Grasslakeron
Explorer
Kinda funny that the people that design them say one thing, and the public fan boys say something else.
Modding a Wrangler to Match Land Cruiser Reliability?
- Thread starter KlausVanWinkle
- Start date
Kmrtnsn
Explorer
The legal requirement for a manufacturer would fall in that "seven" year window, required for the maintaining an inventory of spare parts, anything outside of that falls into the pure dumb luck category. Not sure who's *** that "25 years" came out of but it is pure BS. No manufacturer of anything wants a complicated product like an automobile to last twenty-five years. From a business standpoint that is just plain stupid. A producer of any product would rather sell you one or two or more replacement products in that time span. As for U.N. requirements, they are always spending other people's money on short notice, as long as an item last as long as the anticipated mission, they could care less.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Well I don't know you, you're on the Internet and from what I've read it's 25 years. Soooooo
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Well considering Toyota still manufactures parts for my 60 and I can still go to Toyota and order all kinds of parts for my 60. I would tend to believe it.
cruiseroutfit
Supporting Sponsor: Cruiser Outfitters
"Tech engineers" nor any other engineer in the US have anything to do with the design of the Land Cruiser. It's 100% designed in Japan by a team of senior engineers. I did a few events with a grip of Toyota US engineers, great folks and proud of their work... working on the Land Cruiser design team is like a NASA employee getting to go to the moon in their realm. Along with that I've spent time on the trail and in meetings with the chief engineer the Land Cruiser (Koyarisan) and later met one of the Land Cruiser senior engineers (Takehiko Tanaka, Project Manager/Engineer of the 200 Series Land Cruiser). While other Toyota platforms have quantitative goals. 10% better fuel economy, 10% lighter, 20% less money to make... the Land Cruiser is simply make it better, make it last longer and make it perform better than the last. They are in deed built with a 25 year service life in the harsh environments that inspire them i.e. underground mines of Australia, desert of Africa and the jungles of Central America. I've also met the Jeep lead engineer (Mark Allen) and toured one of their production facilities, along with the AEV production business (QMS) and the AEV Detroit facility. They too are doing some really neat things and the JK8's and AEV builds are impressive machines and kudos to Mark Allen and Jeep for continuing to produce a off-the-lot 4x4 that is capable, stylish and marketable.
Grasslakeron
Explorer
It's ok. People believe what they want. Loch ness, Bigfoot, ufos, gods, whatever....
The bottom line is the vehicle is built with parts from different vendors. Toyota tech engineers said, "nominal time to failure is 10 years on any of our vehicles".
As far as finding parts go, you can find parts for cars almost 100 years old. Does that mean henry ford designed the model t to be working for 100 years?
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Hmmmm. It seems as if I said I can go Tia Toyota dealer and get parts. Also Toyota still makes parts. Im not talking about Napa. But hey,people believe in what they want. Including Bigfoot and Loch Ness monster. You apparently missed the above post about how they are 25 years. That's from the people who engineered them. Oh well you're just a jeep fan boy. You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink.
toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
Just a jeep fan boy
Just a Toyota fan boy!
Just remember, on a quiet night in Jeep country you can hear Toyotas RUST!
twiisted71
Adventurer
OMG who cares! A vehicle's longevity tends to have a lot more to do with its following than its parts durability. IF its a vehicle people "lust" after they will go to great pains to keep them going or even bring them back from the brink of the crusher and drive their value to many times what they were when new. Model As and Ts, '60s Mustangs, ANY H1 Humvee, ANY Jeep or Toyota LC or '66-'77 Bronco or mid-year Corvette or '67-'69 Camaro, FJ40, Suzuki SAmurai and on and on. Seen any in a junkyard lately?? ALL of them wear out quickly when used as the TV commercials show them being used!! All need rebuilding of major components. NONE will go 25 yrs being "used" without intense "maintenance" schedules or outright overhauls. Will a LandCruiser last 25 yrs puttering around in the outback without major issues, SURE! Will it last 25 yrs running the Dakar Rally? NO, it would be lucky to last through one at race speed. 99% of UN crap is just puttering around or on highways. 25yrs is irrelevant. The typical pissing match measure of longevity tends to be nothing more than how long something lasts when it is used in a pampered mode that a Honda CRV could provide. The nice thing about the LC was its inline 6, like the Ford 300ci I6, they are like tractor engines. Not powerhouses ON PURPOSE so that they will last longer than the average engine. And they installed axles heavy enough for the vehicle at those HP levels. Diesels used to be this way in pickups in America, but public demand made the mfrs up the HP so that the engines no longer have that 500K+ mile expectation. Now they show them pulling 20K pounds up Pike's Peak at 80 mph while jumping over logs in the road! How long to you suppose those POSs would last if actually treated that way in the real world? The great thing about the LC and the offroad vehicles the rest of the world gets (not designed by US companies) is that they aren't built for speed (barring the Land Rover/BMW types). They are built with thrifty reliable diesels with matched drivelines for the vehicle's intended weights and geared to provide adequate highway speeds and great offroad tq. THey tend to not be designed for extended 80+ mph highway usage. Here in the US however........Jeeps came with 3.07 geared axles and "standard" trans ratios! (not even granny geared 1st!). The CJs T176 IIRC was the last with what I'd consider a true crawler gear trans. We started building JEEPS for the highway, offroad was relegated to second tier in importance. Land Cruisers have gotten more plush but they also stayed true to making them offroad worthy mpgs be damned. Heavy axles, lockers, inefficient/weak kneed antiquated I6s, real bumpers that can be replaced with HD units not integrated plastic/styrofoam garbage like US SUVs now have that are 1 piece to the rest of the front of the vehicle!
If you want something to live the life of a TV ad vehicle's representation it will be built like a full-on race rig---and still break continuously. Want a killer enclosed overland rig? Grab a 4 door land cruiser drop in a mechanical UNMODIFIED Cummins 6BT and corresponding 5 speed/TC and ride into the sunset cackling like the genius I'd know you to be. Wanna build a Jeep to rival LC reliablilty, no problem, grab a 4.0 YJ, bolt up a carburetor, rebuild the ax-15 trans, install a set of early Bronco spec axles and enjoy. So long as you don't overload the engine with too much tire and not enough gearing the 4.0 is a reliability marvel. One of the LC's reliability factors is that they are very seldom modified mechanically. IF they are lifted it is VERY little compared to what Jeepers tend to do, same with their tires. Jeepers tend to want tires 10" taller than stock and then ***** about how their axles don't hold up!!! Give me a break. You can't beat physics. Engineers/mfrs spent millions developing workable combinations. Extensively modifying one parameter and expecting one or several of the others to not develop problems is the definition of ignorance. How hard is it to find a stock looking XJ with 200K miles on it? How hard is it to find a 15 yr old (age of last XJ made) Jeep Wrangler that is still stock? If stock, chances are it is still running like a champ (4 cyl trans not withstanding). However it is likely modified and has had to have some major component rebuilt or replaced with an upgraded version. On the other hand how hard to find a 200K mile 'Cruiser? How modified mechanically are they? Yes they may have ARB bumpers, roof racks and offroad lights but other than slightly wider/grippier tires most are stock in the driveline department. Hmm whaddya think?
If you want something to live the life of a TV ad vehicle's representation it will be built like a full-on race rig---and still break continuously. Want a killer enclosed overland rig? Grab a 4 door land cruiser drop in a mechanical UNMODIFIED Cummins 6BT and corresponding 5 speed/TC and ride into the sunset cackling like the genius I'd know you to be. Wanna build a Jeep to rival LC reliablilty, no problem, grab a 4.0 YJ, bolt up a carburetor, rebuild the ax-15 trans, install a set of early Bronco spec axles and enjoy. So long as you don't overload the engine with too much tire and not enough gearing the 4.0 is a reliability marvel. One of the LC's reliability factors is that they are very seldom modified mechanically. IF they are lifted it is VERY little compared to what Jeepers tend to do, same with their tires. Jeepers tend to want tires 10" taller than stock and then ***** about how their axles don't hold up!!! Give me a break. You can't beat physics. Engineers/mfrs spent millions developing workable combinations. Extensively modifying one parameter and expecting one or several of the others to not develop problems is the definition of ignorance. How hard is it to find a stock looking XJ with 200K miles on it? How hard is it to find a 15 yr old (age of last XJ made) Jeep Wrangler that is still stock? If stock, chances are it is still running like a champ (4 cyl trans not withstanding). However it is likely modified and has had to have some major component rebuilt or replaced with an upgraded version. On the other hand how hard to find a 200K mile 'Cruiser? How modified mechanically are they? Yes they may have ARB bumpers, roof racks and offroad lights but other than slightly wider/grippier tires most are stock in the driveline department. Hmm whaddya think?
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toylandcruiser
Expedition Leader
So childish
In a previous life before I grew up I was a jeep guy and I sure could here them rusting away. And your precious country rated keeps in the top 10 to most likely rust. FYI
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Viggen
Just here...
Haha, this is great. Would read again. Jeepers calling Cruiserheads fan boys. Cruiserheads calling Jeepers fan boys. Amazing. The lines about Jeeps rusting with the insinuation that a Cruiser will not is hilarious.
The one thing that a Jeeper has that a Cruiser guy does not have is an unlimited aftermarket. That can be interpreted to be because the original product is so weak it needs it or because it gets used and more is expected of the platform. You can make a Jeep every bit as beefy as the starting point the is an LC without much hassle. Everything is bolt on.
Having owned and wheeled Jeeps, a D1, and a BJ60, I will say this: when I crawled underneath the 60 for the first time, EVERYTHING made the LR and Jeep look like Lego components. The axles, transfer case, u joints, calipers, everything are beefy. It is crazy. I buy the 25 year service life line.
Oh, and there is nothing thrifty about the V8 diesels in LCs. Nothing thrifty about a modern diesel.
The one thing that a Jeeper has that a Cruiser guy does not have is an unlimited aftermarket. That can be interpreted to be because the original product is so weak it needs it or because it gets used and more is expected of the platform. You can make a Jeep every bit as beefy as the starting point the is an LC without much hassle. Everything is bolt on.
Having owned and wheeled Jeeps, a D1, and a BJ60, I will say this: when I crawled underneath the 60 for the first time, EVERYTHING made the LR and Jeep look like Lego components. The axles, transfer case, u joints, calipers, everything are beefy. It is crazy. I buy the 25 year service life line.
Oh, and there is nothing thrifty about the V8 diesels in LCs. Nothing thrifty about a modern diesel.
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