MY DREAM BUILD… ULTRA-LIGHT "GO FAST" CAMPER.

[haven]

A couple named Ryan and Holly posted on ExPo describing their project, the Super Camper. Ryan is an engineer at a helicopter company, Holly a pro surfer. They set about designing and building a camper for the couple's Tacoma pickup. The goal was to make lengthy trips to Mexico and Central America. The material used was fiber reinforced plastic, bonded together without a frame. Here's Holly's report of the result

http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/3287-Supercamper?p=47550#post47550

So even using the lightest construction for the camper, when loaded to travel the vehicle was overweight by several hundred pounds. The lesson: Unless you limit yourself to the tent-and-bedroll style of camping, you're going to overload many small trucks. If you want a vehicle that you sleep inside of, rather than on the roof or on the ground next to the truck, buy a vehicle with a 2000 lb carrying capacity or higher. You can build a truck like that to have a supple, long travel suspension, but be prepared to spend lots of money.

And now the gossip column:

On the couple's second trip to Baja, the camper was sideswiped by a larger vehicle. The damage to camper and truck chassis was extensive. During the rebuild, Ryan installed airbags to help the vehicle ride height when loaded.

Ryan and Holly split up a couple of years after their posts to ExPo. Holly bought property in northern Nicaragua, found another guy, and had a baby. Follow Holly on Facebook here https://www.facebook.com/HollyBeckAdventures Holly's new business is guiding surfing trips for women http://surfwithamigas.com/

 

[dwh]

I have heard several individuals mention that EarthRoamer is not a "one-off" shop and they don't do custom fabrication, due to economies of scale, they produce serial campers.

I never suggested, nor implied, a one-off build. I suggested they do a feasibility study on producing a new SERIAL camper, based on a go-fast, ULTRA-LIGHT design… I just wanted to get # "001"...

Hope that puts this question to rest.

Keep in mind that this site has over 100k registered users. At any given moment, there can be 1000 or more people digging through it. All of these posts are archived and searchable. So a lot of what you'll see in thread replies will be generalized and intended not just for you, but for the thousands of others who, sooner or later, will probably have the same questions or ideas.

And not all of those people are paying close attention and will get the wrong idea, and ER could spent the next two weeks fending off phone calls about their new "Go Fast" camper that they never heard of.

 

[ZeneralGod]

An Oberaigner Six by Six Sprinter would be cool… But not very fast.

Here is an argument FOR the merits of reinventing the wheel… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nZKynpeGo

 

[Clutch]

Having spent the day in their facility as the guest of Bill and his team, I can fully understand his position here. This is not a fabricator shop where they build one-offs or anything of the sort. Because they have a year-long waiting list and a bustling pre-owned refurbishment business, deviating from their normal production routine would simply not be good business. They have a well oiled machine at work. The process of building their current offering keeps them more than busy.

They also do extensive testing and engineering before they even make minor changes to their existing platform. It would be no different if you called American Expedition Vehicles and asked them to build out a Toyota.

I have heard several individuals mention that EarthRoamer is not a "one-off" shop and they don't do custom fabrication, due to economies of scale, they produce serial campers.

I never suggested, nor implied, a one-off build. I suggested they do a feasibility study on producing a new SERIAL camper, based on a go-fast, ULTRA-LIGHT design… I just wanted to get # "001"...

Hope that puts this question to rest.

A race shop will do one offs, I put a couple links to a few in earlier posts.

But it won't be cheap, and most likely won't be perfect to the needs when everything is said and done.

Believe it was on Race Dezert a guy threw a bunch of money at a FJ Cruiser...$100K+...long travel, LS1 engine swap...all of the goodies and what not, read somewhere he later regretted doing it...and should of spent the time, money and energy traveling in something stock off the dealer floor.

If money is no object, I say go for it...otherwise. Might be better off with something that already exist...like a Sportsmobile, an XP Camper, A Tiger...etc...or toss a Four Wheel Camper on a F350, with tuned Carli suspension.

 

[proper4wd]

I have to say, "molten titanium foam" is the single most expo thing I have ever read on this forum. Would that be Snow Peak branded molten titanium foam?

 

[DiploStrat]

I appreciate the points that have been raised, and I am realizing I am going to need to hone the design criteria and get as specific as possible to achieve the goal.

Forgive me, but "Ya think?" Unless this is purely a blue sky/back of the napkin exercise, you will have to exercise some real discipline over your goals. I would agree that you want as light and strong a camper as possible, but that is only part of the issue. You mentioned a "go fast" camper. This was one of my requirements for years, especially when I was working and thus limited in my time. I designed vehicles that could travel safely at speed both on and off the asphalt. The good news is that there are many. many companies making lots of nice toys to accomplish this.

So, perhaps the Raptor is not the ideal platform. I haven't come to any conclusions yet. I DO know that I want a GO-FAST camper, something you can pass with on the highway, and something that will get you pretty much anywhere off road.

The first part of that equation is easy. My Tiger, and many other expedition vehicles, will easily hit 80 MPH or more on pavement and will soak up washboard all day long. The trick comes with your next demand that it go "pretty much anywhere off road." Depending on where you want to go, size may be a show stopper. At the very least, it is going to drive some severe compromises. Define "off road". Open deserts or tree covered mountains? I'm old school and for me "off road" has always meant the middle passage of the Sahara and that means 600 miles with no fuel. This translates to around 60 USG of the fuel of your choice. That alone probably puts you out of the 1/2 ton market.

I need Heat, wet bath with a Cassette Toilet, all tanks and plumbing must be INSIDE the camper to prevent freezing. Breville "The Smart Oven" or Panasonic Infrared Toaster Oven INSTEAD of a microwave. Butane Stove. Uni-Solar Lightweight Adhesive Solar Panels. Lithium-AIR Battery Bank. Ideally I would like to have a rooftop Rainwater Catchment System.

As they say in French, "It ain't gonna happen." At least not all of it at the same time. How long are how many folk going to live in this beast? A weekend? Easy. A week? Not hard. A month? Now we are getting interesting.

Some things to consider:

-- How long will you stay in one place and how often will you take on food/water and dump waste?

-- Heat: What temperature, what fuel, how much noise? Would you trade clothes/sleeping bags to eliminate a heater and save weight?

-- Bath: You might be able to eliminate space for a bath by simply using the middle of your camper for bathing. Sponge bath or do you want a shower of some sort? Again, how much water will you carry? It's heavy.

-- Cassette toilet: Heavy. Would you consider a porta-potty in the middle of the floor to save weight and space? (The Turtle folks made this choice.)

-- Toaster oven: Now you are REALLY sucking some power, so your battery bank size and inverter size just went through the roof to around 1500-2000w. You haven't lived until you have seen a 150A draw on your camper battery.

-- Stove: The XP Cube uses a portable gas burner. Saves space and weight over a plumbed gas stove, but now you are using expensive small gas bottles. (Are you planning on using this vehicle outside of the US? Availability of gas bottles may be an issue.

-- Solar kit: I really believe in solar for expedition campers, but there are some nasty problems. The smaller your camper, the less room you have. Go much below 400w and you are not likely to run your toaster oven. (Not really a show stopper, but an example.) I use AM Solar (http://www.amsolar.com) as a sort of a bellwether of the solar world. They are the source of the equipment on my truck, but more to the point, they are very cautious about what they sell. I notice that they have dropped all adhesive solar panels, again. And, as they lack air flow underneath, adhesive solar panels tend to be less efficient.

-- Lithium batteries: I would love them as my battery bank weighs a ton. (400 lb. actually, but close enough.) Again, AM Solar have just started offering these, but I am keeping my vinyl in the pocket for the moment based on the three year experience of these folk: http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/ Lithium is coming, but if Lithium batteries really want a 13.5v charge, then we are going to have some fun with our electrical systems. (Especially after years of pushing the charging voltages up to about 15v.)

Including "Zero SR" Electric Auxiliary Motorcycle.

You may find that the problem is not the weight of the bike, but rather the space/weight of the garage/rack. On reason for the XP Cube, vs. the regular XP Camper is that the Exploring Elements crew wanted to carry bikes 'n boats 'n other toys over the truck cab.

The bottom line is that several of us think that you may be going about this backwards in that you are starting with a vehicle choice before defining all of the essential criteria. Get your camper requirements done first and your vehicle choice will probably take care of itself. You will also find it much easier to talk to a specialty builder.

Good luck!

 

[ZeneralGod]

For the record , the REAL reason EarthRoamer won't build this for me has to do with their supplier, http://www.cfmaier.com . Arovex is a competitor's product.
I KNOW the reason and it's NOT because of "custom fabrication". I know this because they make the XV-LT in many different lengths. The shortest version of it would be fine for this project, it would just need to be made using a different, lighter weight resin "Arovex"… I would simply reduce the total "content", and "stuff" in the camper's design.

It's important to remember that the new Raptor saves 500 lbs on the aluminum body. It also has a high-strength steel frame. I believe it IS possible to get the weight of the camper down to the level of those offered by "Phoenix", but with a MUCH stronger and more weatherproof shell, etc.

"6-foot 10-inch Northern Lite floorplan for midsized pickups like the Toyota Tacoma and Ford Ranger has a dry weight of 1,050 pounds." The Northern Lite's are also built using the "boat construction" of sandwiching two fiberglass shells together, similar to EarthRoamer. So, imagine this same idea but built using a much lighter and stronger resin. Curves always create more strength than right angles.

DiploStrat, thank you for the extensive feedback. A lot to digest… Will get back to you.

 

[dwh]

but I am keeping my vinyl in the pocket for the moment based on the three year experience of these folk: http://www.technomadia.com/2015/02/living-the-lithium-lifestyle-3-5-year-lithium-rv-battery-update/ Lithium is coming, but if Lithium batteries really want a 13.5v charge, then we are going to have some fun with our electrical systems. (Especially after years of pushing the charging voltages up to about 15v.)

Man...I hadn't seen that guy's page for years. Hadn't seen his update either. Interesting info. Guess we'll be seeing some graph curves regarding lithium life cycle indexed to average temps, just as we do with lead-acid life cycles indexed to depth of discharge.

One thing I noted on his page when I looked it over years go, was that he screwed up the math. But he'd already bought the stuff by the time I saw it, so it wasn't worth mentioning. That update page shows his original error though, so I'll post it here and see who can spot the screwup :

 

[Maninga]

A couple of my thoughts on this. By go-fast, are you expecting just washboards, or sliding round corners at 60mph? Getting airborne or staying planted? How long are you wanting to go away for? Are you wanting system redundancy in there as well? Spare parts for when things break? Just how much comfort are you wanting?

So lets say you're really trying to go fast, and you're carrying 60 gallons of fuel, 40 gallons of water, you're looking at almost 1000lb of movable fluids that can't be bolted down solid. Camper panels might take up 200lb, internal fitout 200lb (toilet, sinks, all that stuff that's easy to forget about), food 100lb, batteries (lithium) 100lb, cooking gear 50lb, spare parts 200lb, personal gear 100lb, plus toys (to round things off, lets say 250lb), that's another (conservative) 1200lb. Then add winch, spare wheel carrier, other recovery gear. Over half of that will be above the tray height (I would assume flatbed build, just to fit everything in, water and batteries internally take up a lot of space), making it interesting going round corners fast. You're also at twice the payload of a Raptor. If you're jumping with it, it will all need to be packed very carefully to help prevent things from breaking.

Given you're talking about cold weather and keeping as much as possible internally, the other thing to consider is just how much space some of this takes. Water can be bulky, batteries can be bulky, keeping the camper small while maintaining a comfortable living space and all the comforts inside may lead to it growing in size, which typically means bigger trucks. It all comes down to what you're willing to compromise on.

I get the desire to go fast, just as much as I get the desire to have a camper, that's why I've got a WRX and a Canter 4x4 camper. But I'm not going to go fast in the Canter and potentially break my home (it's designed for living in, nor would I want to willingly break a 6 figure investment), just as I'm not about to live out of the WRX. Really think a Tiger or XPCamper would be a good compromise, giving a lot of what you're wanting leaving plenty left over for enjoying it.

 

[dwh]

Maybe just get an Adventure Trailer type of thing without suspension and bolt it to the Raptor. Roof top tent and all.

 

[Clutch]

Not really for cold weather, but there is a carbon fiber camper...

http://americanadventurist.com/Forum/showthread.php?960-The-James-Baroud-Carbon-Fiber-Camper

 

[Clutch]

Maybe just get an Adventure Trailer type of thing without suspension and bolt it to the Raptor. Roof top tent and all.

 

[Maninga]

Maybe just get an Adventure Trailer type of thing without suspension and bolt it to the Raptor. Roof top tent and all.

Down this route, these are well made and very well thought out.

http://www.wedgetailcampers.com.au/

 

[LovinPSDs]

I don't have any experience with them, so I couldn't tell you. There is a member on here that has a LR 130 IIRC that runs Portals...I'll try and find the link for you, perhaps he can have some answers you. Or drop RMP&O a line...think he has a set...not sure how many miles he has traveled on them.

EDIT: Here is a thread on Pirate: Member "Oilworker" is the owner of the LR, believe he is on here too.

That truck is alot different than a hopped up new 1 ton, that's for sure.. we're talkin about over 500hp and nearly 900 ft-lbs.. I wonder what portals are in that one off 6x6 Merc. That thing is a beast lol

 

[dwh]

I just tossed off that comment without really thinking it through.

Seeing it in the flesh though...DAMN! That is SEX-SEY! Now I want one.