Need Advice: Modifications needed for hauling a camper?

[Lance990]

I'll take my own experience over a copy and paste from Wikipedia any day. Besides, the hazard light issue was fixed by 1997 and is not an issue for my truck. Regular maintenance and a transmission cooler will make any transmission last longer.

 

[NorthernWoodsman]

The only mods I have made to the truck are Rancho 9000 shocks, Happijac tie downs and Torklift Stable Loads (upper). The truck handles the camper just fine without any issues.

If she doesn't plan to do any off-roading, she might want to consider a 2WD truck with a gas motor. The payload capacity will be higher because the diesels are heavy and the 4x4 suspension weight carrying capacity will be less.

What is the brand name of the camper? If it is a Lance you can get detailed specs on size and weight from lancecamper.com.

Thanks for the tip on tie downs and I think you're the second to mention Torklift. What is Torklift exactly?

I'm pretty she isn't planning any off-roading per se, so 2wd might work. However, she will be spending time in the west potentially through the winter so I think she is leaning hard towards a 4x4. She already has her sights on a diesel as she'll be driving all over the country and is looking at the better mileage. I agree that a gasser is simpler, and now that I'm getting my head around weights, GVWR, and payload better I plan to run this all by her so she understands the differences.

First: Make sure what ever your friend decides to buy. Take it to a mechanic and have it fully checked out before purchasing......
The year range Ford she is looking for has some definite advantages but some well known problem spots as well.
If she plans to travel year round she wants an F-350 standard cab 4wd, Gas or diesel with manual hubs.
Manual transmission ( if she's comfortable with it ) If she must have an automatic be careful.
Fords of that era run an E-4-OD trans that is notorious for problems. Have it checked out .......
The super cab has the steering radios of a school bus. The standard cab is nice and tight.
The good news is: that If she decides on a diesel the 7.3 is the best that Ford ever offered. The bad news is : you can't buy good fuel for it any more.

Camper mounts and suspension:
Belly mount the camper. ( true frame mounts ) Don't mount to the bed.
The F-250 nor F-350 will need no suspension aids unless the camper is extremely heavy. Best springs in the business.
With an older rig it would probably be a good idea to replace the shocks with new gas shocks and have the rig re bushed with all new bushings. I'd have the brakes looked at as well.
Then be very picky when purchasing an old used camper.
Good luck.

I've been strongly advising her to make sure she finds a good mechanic to check out the truck prior to any purchase. I've learned my lesson there too many times. She'll probably go automatic as I don't think she is up for man handling a big truck and a manual tranny. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. As for standard cab vs. extra cab vs. crew cab, she has not made up her mind.

And yep, I recommended the 7.3 Powerstroke because of it's reputation. All trucks have pros and cons, in my opinion, you just have to figure out what will work the best for your application and deal with any shortcomings.

Great tip on the mounting of the camper. Thanks! I had forgotten about that. That's using those bars that mount to the frame and then you have chains that connect to the camper, right? I've gone over the need for shocks potentially as well as making sure the front end has been maintained or making sure it gets done before she heads out. Brakes too.

The camper is on her. I don't know enough about hardsided campers to offer much advice there. But I will talk to her about the weight issue.

As for the auto trans comment, the E40D will practically last forever with nothing in tow and just a slide in.
I currently have nearly 200k on mine, with no signs whatsoever of it giving up any time soon.
Heat is its only real enemy. So a large cooler helps, as does a temp gauge.
But buying used, make damn sure the trans gets checked out. The E40D is a 75-100k mile trans when worked as intended (towing)
And in my experience, keep it cool and it will last a LONG time. It's also more idiot proof than a manual.
Buying used this is especially important, as you never know how the PO drive and shifted the truck.

Yep, definitely pushing a mechanic inspection...on everything!

The commonly held paradigm in buying a truck camper is to decide on the camper first. That way you can get a truck that has the capacity to safely haul the camper. Thousands have made this mistake and gone to extreme lengths to rectify the situation. Coming from your mini truck/pop up paradigm, there is a large gulf between yours and a full size truck and camper. The other paradigm shift comes with how long you expect to live and work in such a rig: The longer-the larger.

There are, of course, other questions to ask before a definitive decision can be make.
1. How long does the Madame plan on living in such a rig? Full time for a year? Five years? 6 weeks? The answer makes a big difference.
2. Where is she going to overnight? Motels? RV campgrounds? City/County/State Campgrounds? In front of friends' homes? Boon docking? National Parks? Urban? Suburban?
3. How much auto tech knowledge does she have? If not much, go for the simplest version of whatever you wind up with. If she is by herself, and without further info, I would jump right in and suggest getting a used 2WD, gas motor, automatic trans, Class B. They have a quick entry to the camper part without going outside; especially helpful in the city.
4. A diesel truck has a learning curve as to maintenance and care. The romance of that smoke belching, clacking oil burner wears off quickly.
5. Remember always: FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION. Get down on paper (or your computer screen) all the must haves for RV travel. Find what fits those parameters. This is our June 2003 camp in Western British Columbia during our 9k mile round trip to AK. Note the water, power, and TV cable hookups. Our Webber BBQ is on the table ready to cook some Salmon. This is our typical footprint while traveling long distance.

I will mention to her about the camper first, truck second idea. Not sure she'll go for it, but I'll mention it. For myself, this is all research on the truck side of things as my plans are for a pop-up if and when the times comes.

My friend will be traveling for probably close to a year as the plan now stands, I think. It'll be just her at this point. She is fairly small person too. Sleeping places will run the whole spectrum I'm sure- friends, camp grounds, boon docking, farms, etc...

Her mechanic skills are limited. I know that would then lead to recommending maybe the gas motor, but again, I don't think she'll go for it really. But you know, I was thinking about the whole camper van idea as well. I don't honestly know why she chose a truck and camper for this journey. I'm just trying to help.

 

[IdaSHO]

The 1 tone has larger brakes, and a heavier frame.

Wrong and wrong.

Both 3/4 ton and 1-ton use the same chassis and brakes.

Calipers, pads, drums, and shoes, all the same parts. Right down to the part numbers.

I can post those part numbers if you really feel the need.

But they are THE SAME.

All reasons why the E4od had such a short life span before being replaced by the much more reliable 4R100.

This really shows your lack of knowledge about the E40D.

It really does.

For all intensive purposes the E40D and the 4R100 are THE SAME.

The E4OD was simply renamed to 4R100 conform to ISO standards.

Same case, same guts, same pan, slightly different programming.

The only significant difference between the two stock for stock is the torque converter.
The 4R100 has a slightly beefier TC stock. A part that is easily and often upgraded during an overhaul anyhow.

 

[NorthernWoodsman]

First, stop looking at 3/4 ton trucks and go directly to the 1 ton. I have a newer crew cab Chevy 3500 HD. Its payload is 4,200 lbs but it's rated carry at 3,158 lb camper by GM. As others have stated, the weight of hard-side campers wet and loaded with gear goes up pretty fast.

She is eying the 1-ton's now, but I really don't know that she needs one. I think an F250 should do fine. With that said, I'm still trying to pry out of her what exactly her needs are and what exactly she'll be bringing on the trip so I can help navigate the F250/350 choice a bit better.

The Ford E4OD is a four speed automatic transmission designed for rear wheel drive light and medium duty pickup trucks. The transmission is based heavily off the Ford C6 transmission which was a heavy duty three speed automatic. The E4OD is Ford’s first electronically controlled transmission. It was first introduced in the full size Bronco’s, and remained in product in the Ford E-series, F-series and Expedition through the 1998 model year. The E4OD was eventually replaced by the 4R100 transmission .
As Ford's first attempt at an e controlled transmission it was a gallant effort but suffered problems with the locking torque converter and the fact that the control circuit is shared with the emergency light and brake light circuit.
Never drive with your emergency lights flashing if you own an E4od. You will cook your torque converter.
The trans also suffers from heat build up. Mainly from shifting in and out of over drive at to low of speed . Turn it off when in town and add a good cooler.
All reasons why the E4od had such a short life span before being replaced by the much more reliable 4R100.

Cut and paste or not, there's some good info in there. A couple of people have mentioned the over heating issue. Anyone have any idea on how expensive it is to add a cooler?

 

[IdaSHO]

On a stock rig with nothing more than a slide in, a larger isnt needed, but it is advised.

Few hundred $$ at a shop will get you a good cooler installed.

Otherwise, it is a pretty straight forward task of installing it if you do it yourself.

A kit like this is all you would need. Just be sure to verify exiting trans cooler line size to match the hose diameter.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/6037...&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=COSaqt2apssCFRVsfgodH0cKbQ

 

[IdaSHO]

I'll take my own experience over a copy and paste from Wikipedia any day.

Agreed.

A bit of knowledge about the mechanical aspects goes a long way as well.

 

[boxcar1]

Wrong and wrong.

Both 3/4 ton and 1-ton use the same chassis and brakes.

Calipers, pads, drums, and shoes, all the same parts. Right down to the part numbers.

I can post those part numbers if you really feel the need.

But they are THE SAME.




This really shows your lack of knowledge about the E40D.

It really does.

For all intensive purposes the E40D and the 4R100 are THE SAME.

The E4OD was simply renamed to 4R100 conform to ISO standards.

Same case, same guts, same pan, slightly different programming.

The only significant difference between the two stock for stock is the torque converter.
The 4R100 has a slightly beefier TC stock. A part that is easily and often upgraded during an overhaul anyhow.

Sorry again While some hard parts are interchangeable ( as are often used to upgrade and a fix the E4od's problems ) the electronics are different not just programing. As are the transfer case mounting flange , bell housing diameter and the torque ratings.
The E40d ( depending on year ) will be 850 - 900 lbs . The 4R100 is a solid 1000lbs. Stock ( doesn't require parts from the E4OD as an upgrade )
It's not the same trans.
Again I'm sorry. It was and is an upgrade to the E4od , yes , the same , no.
I find it interesting and rather odd, that you get so upset when anyone has a difference of opinion with you. Seems to be a pattern..... I have read your posts.

Is there a difference between a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton other than the solid axle front end the heavier suspension and the rear axle options.
YES.
Just enough to support the added solid front axle, heavier suspension and larger rear axle options. That's kind of why It is badged as a 1 tone rather than a 3/4.
Shop time will always trump computer time.....

I'll take my own experience over a copy and paste from Wikipedia any day. Besides, the hazard light issue was fixed by 1997 and is not an issue for my truck. Regular maintenance and a transmission cooler will make any transmission last longer.

Wikipedia . Really? Try again.
So you must have a 98 and with 135,000 miles ( great mileage for the year ) your just entering the danger zone. I'll check back with you in a year or two....
But I ABSOULUTLY AGREE . Regular maintenance is a must with all transmissions. Not just the E4. I would guess that at the very least 75% of all transmission failiers can be traced back to poor maintenance and or improper use.

I guess I wouldn't have started such an uproar if rather than calling the E4OD the worst I had called it the most temperamental and service needy trans Ford has offered.

 

[Lance990]

Thanks for the tip on tie downs and I think you're the second to mention Torklift. What is Torklift exactly?

Torklift makes lots of stuff for truck campers. Here's the Stable Loads link: http://www.torklift.com/index.php/products/suspension/stableload

The upper ones are what I have on my truck. The factory frame stops weren't contacting the upper overload springs early enough to do any good, so the thicker frame stops get those upper overloads working early and help control body roll and sway better. I don't have the lowers, although they say they make some for my truck. It would require drilling a hole in my bottom leaf spring to mount them.

Torklift also makes frame-mounted camper tie-downs but I use the Happijac ones. Both are frame-mounted systems. They also make various other products.

 

[boxcar1]

I like the Torklift upper snubers. A good idea.
I wasn't aware of the need to drill the lower spring for the lower overload. Not a fun thing to have to do.
Couldn't one just replace the centering pin with a longer pin incorporating the overload into the spring pack?

 

[IdaSHO]

Sorry again While some hard parts are interchangeable ( as are often used to upgrade and a fix the E4od's problems ) the electronics are different not just programing. As are the transfer case mounting flange , bell housing diameter and the torque ratings.
The E40d ( depending on year ) will be 850 - 900 lbs . The 4R100 is a solid 1000lbs. Stock ( doesn't require parts from the E4OD as an upgrade )
It's not the same trans.

Just because the specs are slightly better does not mean it isnt the same trans.

That would be like giving each and every revision of the E4OD a different name.


The e4OD has had many revisions over the years. The final revisions before being renamed to the 4R100 being the generation we are talking about. 94.5-97 Powerstroke.


You refer to bellhousing differences. Those are not trans differences.

Those are BELLHOUSING differences to accommodate different motors.

There are many bellhousings options for just the E4OD


Still, they are the same trans.

Is there a difference between a 1 ton and a 3/4 ton other than the solid axle front end the heavier suspension and the rear axle options.

Yes, solid axle vs TTB D50 in the front. Thats already been established, and is a moot point.

From a strength aspect, there is no advantage either way.


Rear axle options???

There are NONE.

The ONLY option the 3/4 and 1-ton rear axle got was the Sterling 10.25 full float.
So what OPTIONS are you referring to???



Heavier suspension?

As in what? Both 3/4 and 1-ton received the SAME rear leaf pack.
Both 3/4 and 1-ton had the option for overloads.

As for the front end. the 1-ton actually came from the factory with LIGHTER sprung front leaf packs than the 3/4 ton.

The TTB required a heavier leaf pack than the D60.


So what heavier suspension on the F350 are you talking about?

Just enough to support the added solid front axle, heavier suspension and larger rear axle options. That's kind of why It is badged as a 1 tone rather than a 3/4.
Shop time will always trump computer time.....

Apparently not.

You have provided misinformation with regards to:

Chassis
Brake components
Suspension components
Rear axles

 

[IdaSHO]

here is the proof to back it all up, as you seem to ignore the facts.

Some parts numbers and applications for you.

All for 1994-1997 F250/350 Diesel 4x4

Diff covers, Rear leafs, Brake shoes, and brake drums

And...

Calipers, rotors, and the front leaf data to back up my post with regards to front leaf pack capacity.

 

[boxcar1]

Look by your logic both transmissions are actually C-6's , just upgraded. . Try again man . Is the 350 Chevy actually a 283? Well sure they are , look parts interchange......
Just because you own one doesn't make it the best. It just means you own one......
The 1ton has a 3000lb load advantage over the 3/4ton in your year.
But that doesn't matter. I guess it's all a communist plot to get people to spend more on a 1 tone when the 3/4 tone is exactly the same RIG..... I get your thinking now.
Conspiracy theorist....
Look, spend some time in an automotive shop. Rather than a cabinet shop. And stop believing everything you read on Pirate 4x4.
Different style springs up front , arch vs. elliptical. Different load rating rear packs . Different rear end options . I have a Dana 80 in the rear of my 1 ton. Does that make it an F-450?
No. It means I ordered it that way It's still a 1 ton.
Your lost man.
What you have is a super cab 3/4 tone Ford with a swapped out solid 60. Bin done by many farmers for many years. That doesn't make it a 1 ton. Any more than a C-6 is actually an E100.
And just because you own an E4od doesn't make it a good choice , it just means you own one.
You are beating a dead horse.
You have obviously never bin under a 1 ton and compared it to your 3/4 ton . I own both.
Your arrogance tends to make you advocate what you own, not what's best for the PO. You should check that.
Now please, stop with the hijack and get back to the point.

Sorry I have to check your last post. It's misleading.....
The spring you listed is the main spring not the entire spring pack.
Yes the Dana 60 cover gasket is the same gasket.....
And the disclaimer at the bottom of every listing explains allot.

 

[IdaSHO]

The 1ton has a 3000lb load advantage over the 3/4ton in your year.

No it doesnt.

Not if it fitting this this thread, as in a 1994-1997 F250/350 Diesel SRW 4x4 w/ a slide in

All have the same max GVWR. (we are not talking chassis cab)

Different style springs up front , arch vs. elliptical. Different load rating rear packs . Different rear end options . I have a Dana 80 in the rear of my 1 ton. Does that make it an F-450?
No. It means I ordered it that way It's still a 1 ton.

Post up your current rig. Again, if it doesnt meet fit within the context of this thread, it doesnt matter.
Is it a chassis cab?
is it dual rear end?
is it 1994-1997?

The spring you listed is the main spring not the entire spring pack.
Yes the Dana 60 cover gasket is the same gasket.....

The listing is for the entire pack.
What it does not include is the overloads, which is a different part number as it is a factory option.

Thats not a gasket for a D60 smart guy. Its a COVER, that is for the sterling rear end.
The rear end that is in EVERY 1994-1997 F250/350 Diesel SRW 4x4 from the factory

 

[Lance990]

Here's what I know even though I would like to get back to the OP's original question: I had a 1992 F250 HD that had a GVWR of 8,800 lbs. The leaf spring brackets on the rear of that truck were stamped "F350" so they were the same springs that came on an F350. It was a full floating rear axle just like the F350 but it was SRW and had a rear sway bar but did not have upper overload springs. There were F250's that weren't HD and they had a lower GVWR of 8,000 lbs. In the case of F250 being exactly the same as an F350, I can see that with an F250 HD but not a regular F250. I have never seen an F250 (OBS) with anything higher than a 8,800 lbs GVWR (maybe because the F250 was not offered in a DRW setup?). The reason I sold the 1992 F250 HD was because I was overweight on the rear tires and needed a dually to safely haul my camper. Plus, the 1997 had the factory camper package which was something I wanted as well.

Personally, I don't think this is helping the OP with his question. All this is doing is confusing the issues since no one concedes that the other one is right.

 

[Lance990]

I like the Torklift upper snubers. A good idea.
I wasn't aware of the need to drill the lower spring for the lower overload. Not a fun thing to have to do.
Couldn't one just replace the centering pin with a longer pin incorporating the overload into the spring pack?

Some of the newer trucks come with a hole already in the bottom leaf but mine doesn't have the hole for mounting the Torklift bottom Stable Load. The centering pin is too far away from the gap between the bottom spring and the others to function as designed. Perhaps my springs need to be re-indexed but I don't think so since I don't have any sag. I believe the instructions for the bottom Stable Loads mention the possibility of having to drill so they are aware of some of the springs not having this hole. Unfortunately, the upper SL rides on the front part of the upper overload so my unladen ride is quite stiff. The rear one doesn't do that. The overload springs are basically "two-stage" based on the load and the front and back part of the springs are meant to engage at different rates.

Overall, I really like the SL's. They definitely make my truck sit more level when loaded and they also help reduce "porpoising" with the truck camper loaded on uneven highways (I-90 in South Dakota is a great road for porpoising! Ask me how I know!). I didn't have a lot of roll before the SL's but I definitely don't have any now.