MTB, anyone riding a 29er?

[dieselcruiserhead]

pretty sweet new offering from Intense, will be arriving in the next couple months... What is nice about the 4" Intense Spider 29er is it actually has short stays. Looks like they couldn't keep them short with this 5" bike but still pretty cool IMO.. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=262193

 

[Pokey]

the large in that has a 24.75 tt which should be perfect-not sure what the wheelbase will be with a 71.5HA but the VPP on the spiders is very nice. Good bearing size for durability. My riding bud finished La Ruta recently on his 26spider and loved it- no problems after 30hours in the saddle in the most abusive condtions.

The one issue will be how the Fox29 axle to crown height is going to get that front end up for you(with you sitting so tall on a large) Id email intense and ask them if they are specing that geometry on the Fox axle to crown height.

ventana makes a nice crown base spacer that you can run to gain .5 inch under the headtube--and then possibly keep a reasonable number of spacers under your stem if the whole setup feels waaaay too forward on the large size.

Im guessing if they do an XL size- given the ha and chainstays---it might end up being humongously long in the wheelbase.....but it sounds like the large tt at 24.75 might be the way to go if you can make it fit.

You will love the VPP for climbing and the descending is very smooth. 5" of vpp will be smoother than many 6" travel bikes on fast choppy stuff(due to wheel path travel). not quite as plush and forgiving on the big hits(but you dont have issue with big hits if you are keeping up with your buddies on F/s with your hardtail) ----and much nicer if you are transitioning from a hardtail into F/S.

In my mind tho- once you get into F/S- id let the suspension do the work on a 26"bike versus the wheel on a 29er which may be a weak link for your size. For about the same weight as your 29er setup--youd be able to run a Fox36 Talas-with a 26" 5.5VPP and have the much burlier setup of the two with better geometry for climbing in the 100mm mode......and sick ass descending in 160mm mode. Id go find someone who has the Fox36talas and then ride something with the Fox29. The added length of the Fox29 which is a 32mm stantion is going to make it muuuuch more noticably flexy for someone your size compared to the Talas36(speculation having not ridden the Fox29yet.) I have ridden the talas36 and can say its in a league of its own for 235lb guys like us. At 5.1lbs nothing comes close.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

cool good to know. I was thinking the White Brothers 135 fork with the through axle.. Should be nice and stiff. Again what I am coming off of those I might not even notice the difference though. I caught the last possible moment to be biking here in Park City, before winter, last night. First day off today in days, was hoping to go out today but storm rolled in last night, snowing here in town as we speak.. So last night I left with lights in the Camelbak at about 6PM after work and was out until 9PM when the weather came out. Was killer, just a little cool for the first couple hours... Gorgeous... Then all hell broke loose.. This is what I came back to at the car.. Never been riding in really bad weather, was actually a blast! I bet there is 6" up there already...

 

[Pokey]

The Fox29 is specd for 500mm axle to crown ratio which may end up slackening that head angle slightly---and lift the bb some......which could be the saving grace for that geom which is tooo racey unless you are doing loops on a groomer racetrack.

Intense measures the wheelbase based on an 80mm fork at 450mm axle to crown -----so 50mm (2.25 inch more axle to crown) with the Fox F29 would take off a degree and half or so and put you in the right range imho as 73HA is just wrongo.
The other nice thing is that the Fox29 on that will increase the bb height from its racey 12.5 which is on the low side for a 4" travel bike.

You should end up with a bit more wheelbase with the Fox29 from the 44" which is claimed at the 80mm fork axle to crown length of 450mm. Id say your looking at an inch or so more which would be okay.

The only thing i worry about is the seat angle of 73 which will drop to sub72deg with that Fox..........and given your tall seatheight......it may put your weight too far back for serious climbing imho. Another one that has to be ridden to really understand how your tall saddle position is going to effect bar drop (headtube length) and climbing (seat angle).

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

cool this is all good info.. Yes that 73 degree head angles is crazy. And the low BB, that is the same height as my hardtail.. On the 5.5 they moved away from that a little with a 71 angle, same as the other guys basically.. But truth is I think I am moving a little farther from that Intense, I dunno...

Anyway I was emailing Dave Turner about different bike setups/combos and called him up this morning, must have talked to him a good 45 minutes. Pretty cool that answers the phone there, sort of talked my ear off! Anyway they offered up a dealer position to my good friend's LBS that I am doing the marketing for (so if anyone needs a killer deal on a bike let me know)... www.UintaBicycles.com pretty good funky LBS in Kamas (next town over) that has a real community around it and a bunch of really really good riders in and out regularly... Going to preserve some of the character there but build a really sick site for them. They sort of have a cult following and sell a lot of Ventanas mostly currently...

Anyway started talking about the different models and angles and everything and liked a lot of what he had to say... We also had a lot of discussion on 650B which he says he thinks will probably catch on fairly slowly though it does make sense. He was saying if I really want an AM 5" 29er bike I should get the new Lenz lunchbox that just came out. Also uses a 150mm rear axle... Then White Brothers I guess has a new 150mm fork. And togehter you can still keep it in the high 20s as far as weight...

I have been doing web stuff for a living for hte last few years. Got a real job a couple months ago and am having a good time but fun to do some stuff on the side particularly in the bike industry..

Cheers,
A

 

[gearguywb]

I have a Niner One9 SS and a Turner Sultan. I am a fan of big wheels....there is a lot of BS on both sides of the argument. For me they do "roll" better as far as keeping momentum. Yes, there certainly is a difference in gearing (10% +/-). Wheels are VERY important. My first ride on a Moots MootoX was horrible. I had put a set of very cheap wheels on it just to get a ride in. The added weight felt like I was dragging an anchor. Switched to a set of I9's and WOW...what a difference!

Not often mentioned is that to reap the benefits of a 29'er requires a change in riding style for some. You need to use the wheels size advantage to carry momentum into turns and over obstacles. A different approach from a 26 inch bike where you might slow and then accelerate through.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Very cool.. I am pretty much sold, I test-rode a Lenz Behemoth that belongs to a local guy (what a ride) and have been taking out a Gary Fisher 29er.. Did a hard ride last night on my 26er and it rides great but coluld not help but think how much better the 29er will be... I will keep you all posted, it will be some time but I will probably end up with one or the other... I dig those I-9 wheels, they look great and strong and nice and light.. I am on the light wheels bandwagon for sure....

 

[RHINO]

hey dre:wavey: i will most likely end up with a 29 in the future at some point,,, i really like the way they roll and i'm not doing the real ruff stuff anymore. as i get older i am using my bike less like a rock rig and more like an explore rig. and i cant think of a better rig than a 29er rolling along all day.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Cool Rhino...! I have a couple potential web projects brewing right now that might yield free or cheap gear... We did end up getting Turner at the local shop I do work for, but I'm now leaning more towards the Ventana... Again will keep you guys posted! I finally got a new digital camera over Christmas, I need to post up my two little Specialized in the bike pics thread... Been riding to work again, usually fairly cold but makes the day great

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Well I got a 29er...

A Gary Fisher X-Caliber geared hardtail frame that I am going to build into a single speed. Brand new '07 model that I got with a lightly used Kenda Nevgal 2.2 and a Maxxis Ignitor 2.1 and a almost brand new Surly Karate monkey fork for $200 off a guy from Craigslist Boulder. Screamin' deal Already arrived, I am exstatic.

My goal (similar to my S-works single speed) is to build it as light but as cheap as possibly.. I'm about $330 into it with a cheapo but decent and light Bontrager single speed wheelset I picked up; goal is to be under $450 or 500 total and hopefully about 23 lbs or so It will be fully rigid for now but may eventually put a suspension fork under it up front depending on how much time I spend on it.

73 seat angle 17.2" chainstays (fairly short for a 29er), 71.5 degree angle (all very similar to my Specialized bikes). Great all around X-C geometry, Gary Fisher's "Genesis" geometry. Frame weighs only 3.6 lbs. This will be my first Gary Fisher (aka Trek). Will gear about 32/20 or so, Avid BB7 mechanicals and pretty basic. The frame has old school decaling and this killer black flack metallic color that really shines in the light and looks great... Also has killer double butting and some near tapering in the tubes before, great looking and super technical frame IMO. Once I get it built up I'll post up! Attached pic is from the craigslist ad with the Fork it came with. For cheezy cosmetics I orded up a white Zion steel fork on sale at Jenson right now for $40, that will make it look a little better...

I decided to give my '01 Stump Jumper hard tail to my little brother as a birthday present... It was hard to let go of the frame - it would have been a killer winter bike and has some nice features on it and it is not beat up too badly, but feel that it was an awesome bike but I outgrew it as a whole and also had to have the seat way forward because of the seatpost out so high and the short chainstays. It will serve him well and hopefully get him into MTB...

This Gary Fisher bike will basically be my "trainer" and if I am disciplined this summer I will ride it a lot and because its SS will hopefully make me a much stronger and faster rider... So easy to cheat with gears. No excentric BB -- which I don't mind at all, because it is a geared frame. I'm hoping I can find the magic gear otherwise a DMR chain tensioner I have will be slapped on

______________________________________

Still strongly weighing the 4" versus 5" issue for a trail bike, here is a relevant thread from MTBR: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=380310
I am still all over the place between the Ventana and Turner... I was thinking Turner yesterday but am leaning Ventana for 5" option (but the extra $$) today

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Some photos of the frame and wheelset I just took. Note the tapering in the frame tubes and metalic paint that I dig

Tires are Kenda Nevegal 2.2 and Jones ACX tubeless 2.2. Rims are Bontrager Duster 28mm wide tubeless (mounted with tubes currently) and craptastic Bontrager generic singlespeed hubs of some sort... Current cog is 18 tooth...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Just went through an re-read this entire thread. Very good stuff here. Also pardon my long and blathering posts. Also some of it (in regard to "straight spokes") doesn't even make sense to me. It is my lack of understanding of the technology (I was talking about radial versus 2 or 3 cross spoke lacing - for some reason I thought radial was stronger).

But anyways, some good news... I am doing the new web site for White Brothers. So I am pumped, I will be doing some product trade out so that is a free high end fork for whichever full suspension bike I end up with.

As far as geometry on the smallest 29er frames it is about 17.25" and these full suspension Ventana and Turner bikes are 18.2". The good Lenz bikes have a bent seat tubes and also have 17" chain stays. With my height the seat tube sticks out a lot so the longer chain stays are nice actually as far as recuding front wheel lift because my COG is so high.

I don't think I can go wrong with either option. My goals are now are 1) convince Lenz they need a new web site also (they do, badly). or 2) price out the Ventana and Turner options. If it makes sense I will order the Ventana with the possibly 5" option otherwise I will be ordering the Turner which should be $200-$300 cheaper.

I will do the XL 21" option because of the big wheelbase of the XXL units. The Turner has a XXL that is 46.something inches but I think the only XXL 23" option I'm considering is the Lenz which still keeps the wheelbase under 45.5" and offers a 23" seat tube that is slightly better for my longer legs.

 

[Fishenough]

I've been on a 29er single speed for about a year now. Absolutely love it. There are some 29er myths that need correction:

Myth: 29ers don't work on technical trails.
Truth: They actually work great on technical trails. As long as you can keep even modest forward motion, the wheels want to roll over everything. On techy climbs, that front wheel seems to want to hold a line really well and resists deflecting off every obstical.

Myth: 29ers are for fast fire roads
Truth: 29ers maximize even slow speed momentum. They work great on tight, twisty, technical single track as long as you maintain at least a walking pace. Their advantage is almost LESS on fire roads.

Myth: 29ers accellerate slowly and descellerate rapidly in part due to the additional weight.
Truth: Bunk. Lab studies have proven that the small added weight in rotational components isn't a big deal since bicycle accellerations are so small. i.e. 2mph to 7mph and not 0-60mph. Those big wheels will reach speed as quickly as 26" wheels given the same wattage input.

Myth: 29ers handle like dump trucks
Truth: They can handle great, but you have to be VERY careful which 29er you get. The tail end on many 29ers gets long and you end up clipping your rear wheel mid/inner turn. Short stays are critical on a 29er to keep the handling tight. Most full sus 29ers get a little long in the tail so that does make for a truckish handling bike. Not many people make a tight rear end on a full sus 29er.

Myth: 29ers have less traction
Truth: The inverse is true. The larger diameter actually increases the footprint of the tire by 8%, primarily in length which gives 29ers fantastic traction. You feel that on hard pressed turns and as the rear wheel hooks up.

Myth: 29ers are for big guys
Truth: Several guys I ride with are sub 5'10" and rock out on 29ers.

Myth: 29ers put the rider too high
Truth: That's just BS spawn by people who don't understand frame building 101. The BB height can be as high or low as a 26" wheeled bike.

29ers are awesome. I've been racing XC for 20 years and 29ers make for fantastic rides. One thing to mention - 29ers love momentum, even at 2mph. As such, a single speed in a 29er format is a thing of beauty. The one gear forces you to maintain proper riding finesse and to hold momentum. Those wheels love that.

Drawbacks: Sure, with all things there are compromises. If you like big drops, huge hits and frequently need to launch over large logs, rocks or old ladies, those wheels do feel pretty earth bound sometimes. The slightly longer wheel base makes the front wheel a little heavy. I wouldn't take on Vancouver trails with a 29er, but for fast, technical single track.....29ers rock.

I love mine. I'll never go back to 26" hoops. Just think of 28" tires on a Jeep vs 33" tires. Bigger wheels just roll over stuff better.

Now this is my opinion - Best inventions for cycling during my 22 years of racing: Clipless pedals, suspension forks, carbon fiber road wheels, 29 inch mountain wheels.

BTW, have to thank you because i just copy and pasted your post for the umpteenth time (I always give you credit). You put that very well and I'd about given up defending 29's. Riding with fused vertebra, suspension and the 29s have kept me on a bike and on the trails.

Cheers

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Dave you may get a kick out this.. Finally took the plunge this morning and actually ordered up a new 650b frame Ventana that is coming out called the El Bastardo. Here is a relevant thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=381463

Details on it, basically the benefits of the larger wheels (better traction, rolling resistance, etc) but better frame geometry and wheel strength of the ~1" larger wheels versus the massive 29er wheels... I am still psyched on 29er and am psyched for this Gary Fisher single speed but I think I realized why no one is building these big 29er full suspension frames and rightly so...

Dave I sort of owe it to you, I think it was in this thead or from this site that I started looking into 650b. The best part it is it shorter stays than the massive 18.2 29er stays, and is 5" right out of the box... Basically exactly what I am looking for. It is a little risky to order something so "new" and cutting edge but I am definitely a happy camper and looks like 650b is really catching on and I couldn't see how it wouldn't last... There are also good tires and rims and in general I think everyhint should work out pretty well...

Geometry-wise, details from talking about Ventana (they are still finalizing the specifics). But about 17.5 stays to fit the larger tire. They have it in a 17.2 in their prototype (which is the same as their 26" right now) but they want to move back for slightly better clearance. The frame is an XL size for me, so about 21-22" seat tube, about a high 24" (24.7-9 or so I imagine) effective top tube, 73-73.5 seat angle and a slacked out (for a larger tire) 70-70.5 degree head tube angle..

And probably a 650b specific 5" fork from White Brothers...

So I am totally pumped...

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

Excellent relevant thread about 29er chain stays and specifically 29er full suspension chain stays... http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=382329