Modern EV Torque Values vs Petroleum

nickw

Adventurer
I've seen some healthy torque numbers thrown around, the Hummer being the most recent at 11,500 ft-lbs max! How is that measured? At motor or at wheels?

For instant, modern Ford 7.3 w/475 ft-lbs, lets assume half of that is available around ~2k RPM, lets call it 240 ft-lbs.

Trans 1st; 4.7:1
Tcase; 2.5:1
Axles; 3.73:1

240 x 4.7 x 2.5 x 3.73 = 21,913 ft-lbs

Fully realize a 'Motor' has that torque from 0 RPM vs an 'Engine' that needs to be ramped up....but seems like the marketing department has done a good job here....
 

1000arms

Well-known member
"Designed for use in the Super Duty F-250 and F-350 trucks and other applications, the 7.3-liter engine pounds the ground with over 400 lb-ft of torque from 1,500 to 5,500 rpm, with the 475 lb-ft peak. Horsepower tops out at 430 at 5,500 rpm. With the right mods its personality could get a lot more powerful." is from:

 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
I'm interested in the new hybrid Tundra, don't know much about it but I really hope it has an eCVT (like just a scaled up Prius transmission) - I know it's a hybrid not an EV but I've been waiting for hybrid trucks to come into the picture and it seems they're finally doing that.
I'm kinda wishing someone would come out with a PHEV pick up to allow for EV driving. Just not a boost in torque.
 
  • Like
Reactions: plh

nickw

Adventurer
"Designed for use in the Super Duty F-250 and F-350 trucks and other applications, the 7.3-liter engine pounds the ground with over 400 lb-ft of torque from 1,500 to 5,500 rpm, with the 475 lb-ft peak. Horsepower tops out at 430 at 5,500 rpm. With the right mods its personality could get a lot more powerful." is from:

That is impressive and sig different than what I originally thought.
 

nickw

Adventurer
I did the same calculation when I saw that number, 11500 sounds like a big number but my little half ton appears to be good for 18000 or so first gear, low range.

It's also worth asking if any of that matters. I've done my share of feature trails in the Western USA in little carbureted imports that made 120-150 ft-lbs at the crank.. I'd run out of torque from time to time on the really tough climbs or some steps that would bind the drivetrain. But who's shopping an EV truck to run Dusy?

The number sounds impressive and that's all it has to do, look impressive. Nothing more to see really.

I'm interested in the new hybrid Tundra, don't know much about it but I really hope it has an eCVT (like just a scaled up Prius transmission) - I know it's a hybrid not an EV but I've been waiting for hybrid trucks to come into the picture and it seems they're finally doing that.
Hybrid trucks seems to make the most sense - Prius has proven to be reliable, I still don't understand why a HD version of that couldn't be viable for a truck....
 

plh

Explorer
After owning an Escape Hybrid (first gen) I'm convinced that arrangement of powertrain is the best for the real world. OK sure I do love rowing my own gears in a roadster with a high rev limit who doesn't? But for everything else the "Prius-style" eCVT is fantastic. Best of both worlds, gas-or-electric-or-both, very little to actually go wrong with it, minimum complexity. There's seriously almost nothing in there it's topologically a rear axle differential with the inputs and outputs flipped. No friction material to wear out. No dog clutches going in and out of mesh, no shift forks, none of that. Power delivery is seamless, hand-off between prime movers is seamless, torque management is seamless. We all have eyes, we can see the performance BEV's being marketed on their torque capabilities so I can think of no reason an upscaled eCVT would be unworkable. It would probably be necessary to do something nobody's done so far with a BEV or hybrid... include a frickin low range transfer case. Yes I know "bUt eLeCtRic HaS tHe tOrQuEs" ... sure it does but I don't know of any direct stator-to-wheel BEV's, gears are how you get more operating range from a given powertrain and while eCVT's have effectively infinite ratios they do still have a fixed maximum torque capability and ranged gearboxes are the proven way to fix that.




On a vehicle with eCVT there aren't really 2 powertrains there's the gas engine and there's a transmission that can also store energy. The transmission has fewer moving parts than any manual or automatic conventional transmission and zero wear parts, clutches or anything that is taken into or out of mesh. The transmission happens to include two electric motors but they're all just part of the same housing and not exotic or fragile. The motors can move the vehicle with the engine powered off and the engine can move the vehicle with a flat battery by using the series output motor as a generator to retard the parallel motor. They also can eliminate complexity elsewhere because you don't need a starter motor, you don't need a turbo to get driveability out of a low powered motor, and you can run the gas engine within an optimal range of speeds so it doesn't need VVT or variable geometry intake manifolds or other BSFC-widening trickery.

Some hybrids have an extra powertrain for example toyota highlander hybrid has no driveshaft from front to back and the rear power unit is its own independent drivetrain. I am less inclined to like that both because it's redundant complexity and also it means the rear drive unit has a very limited amount of power so if you have plenty of traction on the rear, none on the front, and you need a lot of power to get moving you're out of luck. I think it's some comically low amount of power too like 15 horsepower. The first gen Escape PHEV had a more typical auto-4wd arrangement with a single unified hybrid powerplant; engine and motor power were equally available to front and rear drive axles by conventional PTU and driveshaft.

Yeah I get it. I own an Outlander PHEV
 

1000arms

Well-known member
That is impressive and sig different than what I originally thought.
Good low end torque! Ford uses the 7.3L gasoline "Godzilla" engine in the F-750. :) The diesel option puts out even more torque. :cool:

I wonder how many miles/gallon could be achieved with an electric drive, battery pack, regenerative barking, and a SMALL diesel (that is tuned to run at maximum efficiency) to charge the battery pack? It will probably need friction brakes too for safety, but, with careful driving, the above combination might be very effective.
 

billiebob

Well-known member
Thing with electricity is the number of ways to recharge. Regenerative braking is just the start. Shock absorbers can be electric resistance too and tuneable shocks matching changing road conditions. Any movement you want to control can generate electricity.

The big gains will be eliminating all the excess. No radiator, no transmission, wheel end motors eliminate the entire driveline. No exhaust. Even no batteries if we get to hydrogen powered electric cars. And then no need to recharge, just fill with hydrogen as fast as we fill with gasoline but get the virtually maintenance free electric power. .... and zero emissions.
 

Lovetheworld

Active member
Whatever torque the EVs actually have, it is typically more than enough for pulling trailers or not requiring low gearing. Generally speaking.
 

billiebob

Well-known member
Benefits of electric lawn mowers..... this one cuts the lawn every second day, it docks itself to recharge and never needs attention, it even stays parked if it is raining. You never need to touch it.

Not sure how much torque it generates but it beats the heck out of my gas job.

 

calicamper

Expedition Leader
Benefits of electric lawn mowers..... this one cuts the lawn every second day, it docks itself to recharge and never needs attention, it even stays parked if it is raining. You never need to touch it.

Not sure how much torque it generates but it beats the heck out of my gas job.

Wife talking to her mom. Bob? Oh yeah he’s out mowing the lawn again.

Bob, is in the shop buying more stuff to build out the truck???.
The robo Lawn mowers are responsible for the increase in overlander builds?
 

85_Ranger4x4

Well-known member
Benefits of electric lawn mowers..... this one cuts the lawn every second day, it docks itself to recharge and never needs attention, it even stays parked if it is raining. You never need to touch it.

Not sure how much torque it generates but it beats the heck out of my gas job.


I have a Roomba.

Great idea, still loves to get stuck under the couch and in the dining room chair legs. Lord knows what trouble one would get into if turned loose outside...

EV's also are usually rated at the motor which is closer to the wheels.

If you start calculating a ICE torque at the flywheel and multiplying to first gear in the trans, low range and then when the axle ratio you can get some pretty crazy numbers too.
 

nickw

Adventurer
Thing with electricity is the number of ways to recharge. Regenerative braking is just the start. Shock absorbers can be electric resistance too and tuneable shocks matching changing road conditions. Any movement you want to control can generate electricity.

The big gains will be eliminating all the excess. No radiator, no transmission, wheel end motors eliminate the entire driveline. No exhaust. Even no batteries if we get to hydrogen powered electric cars. And then no need to recharge, just fill with hydrogen as fast as we fill with gasoline but get the virtually maintenance free electric power. .... and zero emissions.
I'm not an expert on EV's, but I know the Teslas have cooling systems and differentials and based on what I've seen, the motors / drivetrain is more complex that I would have thought. Not saying that it approaches the complexity of a ICE, but there is still a lot going on and a lot to go wrong. As they get more complex with LIDAR and as you point out shocks, more complex software, wireless charging, etc....wondering if reliability will get better? Mechanical reliability yes, system reliability, not sure...
 

Todd n Natalie

OverCamper
Benefits of electric lawn mowers..... this one cuts the lawn every second day, it docks itself to recharge and never needs attention, it even stays parked if it is raining. You never need to touch it.

Not sure how much torque it generates but it beats the heck out of my gas job.

Hmm... The lines didn't look straight.

Also, it stopped pretty short of the fence. Is there a robotic weed eater to follow it and finish the job?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
185,255
Messages
2,872,031
Members
224,251
Latest member
griffthecar
Top