Moving 7,000lbs...rims & tires ?

[Needin'Advice]

First off, I am typing on my phone while kids are playing, so I make no promises to the accuracy of my writing. Secondly, in a previous post I had decided to work on my 2003 silverado instead of searching for an old square body burb. Since then I have begun some research and was planning a cognito leveling kit and some rims and tires sometime mid to late summer. The other day I walked out to a flat tire and found out that one of the factory aluminum rims was dented and cracked. Perhaps my plans moved up. So I now face the decision of jumping ahead with the plans, or looking for a used rim that will get replaced in a few months anyway.

Regardless, I am going to make some decisions so about rims and tires eventually. I know there are a lot of "steelie" fans here and I understand why. My biggest concern is that I don't do a great job of cleaning my truck wheels and rust is inevitable. And to be honest, a lot of the steel rims I see don't really appeal to me that much. I do like a lot of the black alloy ones out there, even if another thread here would consider them "bro" rims. I am a 38 year old government teacher, the opposite of a bro. Stock rims are 16x6.5

As far as tires, I would probably be fine with all terrains, but do like the look and additional traction off road of mud terrains, even if I may only need the extra grip a few times a year. Aesthetically, think I want tires that are about the overall size of 285/75r16, but once I level it up, I might want to be just a hair bigger.

As with everything, cost and quality will need to be balanced, and I am always in search of value. So here are some of my questions about my 2003 silverado 2500hd crew cab diesel that weighs 7,000+ lbs:

What type and size rim should I be considering? Stick with 16 or go 17 or 18? Cost and availability of tires is important.

Do I need to worry about load capacity of rims, or will any 8 lugs be substantial enough?

Do I look at E rated only, or the actual capacity in lbs?

What tires will hold up to the weight of the truck? I would like to get more than the 25k I got out of my previous general grabbers. The current Cooper at3's are doing slightly better, but have required more plugs that I am happy with.

What am I not considering that I should be?

I am most interested in people that have experience with big heavy vehicles. If you 80k out of a set on your samurai, that doesn't necessarily translate to my needs(although I will certainly listen). Truck is mostly local driving, gravel to highway, tows and does some work and gets about 10k miles per year. Will hopefully increase its role as the camping vehicle as well. I also have a long steep gravel driveway that seems to tear chunks out of tires.

Pictures welcomed and encouraged.

Thanks in advance.

 

[leelikesbikes]

st maxx

im pretty happy with the cooper st maxx on my dodge 2500, im running the stock chrome steel wheels. ive thought about running a set of alloys just because i like the look better, but around here the de-icer absolutely destroys aluminum wheels. my steelies are super easy to maintain, just acid wash once a year and they look new. if your new wheels you have more options now with a 17, im not a fan of anything bigger than that though.

 

[Korben]

Style, tread, and size are all personal choices, nothing I can add, but...
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17 is now the size to have on a 4WD pickup that will see heavy loads. MUCH more styles, sizes, and heavier rated tires available.
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NO don't just specify "E rating" E rating doesn't actually mean anything. Look at two numbers weight rating in pounds and max pressure. Of the two max pressure is actually more important but they are directly correlated, pressure X contact area = weight. So big tire plus high max pressure equals more max weight.
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Edit...
FWIW I also tend to lean towards a taller skinnier tire, but you can only go so tall. IMO tall and skinny is more versatile and better on fuel. Air'm up for highway, digging through shallow mud/snow, etc. Air'm down to float on top of sand, deep mud/snow, and wrap around rocks. A wide tire is always wide, a tall skinny tire can be either.
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Also a HUGE fan of internal dynamic balancing media like dynabeads. Long ago(7-8 years) I bought a set of Swampers(TrXus MT) and put them on my daily(F350), Swampers aren't known for balancing well, wearing well, or even being round. But I put dynabeads in them, as a result I've gotten some amazing life out of them, they've never given me any balancing issues, they've worn very even, I've never put a single wheel weight on them, and the beads look new still, I'll be able to reuse them.
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To my mind the key to long tire life is dynabeads and regular(weekly-ish) alignment checks. Done simply by checking for feathering by running your hand across the tire.

 

[IdaSHO]

7k is nothing.

That's what most full size 1-tons weigh EMPTY, and is less than 2000lbs per wheel/tire

Any 8-lug wheel and load D or E tire combo will suffice.



With the camper I weigh in right at 10k, with nearly 6k of that on the rear axle.


Because of this, I run a wider tire, to afford a slightly wider margin of safety with regards to tire load capacity.

Same tire, same diameter, a wider tire will have greater load capacity.


Going from a 235 to a 265 gained me nearly 400lbs of capacity for each tire.

 

[p nut]

I like OEM rims in alloy. I try to find the best looking OEM wheels (if my truck didn't come with them). Don't worry about strength--they'll be plenty strong enough for what you're doing. Stick with LR E (or maybe D) and you'll be fine. I personally use BFG KO's but there are other good choices out there.

 

[1stDeuce]

I'll second the notion that sticking with factory wheels is a good plan. Some of the 2007-10 GM trucks had 17x7.5 aluminum wheels that look pretty good, and will work better with a slightly wider tire. If corrosion is an issue, just fog them with some satin black. I used some sort of metallic black to paint the wheels on my Jeep a while back and they look almost EXACTLY like the "teflon" wheels you can buy. Yeah, it can wear off over time. So what? It's cheap!

I plasti-dipped the wheels 17x7.5's currently on my GMC. It's held up well, but I will never do that again. Way easier (and cheaper) to just paint them. Even if there's a little corrosion under the clearcoat, you can't tell once they're painted. Just scotchbrite them, and wipe with acetone if you use any shiny tire gook. that way the paint will stick.

The difference between E and D ratings is the max pressure that the tire is rated for. E is 80psi, D is 65psi. Weight ratings vary depending on the tire, so that's the important part. Larger size D tires are rated to carry more weight than smaller sized E tires. These days, D's are getting rare anyway, since most trucks now have TPMS that requires at least ~70psi in the rear tires to keep the light off, most manufacturers are making all tires that might get tossed on a 3/4 or 1 ton E rated. Doesn't mean you can't run less in them.

As for tread, find something you believe in. If you are skeptical before you mount them, they'll have to be miracle tires to impress you. If you always run Goodyears, stick with goodyear. I have had incredible luck with Cooper's, so that's what I run. I do love the 255/80R17 size, but it's only available in a STMaxx and the super old (and super-narrow!) ST. I have the Maxx's on my Jeep in 255/85R16, and I love them. The 265/70R17 Fun Country's on my truck are half gone. I'll probably replace them at the end of summer. Might go 255/80R17 ST Maxx's, but I think AT3's would be fine, and probably wear better. Plus they're usually cheaper if you get them during the summer sale.

Post up what you end up with!
Chris

 

[Korben]

The difference between E and D ratings is the max pressure that the tire is rated for. E is 80psi, D is 65psi.

This is not true, there is no direct correlation. While I've never seen a 80psi or higher tire that wasn't rated a E or higher, there are plenty of "E" rated tires rated a 65psi or less. Nor can I recall seeing a D rated tire rated as high as 65psi. For the most part if it's 65 to 80 it's labelled a E, but you can't count in it.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

My 1998 GMC K1500 half ton often carries loads of stone that are heavier than 4,000 pounds, with no significant problems. Truck has been upgraded with late-model GMC 17x7.5 forged alloy wheels, 33" E-rated Nitto Grapplers, and hydro-boost brakes from a one-ton truck. Suspension and steering are in perfect condition, but rebuilt to factory spec with mostly Moog components. Your best value proposition will be a set of factory take-off forged wheels and some fairly large E-rated tires, AT or MT. My Dodge is a 3/4-ton with 17x8.5 Hummer H2 wheels and 35" LR-E Toyo AT-IIs, with Firestone air bags in the rear. That truck is about 8,000 pounds dry, because of all the crap I carry all the time. If the H2 wheels fit your hubs, they are a good choice and have sensible offset. Whatever you do, stick with forged wheels and LR-E tires. Castings and LR-D may work, but give yourself some extra capacity.

 

[drewactual]

my rig weighs in at 8700# dry, and is never less than 10k# at any point with all the crap I have on it...

ply rating follows along with load index, but they are exclusive of one another.

I just dropped some tires (Yoko Geolander AT/S in 37x12.5x18) w/ a load index of 123 but D ply (GREAT highway tire for an AT tread as they are light and have only 10ish" of contact patch which really allowed low rolling resistance), and put an E rated tire on (Coop STT Plus- 37x12.5x20) that have a load rating of 126, i think it is. The Coops have some REALLY tough sidewalls (six ply? the 'armor' coop brags about), where the Yoko had REALLY thin walls, maybe only three ply there.

driving anywhere, highway, off road, city- the E's don't 'wiggle' and there is little wallow. That's just as much about the sidewall as it is the tread and shoulder region, though. The D's can carry almost as much as the E's, but don't weigh near as much so rotational weight is mucho lower... there is a difference of 4mpg's between these shoes, and I slap the D's back on when I'm planning on stretching out my legs on the highway. other than that, the sure footed and well planted E's with those armored and shorter sidewalls (18's vs 20's) stay on there...

but anyway, don't get hung up on ply's- safety is covered by the load index... ply's account for how much air you can cram in them (hence pressure) and how tough they are... that's pretty much it...

mebbe you can extract some ideas for what you need from my experiences comparing the two....

as far as wheels, you'd have to look far and wide to find a wheel in eight lug x 180+mm, 8.5+ inches that won't hold what you need it to hold. Some weigh more than others, some are purtier than others... whatever floats your boat on that one.

 

[ExplorerTom]

You mention different wheel diameter and value.

Go to tirerack.com and price out similar overall diameter tires in the different wheel sizes. The choice should be clear on which are cheaper.

 

[Ducky's Dad]

You mention different wheel diameter and value.

The shorter the sidewall, the less ride compliance you will have. Shorter sidewalls will handle better on pavement with lighter loads. Taller sidewalls will work better offroad and ride better onroad. For your truck, 17s are the sweet spot. Anything larger is just for looks and will compromise function. It's a truck, not a mall crawler.

 

[1stDeuce]

This is not true, there is no direct correlation. While I've never seen a 80psi or higher tire that wasn't rated a E or higher, there are plenty of "E" rated tires rated a 65psi or less. Nor can I recall seeing a D rated tire rated as high as 65psi. For the most part if it's 65 to 80 it's labelled a E, but you can't count in it.

Korbin, for standard LT size tires, there IS direct correlation. Large (35" and up) size tires occasionally get higher load ratings at a reduced pressure, but for a standard size tire, an E will be rated for max load at 80psi, and a D at 65psi. That has been the industry standard for a long time now.

There are subtle differences between the two in terms of the thickness of the wire used in belting, which can lead to "tougher" construction on the E-rated tire. This is done to hold the higher pressure, mostly.

The old "ply" ratings really don't apply anymore. Modern radials can have two or three actual plies in the sidewall, and up to four in the tread, and be rated as what use to be a six ply or even an eight ply tire. Or they can have more plies, and be rated as a 2-ply tire, like Cooper's STMaxx in LR C. (Still has 3 sidewall plies, which make the construction more like a D or E...)

In terms of the actual load carrying capability (Load Index), it depends on both the size of the tire and the load range. At the same size, an E will have a higher Load Index (can carry more weight) than a D. But if you go up just a few sizes, it's possible to get a D that carries more than your standard size E. Just make sure you've got more tire than weight that you plan to carry, but if you're not putting stock 245's on it, and careful not to get a C rated tire, you likely won't have an issue.

For example, a standard 245/75R16 LR E is rated for 3042lbs at 80psi. A LR D 285/75R16 Cooper ST (Old style tire) is rated to carry 3305lbs at 65psi. That's 250lbs MORE weight capacity on a tire certified at a lower pressure, and hence lower load rating. Notice that there are no D rated AT3's, and very few newer designs from other manufacturers have D ratings either. That's due to TPMS as I pointed out above, so as time goes on, most mfg's will phase out D range altogether, and what we're talking to death right now won't even be an option.

As for stability of the tire, a wider tire on a narrow rim is generally less stable than a narrow tire on a wide rim. Stay withing the tire mfg's recommendation. Mud type tires with tall tread blocks can also feel fairly loose, particularly when run at too high a pressure for the load. AT style tires are generally more planted, due mostly to having more tread on the road and less tread depth, so less "squirm" in the tread. Lower sidewall profiles will also feel more stable. (And generally ride a little harsher.)

For modern LT tires, a LR D (if you can find one) generally has the same construction (number of actual belting plies) as a LR E tire, but uses slightly thinner wire in the plies. It also may use slightly less rubber to protect the plies. A LR D tire will "flex" easier at lower pressure than a LR E tires because of the more flexible wire used in belting. But that doesn't correspond well to "stability" in my experience... Stability generally has more to do with tire and rim sizes. Cooper ST Maxxes got dinged for lack of stability by several people when they first came out. Of course, they made no mention of pressure, or tire/wheel size... And most came from nearly bald A/T's (very stable, no tread to squirm) to an almost M/T tread, probably aired up to 80psi on an empty truck, and therefore very squirmy, particularly while coated with mold release compound for the first few hundred miles.

Drewactual has it right. Look at the Load Index and make sure it's high enough. Load Range does not necessarily correspond to Load Index. Fortunately, if you're going up in size from OE, it's pretty tough to get a lower capacity tire, or at least one with a low enough capacity to cause problems.

 

[IdaSHO]

For example, a standard 245/75R16 LR E is rated for 3042lbs at 80psi. A LR D 285/75R16 Cooper ST (Old style tire) is rated to carry 3305lbs at 65psi.

the width difference is primarily what gives those tires different load capacities.

For a given size and PSI, I dont think you will EVER find a D rated tire with a higher load rating than an E.

For example, looking at the Toyo load index chart....
Lets look at

LT245/70R17 and LT265/70r17

Both have tires available in C, D and E ratings.

Then comparing the two sizes, you can easily see that the wider of the two tires provides a higher load rating at the same PSIs

Tire PSI:

C @ 50
D @ 65
E @ 80

Taken from here FYI....

https://toyotires2-1524598101.netdn...ication_of_Load_Inflation_Tables_20151020.pdf

 

[1stDeuce]

That is all exactly what I was saying.

 

[IdaSHO]

I know, I caught my error after re-reading and edited.

Thanks :ylsmoke: