The Wildlands Network has identified four regions where we focus on reconnecting the continent’s wild places. The Pacific Wildway running from Baja to Alaska
The Boreal Wildway running west-east from Alaska to the Canadian Maritimes across the forest roof of North America
The Eastern Wildway extends northward from the Everglades along the Appalachians to the Arctic
The Western Wildway spans the continent from Mexico, through the Rockies, to Alaska. This Western Wildway, called the Spine of the Continent, is our showcase initiative, underway now for nearly a decade."
http://www.twp.org/cms/index.cfm?group_id=1000
"Led by the father of the field of conservation biology, Michael Soulé, we, the Wildlands Network (then Project) inspired the conservation movement to think boldly and beyond “postage stamp” conservation. The vision is Room to Roam – provided by systems of connected protected areas from Canada to Mexico, from the Pacific to the Atlantic –to ensure the survival of America's natural heritage. We recognize that even though natural systems have been highly fragmented by human activities; we cannot, as a conservation movement, react by isolated, fragmented planning. Thus, the Wildlands Project became a leader in orienting the conservaton movement towards this necessarily ambitious vision of continental-scale, collaborative, wildlands protection.
WHERE
CONTINENTAL CONNECTIONS – Humans use highways; wildlife needs Wildways. The Wildlands Network has identified four regions where we focus on reconnecting the continent’s wild places. The Pacific Wildway running from Baja to Alaska
The Boreal Wildway running west-east from Alaska to the Canadian Maritimes across the forest roof of North America
The Eastern Wildway extends northward from the Everglades along the Appalachians to the Arctic
The Western Wildway spans the continent from Mexico, through the Rockies, to Alaska. This Western Wildway, called the Spine of the Continent, is our showcase initiative, underway now for nearly a decade."
http://www.twp.org/cms/index.cfm?group_id=1000
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
One thing the "wilderness" folks have on us is that they put money into organizations that buy up land and secure it.
If we as 4wd recreationalist would also put our money where our mouth is then we could buy up land, make it private and allow all the camping, overlanding and fun we want.
If we as 4wd recreationalist would also put our money where our mouth is then we could buy up land, make it private and allow all the camping, overlanding and fun we want.
Mr. Leary
Glamping Excursionaire
What was that I was hearing about mining companies.... we could call ourselves mine speculators.... and get whatever we want, right?
I don't think it is that surprising at all that UT senators don't support this. Utah gets a lot more money and jobs from mining, forestry etc etc than from land left to nature, however this is federal land, and a national resource. I also think the BRC is shooting itself in the foot yet again with its total opposition to wilderness. I would posit that most reasonable people in America see the benefit of SOME wilderness. If the BRC came back and said we think X,Y and Z have the qualities necessary for wilderness (such as areas that are already wilderness study areas) and these areas do not, they would seem a lot more reasonable. As it is the BRC is really no different than the SUWA, and are just as extreme in the other direction.
They also need to tone down the rhetoric (as does the SUWA). Wilderness is not 'off limits' to humans, I use it most weekends, and I am fairly certain I am human. It is off limits to vehicles. The other thing to realize is that even if this were to pass (which I don't think it should as much of the land is so far degraded that it does not count as 'wilderness') it would still leave over 80% of Utah and 95% of ALL BLM lands as non-wilderness. There has to be a balance somewhere.
They also need to tone down the rhetoric (as does the SUWA). Wilderness is not 'off limits' to humans, I use it most weekends, and I am fairly certain I am human. It is off limits to vehicles. The other thing to realize is that even if this were to pass (which I don't think it should as much of the land is so far degraded that it does not count as 'wilderness') it would still leave over 80% of Utah and 95% of ALL BLM lands as non-wilderness. There has to be a balance somewhere.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
While the economic losses to Wilderness are staggering, the access losses are too. Does mining destroy an area? Afterall 90% of the trails (biking & 4x4) in Moab are remnants of mining? Are we complaining what they have done there?
BRC's Brian Hawthorne did just that, they attempted to get protection on 'some' of the Wilderness proposal, SUWA and co-horts demanded all or none. Since that time they have continued to find new Wilderness, each proposal adding a million more acres.
Can that balance be in Colorado instead of Utah? Why should we bear the decisions of back-easterners that didn't act fast enough to protect their own lands?
I wouldn't say mining destroys and area, after all the area is still there. But how many people want to go recreate in a mine site? Most of the areas that are legitimately up for wilderness designation are ones that haven't been mined. My main objection to the SUWA proposal is that many of the areas proposed for wilderness do not meet the standards of wilderness, this is particularly true around Moab.
I have not seen this, so I can't comment. However based on the various press releases and calls to action from the BRC (some quoted here), I see an 'all wilderness is bad' attitude. I am not defending SUWA, I think their view is equally extreme in the other direction. I really feel that the BRC is not well in line with conservation minded recreationalists, but represents the off-road industry and resource extraction industry (who are their major sponsors).
Sure it can be in Colorado, I would be all for that. However there are far fewer contiguous tracts of land suitable for wilderness in Colorado than there are in Utah. I have to ask why we all go to Utah? I know in my case it is because there are still large amounts of land that are in a wild and pristine state (and they have awesome slot canyons
). I know my goal is not to test my vehicle (I can do that in a quarry anywhere) but to experience the beauty of Utah. I don't think we should be asking why we need to bear the decisions of easterners, but should rejoicing that we still have wild lands to experience and enjoy. I really have no problem keeping 5-10% of our land as is for my generation and future generations.
spressomon
Expedition Leader
I hate this wilderness march too; there seems to be little if any compromise. However we "off-roaders' are just plain outgunned. We fully expect to fight an honest fight but, for comparison sake, we show up with blanks/rubber bullets in our guns when the other side is wielding big artillery.
We are not fully organized; we are not adequately funded; we do not have proper/effective lobbyist representation in D.C. If we keep expecting a different outcome from the same input we are just kidding ourselves/wasting time. Yes, yes I belong to and appreciate the efforts of the BRC and other related organizations but its they are a candle in a wind storm as I see it.
Sorry but that's the cold hard truth regardless what state's public lands you are trying to retain motorized access into.
We are not fully organized; we are not adequately funded; we do not have proper/effective lobbyist representation in D.C. If we keep expecting a different outcome from the same input we are just kidding ourselves/wasting time. Yes, yes I belong to and appreciate the efforts of the BRC and other related organizations but its they are a candle in a wind storm as I see it.
Sorry but that's the cold hard truth regardless what state's public lands you are trying to retain motorized access into.
cruiseroutfit
Well-known member
In Utah, Colorado and Nevada. Thousands and thousands. Moab trails, SR Swell Trails, San Juan Mountains, the entire state of Nevada. I recreate at old mine sites.
Agreed & agreed. I personally like 95% of their proposal, its that last 5% that will be the tug-of-war between all sides. That 5% is compromised of historic access points and as noted areas that do not meat the true definition of Wilderness.
Agreed to an extent. At the end of the day the problem is apathetic users. If even 5% of our user base would get involved on some level, we could have Wilderness where it belongs and trails wouldn't face the constant barrage of closures.
craig333
Expedition Leader
I"d disagree that BRC is anti wilderness.
http://www.sharetrails.org/backcountry/
Its unfortunate the wilderness advocates are so unwilling to accept any compromise. I'll readily agree that much of the proposed wilderness areas are just fine. Its the tendency to overreach that brings so much opposition. I can't for the life of me understand why they want to include some areas that are so clearly not suitable for wilderness designation.
http://www.sharetrails.org/backcountry/
Its unfortunate the wilderness advocates are so unwilling to accept any compromise. I'll readily agree that much of the proposed wilderness areas are just fine. Its the tendency to overreach that brings so much opposition. I can't for the life of me understand why they want to include some areas that are so clearly not suitable for wilderness designation.
paulj
Expedition Leader
It is unusual for a wilderness act to pass without sponsorship by a home senator or reps. However this act was originally proposed in 1989 by a UT senator, Wayne Owens (D. Utah).
http://www.suwa.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7531&news_iv_ctrl=1162
CanuckMariner/Nomad
Love having fun 😊 in the 🌞 by the ⛵ and the ⏳
I got this emailed to me by friends since I go to UTAH a lot:
Utah Wilderness Bill to Go Before Congress
Utah Shared Access Alliance
www.usaall.org
www.takebackutah.org
PO BOX 50592
Provo, Utah 84605-0592
801-830-9112
Greetings!
We have been warning you and thousands of others that this day would come. On October 1, 2009 a congressional committee will consider a wilderness bill that would turn 9.4 million acres of Utah public land into congressionally designated wilderness. This is a major step towards the closing of nearly 40% of all the land that BLM manages in Utah. This may seem surreal but it is actually happening. We must stop this bill. With your help we can do it. Please read this email in entirety, forward it to friends, and act on its call for help. With enough of you getting involved we guarantee we can either stop this bill or minimize the damage that it will cause.
The Deseret News printed this article this morning: House panel to consider bill on Utah wilderness.
If you would like to read the bill in it's entirety go here: Library of Congress H.R. 1925.
If you would like to read the propaganda from our opposition and the main proponents of the bill go here www.suwa.org. Be sure to take some anti-nausea medication these guys spin things pretty hard.
Sincerely,
Michael Swenson
Utah Shared Access Alliance
What is Wilderness Designations
Wilderness Isn't some cute fuzzy term that means wild places and the great out of doors. It is a legal term and formal designation that means a place where man has no lasting impact or signs and where man is very limited to where he can go and what he can do. This means NO motorized OR mechanized access. That means even Mountain bikes are not allowed. Don't believe me? check out this sign I personally took a picture of: NO MOUNTAIN BIKES. It really means no management. It means no development. In some remote places this may be a good thing. In Utah BLM manages about 22 million acres and if 9.4 of them are locked up in wilderness it means the public can forget about using and fully enjoying over 40% of the mostly desert land that BLM manages. NONE of Utah's congressmen or senators support this bill. BLM itself has recommended to congress 1.9 million acres be designated. But the environmentalists don't care. They are asking for more than 400% more acres! I'm sure the mountain areas will be the next target of these greedy groups. To learn more about wilderness go to this article written by one of our board members: The Truth About Wilderness
You can also find some wilderness stats here under the Utah Facts button go to the right column for a number of interesting documents on wilderness.
YOU Can Fight Back
Get On Board the Stop SUWA Express
Unlike our opposition we don't use scare tactics and lies to compel people to action. We have been warning people about this for years and more intently since the Obama administration took control. We are going to lay this out in plain terms. IF YOU DON'T GET INVOLVED RIGHT NOW AS IN TODAY THERE WILL BE 40% LESS LAND AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO ACCESS WITHIN A VERY SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. If we don't combat this aggressive attack on our access WE...NO... YOU WILL LOSE. The threat and danger of loosing access to millions of acres of land has never been more real and imminent. So please take this warning VERY seriously. If you care you must get involved. Other things can wait, this really cannot.
Here is the brutal truth about what needs to be done.
We need to get the word out about this to everyone and anyone who cares like all of us do. We need to send people to Washington to if possible testify in this committee hearing. We need to be able to tell our side of the story to anyone in congress who will listen. We need to unite and direct the energies and voices of tens of thousands of Utahans and other Americans.
To do these things will take serious commitment, which we have. It will take expertise and know how, which we also have. It will take some time, we have very little but we can make do. It will take serious cash, which we don't have. And lastly it will take thousands of active individuals, which we need many more.
How can you help:
1- Donate as much money as you can to help us battle this bill.
2- Pressure your friends and all you know to donate and join USA-ALL.
3- If you have any expertise or other ways to help, give us a call
4-Be ready to act when we ask. Calling legislators, writing letters, etc. Let us focus your efforts where they will be most effective.
I am sure many of you are sick of hearing us beg for money. Believe me I am sick of begging. But this really is a defining do or die moment. We can't fight multiple multi million dollar environmental organizations on guts and determination alone, in many ways thats what we have been doing. We also can't wait until the second before this bill goes to vote before the whole congress. We must fight it now. We need a serious injection of cash. we will use it judiciously and effectively. Your donations are also tax deductible. Is $50 too much to ask to donate, what about $100? Our annual membership is only $30. What is access to 9.4 million acres of Utah public land worth to you? What can you give? We appreciate every dollar donated.
To our existing members who faithfully donate what they can every year, "THANK YOU!" We expect nothing more than your continued support. There are thousands more who receive this same email that have never given us a penny. We hope to gain the support of those who have not in the past.
About Our Organization
We were formed specifically to stop SUWA from closing land to motorized access. We have been established since 1998. We represent ALL forms of motorized access. We have a small fulltime staff and many volunteers. We rely soley on donations to operate.
Utah Shared Access Alliance
www.usaall.org
www.takebackutah.org
PO BOX 50592
Provo, Utah 84605-0592
Utah Shared Access Alliance
801-830-9112
Utah Wilderness Bill to Go Before Congress
Utah Shared Access Alliance
www.usaall.org
www.takebackutah.org
PO BOX 50592
Provo, Utah 84605-0592
801-830-9112
Greetings!
We have been warning you and thousands of others that this day would come. On October 1, 2009 a congressional committee will consider a wilderness bill that would turn 9.4 million acres of Utah public land into congressionally designated wilderness. This is a major step towards the closing of nearly 40% of all the land that BLM manages in Utah. This may seem surreal but it is actually happening. We must stop this bill. With your help we can do it. Please read this email in entirety, forward it to friends, and act on its call for help. With enough of you getting involved we guarantee we can either stop this bill or minimize the damage that it will cause.
The Deseret News printed this article this morning: House panel to consider bill on Utah wilderness.
If you would like to read the bill in it's entirety go here: Library of Congress H.R. 1925.
If you would like to read the propaganda from our opposition and the main proponents of the bill go here www.suwa.org. Be sure to take some anti-nausea medication these guys spin things pretty hard.
Sincerely,
Michael Swenson
Utah Shared Access Alliance
What is Wilderness Designations
Wilderness Isn't some cute fuzzy term that means wild places and the great out of doors. It is a legal term and formal designation that means a place where man has no lasting impact or signs and where man is very limited to where he can go and what he can do. This means NO motorized OR mechanized access. That means even Mountain bikes are not allowed. Don't believe me? check out this sign I personally took a picture of: NO MOUNTAIN BIKES. It really means no management. It means no development. In some remote places this may be a good thing. In Utah BLM manages about 22 million acres and if 9.4 of them are locked up in wilderness it means the public can forget about using and fully enjoying over 40% of the mostly desert land that BLM manages. NONE of Utah's congressmen or senators support this bill. BLM itself has recommended to congress 1.9 million acres be designated. But the environmentalists don't care. They are asking for more than 400% more acres! I'm sure the mountain areas will be the next target of these greedy groups. To learn more about wilderness go to this article written by one of our board members: The Truth About Wilderness
You can also find some wilderness stats here under the Utah Facts button go to the right column for a number of interesting documents on wilderness.
YOU Can Fight Back
Get On Board the Stop SUWA Express
Unlike our opposition we don't use scare tactics and lies to compel people to action. We have been warning people about this for years and more intently since the Obama administration took control. We are going to lay this out in plain terms. IF YOU DON'T GET INVOLVED RIGHT NOW AS IN TODAY THERE WILL BE 40% LESS LAND AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO ACCESS WITHIN A VERY SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME. If we don't combat this aggressive attack on our access WE...NO... YOU WILL LOSE. The threat and danger of loosing access to millions of acres of land has never been more real and imminent. So please take this warning VERY seriously. If you care you must get involved. Other things can wait, this really cannot.
Here is the brutal truth about what needs to be done.
We need to get the word out about this to everyone and anyone who cares like all of us do. We need to send people to Washington to if possible testify in this committee hearing. We need to be able to tell our side of the story to anyone in congress who will listen. We need to unite and direct the energies and voices of tens of thousands of Utahans and other Americans.
To do these things will take serious commitment, which we have. It will take expertise and know how, which we also have. It will take some time, we have very little but we can make do. It will take serious cash, which we don't have. And lastly it will take thousands of active individuals, which we need many more.
How can you help:
1- Donate as much money as you can to help us battle this bill.
2- Pressure your friends and all you know to donate and join USA-ALL.
3- If you have any expertise or other ways to help, give us a call
4-Be ready to act when we ask. Calling legislators, writing letters, etc. Let us focus your efforts where they will be most effective.
I am sure many of you are sick of hearing us beg for money. Believe me I am sick of begging. But this really is a defining do or die moment. We can't fight multiple multi million dollar environmental organizations on guts and determination alone, in many ways thats what we have been doing. We also can't wait until the second before this bill goes to vote before the whole congress. We must fight it now. We need a serious injection of cash. we will use it judiciously and effectively. Your donations are also tax deductible. Is $50 too much to ask to donate, what about $100? Our annual membership is only $30. What is access to 9.4 million acres of Utah public land worth to you? What can you give? We appreciate every dollar donated.
To our existing members who faithfully donate what they can every year, "THANK YOU!" We expect nothing more than your continued support. There are thousands more who receive this same email that have never given us a penny. We hope to gain the support of those who have not in the past.
About Our Organization
We were formed specifically to stop SUWA from closing land to motorized access. We have been established since 1998. We represent ALL forms of motorized access. We have a small fulltime staff and many volunteers. We rely soley on donations to operate.
Utah Shared Access Alliance
www.usaall.org
www.takebackutah.org
PO BOX 50592
Provo, Utah 84605-0592
Utah Shared Access Alliance
801-830-9112
paulj
Expedition Leader
The Utah rep for the 2nd district, which covers most of the land in this bill, is a Democrat. His district also includes a portion of SLC. The current mix of SLC and rural SE Utah is a result of gerymandering by the Utah legislature some years ago.
I don't see any position statements by Rep. Matheson on this wilderness proposal. He is, though, opposed to nuclear waste shipments into (or through) the district, and also sponsored a recently passed bill that swapped BLM land for school trust fund lands.
http://www.suwa.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7497&news_iv_ctrl=1061
Sen. Bennett also sponsored this swap bill. He also sponsored a recent Washington Cty wilderness bill (part of the March omnibus), one that involved quite a bit of horse trading (giving federal land to counties and designating some trails/roads in exchange for wilderness designations).
http://www.suwa.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7245&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1061
I don't see any position statements by Rep. Matheson on this wilderness proposal. He is, though, opposed to nuclear waste shipments into (or through) the district, and also sponsored a recently passed bill that swapped BLM land for school trust fund lands.
http://www.suwa.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7497&news_iv_ctrl=1061
Sen. Bennett also sponsored this swap bill. He also sponsored a recent Washington Cty wilderness bill (part of the March omnibus), one that involved quite a bit of horse trading (giving federal land to counties and designating some trails/roads in exchange for wilderness designations).
http://www.suwa.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7245&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1061
Join the BRC and other lobby groups to fight the land grab. When the Wilderness Act was first conceived in 1964 it really meant something. In 1984 when the Desert Act was adopted into law, it melted with the Wilderness Act. At that point all eco freaks and their lawyers started pushing for closers everywhere. The problem with these closures is that nothing (bicycle, motorcycle, auto, hang glider, glider, wheel chair, scooter, skateboard...) will ever be allowed into the wilderness ever again unless exceptions are made for certain roads. When it is all done, over 50% of all public land will be wilderness from Mexico to Canada.
If you don't believe me, then look here at this wilderness map
http://www.wilderness.net/mapFull.cfm
Pay close attention to California. The only thing this map does not show is military land. if it did, you would see that we the public are left with scraps of "no commercial value" and "no minerals" land. Our government is taking away our land and they need to be confronted as to why. OHV's and motorcycles barely destroy the land and the animal life is not effected by ohv's either. It's all propaganda.