My next step after Toyota disspointment

[Rosco862003]

A bit of history on my current situation. I used to bounce around in a lifted 2006 Impreza wagon with Grabber AT2's that would go damn near anywhere I pointed it. It was fine for a single guy and his dog, and I have slept over 30 nights in the back comfortably. However, the times have changed and I find myself with a lovely lady who has 2 children, all of which love exploring. In August we all took a weekend trip to Carolina beach where we camped on the beach, and while I didn't get stuck , there was a stretch where the entire beach had me to thank for the smell of burnt clutch. None of us are on the large side, but loaded down with gear for the weekend, an Impreza quickly reaches its limits, and I made the decision to replace it with something that had a more focused goal and approach to off road duties. I purchased a 1988 4Runner with the "bulletproof" 22re, 5 speed and of course the removable top that I had drooled over since I was a young pup in HS. I got it home and had to replace the starter and buy new tires for it, and then I was ready to take the doors and top off for some summer cruising. That lasted a week before the "bulletproof" 22RE started losing compression.. or something. I won't go into the details, but I believe the kid that had it before me tried to rebuild the engine after hydrolocking it, and didn't do as good a job as he or I thought he did when I bought it. I took it to a friend of a friend who looked it over and determined it has a bent rod. My question to the Expo community is to help provide some guidance on my next purchase and what I should look out for. I should state that I will be getting a pre purchase checkup before laying down any more cash.

As mentioned my girlfriend has 2 girls ages 4 & 7, and we've talked about adding one more down the road, which would bring the total to 5..more than the 4Runner can comfortably carry. I also recently got into whitewater kayaking and the idea of a Suburban with enough space to swallow my kayak is very appealing. I don't like the idea of having a bunch of stuff on the roof, and would prefer to stay away from a permanent rack altogether. I would also like the ability to tow as we've kicked around the idea of a camper. I have a very bad taste in my mouth for Toyotas unfortunately and have kept them off the list, as I find that their reputation demands a premium, which can sometimes be unwarranted. My vehicle choices in order of desire are as follows:

Suburban of any vintage. I would love to find a clean 3/4 ton 91, but would be happy with a 1500 or 2500 of any year truthfully. I'm leaning towards a 2500 but it seems like I'm able to find a much cleaner 1500 for the same price.
1994-2000 Montero. Preference would be SR or Winter package, but there is an emphasis on finding a clean properly RUNNING vehicle over one with a rear locker. Is the 3.5 that much better than the 3.0 where it shouldn't be considered?
1992-2002 Trooper. NO AUTOMATICS..That seems to be the achilles heel of an otherwise solid vehicle, I'll stick with the 5 speed.
1992+ Tahoe/Yukon. It doesn't have the luster as an overland vehicle as say does a 70 series Cruiser, but I'm not looking to break the bank either. Parts availability as with the Suburban makes this a strong candidate.
1st gen Expeditions for the same reason as the GM twins. Still learning more about these, as they're are all over for around $2500.
2001+ WJ with Quadra Drive. Down on space, but I've always loved the way these vehicles drive and handle both on and offroad. Add to that the ability to tow a sizable load when properly equipped, and it's hard to keep it off the list.

I'd like to stick with a 6 lug pattern so I can transfer the new tires I just got for the 4Runner, but appreciate the insight you all can provide. I'm hoping to go on a trip from Expo East in Asheville to Oklahoma and back in early October, so would likely be pulling the trigger soon.

 

[Lecoq]

I'm biased towards the WJ because I own one.

I wouldn't keep Toyota off the list because you had a bad experience with a poorly rebuilt one that's nearing 20 years old. I do however agree with you that Toyotas do have a premium price. You can get a good 1st gen Sequoia for a decent price.

 

[Stroverlander]

Since you're looking at Suburban//Yukon/Tahoe, perhaps also consider an Astro AWD. Cheap and plentiful parts, available with G80 option rear locker, plenty of room for 4-5 with gear, can swallow a whitewater kayak, 5k tow capacity, cheap/easy to lift for larger diameter tires.

 

[tarditi]

Unless you really want to do something different, I suggest going with a model that has a large base of support. Toyota, Jeep or GM, from your listed makes/models interested.
Monteros and Troopers are cool, but Isuzu is an orphan brand in the US, and Mitsubishi is about to be soon. Parts are harder to come by, aftermarket support is not as robust, and resale will be tricky at best.

Since you have the toyota, you may want to consider putting in a rebuilt engine. They are good platforms and desirable vehicles.

Full-size SUVs need some attention, too - they are fine for hauling and getting around on paved surfaces, but their comfort often comes at the expense of off-road durability unless some hardening and protection is performed. They are also pretty heavy and tend to be thirsty, so may want to plan bringing additional fuel for long trips.

Most of what you mentioned are IFS, these have a lot of considerations when lifting and outfitting with larger wheels/tires - go in prepared.

 

[Rosco862003]

As a matter of fact I inquired about an AWD Astro sitting at a friends workplace right before typing up this post, but still have yet to hear word. I'm not against that approach in the slightest. As far as after market parts availability is concerned, I'm not looking to build anything too crazy, and actually had no intentions of lifting the 4Runner at all for the very reasons you stated. I wanted to be as near as stock as possible and planned on keeping 31's or perhaps bumping up to 33x10.50's at the very most. I'm sure everyone says that, and several paychecks and months later they have a vehicle standing on 37's with F/R lockers. My issue with keeping this truck is that I didn't really get a lot of time to figure out all the ins and outs of the vehicle and what does and doesn't work properly. A perfect example is when I went to pick the Runner up on Saturday from the mechanic, I rolled the rear window up. However, when I got it back home just an hour later, the window wouldn't move. I messed with wires and checked fuses before removing the rear access panel. I understand I have a 20+ year old vehicle, but I'm hesitant to dump $2000 into a new motor without knowing what else might break on me, as I've already got about $3000 sunk into this thing. I want to be sure that my next move is the right one, because if it's not I'm pretty much tapped out. Just a bit frustrating when life throws a wrench into your plans, Oh well..There's no problems only solutions I was once told.:ylsmoke:

I should also note that my girlfriend just leased a 15' Tacoma TRD offroad package, but unfortunately mileage is limited with a lease and her commute is already rather lengthy, so I don't see too trips planned for that, but it's an option to pull a camper should the need arise I guess. So there isn't a huge push on towing capacity, but something that I would like to have if I step into a different vehicle.

 

[toylandcruiser]

So you're blaming Toyota for an engine that is almost 30 years old, was hydrolocked and rebuilt by a kid?

 

[PirateMcGee]

As a matter of fact I inquired about an AWD Astro sitting at a friends workplace right before typing up this post, but still have yet to hear word. I'm not against that approach in the slightest. As far as after market parts availability is concerned, I'm not looking to build anything too crazy, and actually had no intentions of lifting the 4Runner at all for the very reasons you stated. I wanted to be as near as stock as possible and planned on keeping 31's or perhaps bumping up to 33x10.50's at the very most. I'm sure everyone says that, and several paychecks and months later they have a vehicle standing on 37's with F/R lockers. My issue with keeping this truck is that I didn't really get a lot of time to figure out all the ins and outs of the vehicle and what does and doesn't work properly. A perfect example is when I went to pick the Runner up on Saturday from the mechanic, I rolled the rear window up. However, when I got it back home just an hour later, the window wouldn't move. I messed with wires and checked fuses before removing the rear access panel. I understand I have a 20+ year old vehicle, but I'm hesitant to dump $2000 into a new motor without knowing what else might break on me, as I've already got about $3000 sunk into this thing. I want to be sure that my next move is the right one, because if it's not I'm pretty much tapped out. Just a bit frustrating when life throws a wrench into your plans, Oh well..There's no problems only solutions I was once told.:ylsmoke:

I should also note that my girlfriend just leased a 15' Tacoma TRD offroad package, but unfortunately mileage is limited with a lease and her commute is already rather lengthy, so I don't see too trips planned for that, but it's an option to pull a camper should the need arise I guess. So there isn't a huge push on towing capacity, but something that I would like to have if I step into a different vehicle.

If she can afford to lease a 15 taco and use it for commuting make her buy a rig.....

An old 22re 1st gen 4runner isn't going to work for you. They are as much project/hobby as they are useable until you put quite a bit of time and money back into them (more than you'll get back out).

I would go 3rd gen Montero. Keep in mind anything cheap is still going to require some baselining and things will go wrong regardless of brand. Parts are easy peasy to get for Mitsubishi and they have no plans to leave the US.

 

[calicamper]

An impreza is tiny. We spent 12yrs in a Legacy which is much larger and has more load capacity then moved to a 2010 Outback again larger and more capable than the Impreza. I'd guess if you were driving an Automatic Subaru Outback you would be fine and would not be shopping around for a larger vehicle. Keep in mind anytime you buy used with little to no known history on the vehicle its a big gamble. The older the vehicle is and the more prior owners the larger the gamble gets.

Fuel prices are predicted to be staying flat to down over the next 2-3 years as the North American producers and the Middle East Oil controllers fight to see who can last the longest at rock bottom prices. So going to a larger SUV with less than great mileage won't be a big deal for a few years. but once we see fuel prices start coming up it won't be as nice.

I don't think you need a full size based on your description I think my 2010 Outback would work as would a newer 4runner, Pathfinder or Tahoe or Suburban. I would simply start with your budget and only be picky about it being a single owner with good records and history vs unknown history and multiple owners thus another possible 4runner with a bent rod.

 

[Dake21]

Ditch that toyota. If he hydrolock the engine who knows what other damage could be hidden. There might be water in the diffs as well.

What about an Xterra? If you did ok with the impreza a stock Xterra will feel overkill for the same task.
Any full size SUV have holes in the gas tank if you see what I mean.

 

[zelatore]

I'm well-known for my dislike of Toyotas and all for having fewer people drink the Toyota kool-aid.

But let's face it - the example you had is hardly a fair way to assess the whole brand. If you like the idea of a Yota don't let that example put you off.

 

[summerprophet]

Issues that I see:
Bad taste in your mouth from your 4Runner purchase.
6 lug wheels you wanna reuse on next rig
Cash is an issue.

If the wheels are Toyota wheels, there are only going to work on toyotas. The good news is the 6 lug pattern is unchanged, so you can toss me on any 6 lug Toyota if it clears the rotors.
If they are aftermarket wheels, chances are high that they are equipped for Toyota/chevy. Toyota is hub centered, Chevyi is lug centered, aftermarket usually incorporates both. (No clue about Mitsubishi or Isuzu).

If you are a tinkerer, and this rig isn't needed on a daily basis, I would seriously consider dropping in a v6 chev motor. Kits available, parts are cheap, and more power than you will likely ever need. Very likely the cheapest of all your options. The rear window is a noted problem. It will likely need to be taken care of, but then good again for another decade or so. Incidentely, that window problem exists in suburbans too.

I personally would avoid the expedition. Having worked on fords of that era, and having owned a ranger, wouldn't go there. There is a reason they are near worthless on the used market.

An older suburban is a solid rig, but don't hold your breath finding a 3/4 ton. Yes they were made, but not in any significant numbers. Also, factor in if fuel costs are going to make or break a trip. A 22r is damn near free to run compared to a chevy 454.

Also the BIGGEST factor with older vehicles, is knowing the vehicle. Your 4Runner has problems, but you know what they are. Trading across (nothing you mentioned is really trading up much) just adds more questions.

I have a 2000 tundra for instance, that I would love to trade in for a 4x4 double cab, but the fact is the truck is solid as hell. The suspension is shot, and the upholstery has a few tears, and a few rust spots need to be addressed, but I know everything about it mechanically, and I can't say how valuble that is. It has just under 200 k on the clock, and could hop in it tommorow and drive To Argentina. I know the brakes are good, seals are good, electrical is fine, steering rack is likely approaching end of useful life, but no slop yet, and the engine (Toyota 4.7) is freakishly reliable.

 

[east_tn_81]

I think a suburban is a great way to go . There are a ton of them out there and all kinds of support. You might also want to look at first gen expedition or early 2 gen. They can be affordable have lots of creature comforts have plenty of room and power to pull a camper, and there is plenty of parts for them. Good luck with your choice.

 

[BOPOH]

I'm a little bias i have Gen 2, but i think you should look into montero Gen3 with 3.8L, 7 seat, comfortable, reliable and good on gas. I think it would be perfect for what you are looking for.

 

[SDDiver5]

Look for like a 2005ish Z71 Suburban. Great family truck, lots of room and storage, capable off road, and their cheap!

As long as you can live with 10 mpg. If that.

 

[Rosco862003]

I should start by saying that I don't hate nor blame Toyotas, and understand that I made the mistake of not getting a pre-purchase inspection, I didn't properly baseline the vehicle before driving it around, and that at the end of the day I am to blame. However, I am upset that Murphy's law occurred in such a spectacular fashion in this particular situation, especially as the engine took a dump the day after I got it registered. I'm not sure if the PO hydrolocked it, and no one is certain that a bent rod is my issue, without tearing down the engine, simply a diagnosis based on everything else working as it should. It is no secret that Toyota's hold their value, and thus it's a sellers market in regards to Toyota's, and to find one in good working order is going to cost money more than I care to spend at this point. I made my list based on what I was finding in my area for under $3000, that APPEARS to be in good working order.


With that said, I started tearing into the engine (very little progress was made before MNF), but I was able to take the valve cover off and determine that the timing chain guides, which are still plastic, haven't broken and that I can rule any issues relating to that out of the equation. The way I see it is I'll take the time to learn the ins and outs on an engine that I'm led to believe is out of commission, and if I break anything, I take it to a shop and I'm right back at point A. Although I have no problem yanking the old tired lump out of the engine bay and learning a thing or two in the process, and hopefully forge a stronger connection with the truck. I frankly don't trust myself to replace an engine and get everything wired up correctly as there are a lot of plugs that aren't attached, a case of a mysterious missing O2 sensor, and a few more things that I'm sure I'm overlooking. Thus, the plan is to take the truck to a local shop who will install a rebuilt 22RE with a 2 year/ 24000 mile warranty on the engine and work done, after I take the old engine out and pressure wash the engine bay. I will also use this opportunity to replace the clutch, and be left with a truck that in all accounts is in good repair once I get it back. If anything after that goes, I think it will be rather small in comparison and I'll tackle it as the situation arises.


Car ownership in most accounts is not a solid investment and oftentimes you never get the money out that you put in. Some people have had better experiences than others speaking strictly in dollars and cents. I'll have to overlook the money spent, count it as a lesson learned in procuring a vehicle, and one in learning my way around a vehicle I plan on taking far from civilization. I appreciate the advice thus far and will be posting progress reports in regards to the engine replacement, which hopefully turns into trip reports. Cheers.
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