Mobile fab shop power???

[ProtoTribal]

Hi Everyone,

I know this isn't exactly directly expedition related but I highly respect the wealth of knowledge on this board and thought I'd see what your thoughts are about this. I'm setting up a small parts fabrication shop in a 24 foot box truck so I can build a prototype ultra light electric dirt bike. Working my regular job and designing this bike is eating up all of my time. I have a ton of research to do and could really use some pointers on getting mobile power for the shop. The frame will mostly be 1/8" or less 6061 but there are a few heavier welds required. I had a Longevity 160PI Tig/plasma back ordered but their new shipment is behind and I need to get started ASAP so I'm now looking into a Miller Diversion165. I figured I can at least tack the thick stuff and get it welded by someone with a larger machine. I'm trying to figure out the most cost effective way of powering the shop and thought some of you guys might have some pointers.

First, I'll list the equipment in the shop, then my ideas so far for power.

Equipment:
Miller Diversion 165 tig 50A max 230V
Micro Proto 4-Axis DSLS CNC Mill 10A 120V
drill press 4A 120v
belt/disc sander combo 6A 120v
bench grinder 4A 120v
computer/monitor for mill 5A 120v
fluorescent lights 5A 120v
dremel tool 2A 120v
heat gun 10A 120v
lipo charger 10A 120v
bench power supply 20A 120v
oscilloscope 5A 120v

Total 230V amps=50 11,500 watts peak
Total 120V amps=81 9720 watts peak

I'll only be running the welder with about 30A input most of the time and would like to be able to have the lights on, mill and computer running, and have another 15 amps for extras. I'd like a generator backed solar system so I only have to run the generator/engine while welding or pulling a bunch of amps from everything else. I can also run a small ext cord from the house to help offset some usage, or top the batteries off on heavy usage/low sun days. I'll be using the shop daily and would rather rely upon the truck's engine for generator power because it's more reliable than a small chinese generator engine, and it's easier to remote start the truck.

Actual usage 230v amps=30 6900 watts intermittently
120v amps=35 4200 watts for 5-8 hours/day 175-280aH/day

I'd rather not have a generator running all of the time and running a separate service to it is not possible. It needs to be mobile. My budget for truck power is around $2-3K but somewhat flexible.

Here's watt() I've come up with so far:

230V generator options:

Northern Tool 230V 10kw generator head mounted in place of AC compressor on the 366 gas engine that runs the truck and belt driven, or mounted in box and driven hydraulically from power steering pump with hydro motor spinning generator head. Will a big ford ps pump sustain 20hp?

genny head $900
belt drive $60 vs hydraulic(preferred) $300


or,

10,000 peak portable generator. not sure of brand or reliability, not integrated with truck, lots of negatives

$1000

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...&ci_sku=162661


120V options

8 Kaneka 60 watt panels $500ish
Sun SM3624 3600 watt continuous inverter charger $550
4 120ah sealed 12v agm batteries $1200

So, the best I have come up with so far is:

230V intermittent system
hydraulically driven NT Genny head $1200

120V 4800 watt continuous 5kw peak solar system $2250

Total $3450+ $300 for price fluctuations, shipping

That's way over budget for a system that might barely be suitable. As you can see, I'm in need of a little help. It would be awesome if I could just order a 15kw solar backup kit but that's definitely not in the budget! As least not yet!

Anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks,
Danny

 

[wrcsixeight]

I was waiting to read other's responses, but I see no Takers.

I think If I had your power needs, and your fabricating skills and tools, I would buy a big generator, Build a sound and vibration reduction enclosure for it, and mount it on the front of the trailer/

For the DC side of things, I would get a super high rated current MPPT charge controller, feeding a large bank of golf cart batteries. With such a charge controller, you can start with just a few panels, and add more as you can afford them, wired in series for minimum voltage drops and the ability to not have to keep upgrading the wire sizes as you add more solar panels.

These batteries would have a 2500 watt MSW inverter, and a smaller 300 watt true sign wave inverter for sensitive electronics or other things which do not like MSW. I'd also have a high amperage charger to blast these batteries when the solar cannot cut it, and your generator is already running.

It sounds like a fun project.

I would not be using my vehicle to power any AC loads, mainly because I do not want to Idle the vehicle, or rev it to achieve the amperage required. Generators are designed to do this. I'd like to easily drive the vehicle away from the trailer as well.

 

[spencyg]

I was waiting to read other's responses, but I see no Takers.

I think If I had your power needs, and your fabricating skills and tools, I would buy a big generator, Build a sound and vibration reduction enclosure for it, and mount it on the front of the trailer/

For the DC side of things, I would get a super high rated current MPPT charge controller, feeding a large bank of golf cart batteries. With such a charge controller, you can start with just a few panels, and add more as you can afford them, wired in series for minimum voltage drops and the ability to not have to keep upgrading the wire sizes as you add more solar panels.

These batteries would have a 2500 watt MSW inverter, and a smaller 300 watt true sign wave inverter for sensitive electronics or other things which do not like MSW. I'd also have a high amperage charger to blast these batteries when the solar cannot cut it, and your generator is already running.

It sounds like a fun project.

I would not be using my vehicle to power any AC loads, mainly because I do not want to Idle the vehicle, or rev it to achieve the amperage required. Generators are designed to do this. I'd like to easily drive the vehicle away from the trailer as well.

I think you would simplify your life immensely if you picked up a Welder/Generator outfit from Lincoln or Miller. They provide full welding capabilities (including pulse), while also giving complete power supply capability for any additional equipment you'll be running. This is what all the service trucks do up this way. It is the only way to go.

Spence

 

[bucketosudz]

X2 on what Spence said. They can be had fairly reasonable these days. I have a Hobart Champion 16 sitting in the back of my Box Van at this time. They weigh about 460lbs and can have the muffler plumbed outside. If you make an enclosure with a vent fan or two you would be just fine also. 8000 watts of power and welding capabilities all in one.

The one I have now is getting old, so parts are getting somewhat rare, so I think I have it sold. BUT... I will have another Miller someday!!

 

[ProtoTribal]

Sorry to leave you guys hanging. I subscribed but didn't get any emails.

Well, I got the funding approved and really haven't received any better suggestions than what I came up with.

I can't run a Lincoln/Miller engine driven unit for two reasons. 1. They are $5-6k just to start and way more welder than I need. 2. I can't run the welder to power the mill, lights, computers, grinder, etc. That's why it has to have the solar backup.

So, unless someone comes to the rescue with an awesome idea before tomorrow night, I'll probably be ordering the system as spec'd above.

 

[ProtoTribal]

Well, it seems that I'm a pioneer in the field of mobile solar shop power. I got a few gems of advice here and there but basically, just had to design the system on my own. I ended up ordering basically everything I posted above and put together a system with a 230V 40A generator head on the engine, a 5kw pure sine inverter, 600 watts/9 amps of solar panels, a MPPT charge controller, and 8-225ah batteries for under $5000. It should beet my needs perfectly. I'll post some pics when I get everything installed.

 

[failsafefabrication]

Re Mobile fab shop

Well...you could try the miller passport plus, it is not very cheap but it has the ability to run on battery power: http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/millermatic_passport_plus/ and might do the trick for you. As for shop power, golf cart batteries would be the way to go since they are designed to handle the vibration that being in a trailer would produce and give you the type of amperage that you will need in a demand situation. Since you are in a trailer you could go with 2v cells and dial in a huge reserve capacity and count on that to get you through the long fab times. If you are able to charge from a cord that would be most cost effective, however solar is an option if you can spare the cash. A really good source for solar panels is http://www.amsolar.com/ or www.arizonawindsun.com good luck!

 

[78Bronco]

Also you can't be running everything all at once. Plan for the welder and mill going at same time. I second the gas miller or hobart idea. That is smart money right there.

 

[ProtoTribal]

I appreciate the advice from everyone. Everything's here and it looks like it will all work fine. I've already finished the generator mount and have some wiring to do. Then I can build the solar panel rack and everything should be powered up by the end of the week.

Since my welder will be running exclusively from the truck's engine mounted generator and the mill will be running off solar power, I shouldn't have a problem running them simultaneously. I know that I'll have to stagger any loads that are on the solar system. Also, while the truck is running so I can weld, the alternator output can charge the battery bank. I can't wait to get it all together.

 

[ProtoTribal]

Update:

Everything's installed and works great. I've gone through three S size argon bottles running the welder on the engine mounted generator and the solar is more than adequate. I can run every tool in the shop, mill, grinders, lights, stereo, computer, and the batteries are still topped off when I shut down every day. I don't have time to do a full build thread right now but if anyone else is interested in building a solar powered mobile fab shop and has any questions, just ask!

 

[ProtoTribal]

I posted a few videos of the shop on youtube. Here are some links.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jotdl3kqHsk"]YouTube - rEVolution Lab Roof[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFoMoO0kB9A"]YouTube - rEVolution Lab engine mounted generator[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW2Hlz2X2FU"]YouTube - CLIP0005[/ame]